Australian Politics Forum

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 12948
Gender: male

Re: Zionism
Reply #60 - Dec 26^th, 2022 at 11:38am

issuevoter wrote on Dec 26^th, 2022 at 7:45am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 25^th, 2022 at 12:51pm:

issuevoter wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2022 at 10:59am:

That's democracy. However, Israel is at war, and it is no time for whimpy peacenik Leftists in government. Look what they did to Europe.

1946: much of Europe and Asia was in ruins, with 40 million dead and inestimable property damage, and the start of the nuclear age - and the age of MAD ...an excruciatingly appropriate acronym.

Far sighted people like 'Doc' Evatt (former high court judge and LW politician) proposed a UNSC minus veto, but the US and USSR demanded the veto.

1947: the UN proposed the partition of British Mandate Palestine, but the UNSC - neutered by the veto - lacked the machinery to keep the peace between the Arabs and the Jews, who have been at war ever since.

What were you saying about "wimpy peacenik Leftists"?

Israel will better defend itself with a Right Wing government.

You think so? Those extreme RW nut jobs now in Netanyahu's government will only INCREASE conflict in the occupied territories, with spillovers into Israel.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Dec 26^th, 2022 at 11:51am by thegreatdivide »

IP Logged

issuevoter

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 9200
The Great State of Mind
Gender: male

Re: Zionism
Reply #61 - Dec 26^th, 2022 at 5:42pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 26^th, 2022 at 11:38am:

issuevoter wrote on Dec 26^th, 2022 at 7:45am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 25^th, 2022 at 12:51pm:

issuevoter wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2022 at 10:59am:

That's democracy. However, Israel is at war, and it is no time for whimpy peacenik Leftists in government. Look what they did to Europe.

1946: much of Europe and Asia was in ruins, with 40 million dead and inestimable property damage, and the start of the nuclear age - and the age of MAD ...an excruciatingly appropriate acronym.

Far sighted people like 'Doc' Evatt (former high court judge and LW politician) proposed a UNSC minus veto, but the US and USSR demanded the veto.

1947: the UN proposed the partition of British Mandate Palestine, but the UNSC - neutered by the veto - lacked the machinery to keep the peace between the Arabs and the Jews, who have been at war ever since.

What were you saying about "wimpy peacenik Leftists"?

Israel will better defend itself with a Right Wing government.

You think so? Those extreme RW nut jobs now in Netanyahu's government will only INCREASE conflict in the occupied territories, with spillovers into Israel.

Hear it in BB's own words.

Back to top

No political allegiance. No philosophy. No religion.

IP Logged

Frank

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 46269
Gender: male

Re: Zionism
Reply #62 - Dec 26^th, 2022 at 6:33pm

issuevoter wrote on Dec 26^th, 2022 at 5:42pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 26^th, 2022 at 11:38am:

issuevoter wrote on Dec 26^th, 2022 at 7:45am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 25^th, 2022 at 12:51pm:

issuevoter wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2022 at 10:59am:

That's democracy. However, Israel is at war, and it is no time for whimpy peacenik Leftists in government. Look what they did to Europe.

1946: much of Europe and Asia was in ruins, with 40 million dead and inestimable property damage, and the start of the nuclear age - and the age of MAD ...an excruciatingly appropriate acronym.

Far sighted people like 'Doc' Evatt (former high court judge and LW politician) proposed a UNSC minus veto, but the US and USSR demanded the veto.

1947: the UN proposed the partition of British Mandate Palestine, but the UNSC - neutered by the veto - lacked the machinery to keep the peace between the Arabs and the Jews, who have been at war ever since.

What were you saying about "wimpy peacenik Leftists"?

Israel will better defend itself with a Right Wing government.

You think so? Those extreme RW nut jobs now in Netanyahu's government will only INCREASE conflict in the occupied territories, with spillovers into Israel.

Hear it in BB's own words.

He's good.

Can't imagine a Muslim leader speaking sensibly like this. Or European or Australian or American leader for that matter (none of them are at under a constant and imminent existential threat which makes their hypocrisy possible).

Back to top

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 12948
Gender: male

Re: Zionism
Reply #63 - Dec 27^th, 2022 at 11:14am

Frank wrote on Dec 26^th, 2022 at 6:33pm:

issuevoter wrote on Dec 26^th, 2022 at 5:42pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 26^th, 2022 at 11:38am:

issuevoter wrote on Dec 26^th, 2022 at 7:45am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 25^th, 2022 at 12:51pm:

issuevoter wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2022 at 10:59am:

That's democracy. However, Israel is at war, and it is no time for whimpy peacenik Leftists in government. Look what they did to Europe.

1946: much of Europe and Asia was in ruins, with 40 million dead and inestimable property damage, and the start of the nuclear age - and the age of MAD ...an excruciatingly appropriate acronym.

Far sighted people like 'Doc' Evatt (former high court judge and LW politician) proposed a UNSC minus veto, but the US and USSR demanded the veto.

1947: the UN proposed the partition of British Mandate Palestine, but the UNSC - neutered by the veto - lacked the machinery to keep the peace between the Arabs and the Jews, who have been at war ever since.

What were you saying about "wimpy peacenik Leftists"?

Israel will better defend itself with a Right Wing government.

You think so? Those extreme RW nut jobs now in Netanyahu's government will only INCREASE conflict in the occupied territories, with spillovers into Israel.

Hear it in BB's own words.

He's good.

Can't imagine a Muslim leader speaking sensibly like this. Or European or Australian or American leader for that matter (none of them are at under a constant and imminent existential threat which makes their hypocrisy possible).

Netanyahu: "one's existence surpasses all other considerations".

Yes, well if you proclaim a state on someone else's land, as Zionists did in 1947 on the back of the UN Palestine partition plan, you will be inviting never ending war.....

The UN should have taken over the Palestine mandate itself, and governed it until the inhabitants could be re-educated.... jews and Muslims had lived side by side for centuries, so an accommodation recognizing two peoples in one state may have been possible.

Interestingly, the UN res 181 DID propose UN administration of Jerusalem.

Then the city might have been a successful incubator of successful relations between the world's 2 largest religions, and one of its oldest...

Back to top

« Last Edit: Dec 27^th, 2022 at 11:31am by thegreatdivide »

IP Logged

issuevoter

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 9200
The Great State of Mind
Gender: male

Re: Zionism
Reply #64 - Dec 27^th, 2022 at 12:11pm

If anyone wants to reject what BB has to say, that is their choice. I am not conflicted with the bogus altruism of people like our Labor Government on this subject. Make your choice and don't pretend objectivity will save the Middle East. In 1947, Palestinians could have benefited from Jewish immigration, and they did at first, but then Islamists started to poison their minds.

In 2003, Oriana Fallaci said, "Objectivity is a hypocrisy which is sustained by the lie that truth stays in the middle. No, sir. Sometimes truth stays on one side only. We must take positions." She was talking against the background increasing Muzzlum atrocities.

Back to top

No political allegiance. No philosophy. No religion.

IP Logged

Frank

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 46269
Gender: male

Re: Zionism
Reply #65 - Dec 27^th, 2022 at 1:26pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 27^th, 2022 at 11:14am:

Frank wrote on Dec 26^th, 2022 at 6:33pm:

issuevoter wrote on Dec 26^th, 2022 at 5:42pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 26^th, 2022 at 11:38am:

issuevoter wrote on Dec 26^th, 2022 at 7:45am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 25^th, 2022 at 12:51pm:

issuevoter wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2022 at 10:59am:

That's democracy. However, Israel is at war, and it is no time for whimpy peacenik Leftists in government. Look what they did to Europe.

1946: much of Europe and Asia was in ruins, with 40 million dead and inestimable property damage, and the start of the nuclear age - and the age of MAD ...an excruciatingly appropriate acronym.

Far sighted people like 'Doc' Evatt (former high court judge and LW politician) proposed a UNSC minus veto, but the US and USSR demanded the veto.

1947: the UN proposed the partition of British Mandate Palestine, but the UNSC - neutered by the veto - lacked the machinery to keep the peace between the Arabs and the Jews, who have been at war ever since.

What were you saying about "wimpy peacenik Leftists"?

Israel will better defend itself with a Right Wing government.

You think so? Those extreme RW nut jobs now in Netanyahu's government will only INCREASE conflict in the occupied territories, with spillovers into Israel.

Hear it in BB's own words.

He's good.

Can't imagine a Muslim leader speaking sensibly like this. Or European or Australian or American leader for that matter (none of them are at under a constant and imminent existential threat which makes their hypocrisy possible).

Netanyahu: "one's existence surpasses all other considerations".

Yes, well if you proclaim a state on someone else's land, as Zionists did in 1947 on the back of the UN Palestine partition plan, you will be inviting never ending war.....

Well, the Jews were there before the Muslim Arabs.

Anyway, the Jews accepted the UN partition, the Arabs didn't. But 70 years on, the Sunni Arabs are slowly realising that
1 Israel is not going anywhere
2 the Shia Persians are a much bigger menace to them than Israel ever was or ever would be
3 Israel is the technological powerhouse of the ME and it's far more beneficial to everyone to work with Israel than against it.

Back to top

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49042 At my desk.	Re: Zionism Reply #66 - Dec 27^th, 2022 at 2:40pm thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 27^th, 2022 at 11:14am: Yes, well if you proclaim a state on someone else's land, as Zionists did in 1947 Whose land?
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged

tickleandrose

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 4013
Gender: female

Re: Zionism
Reply #67 - Dec 27^th, 2022 at 3:19pm

freediver wrote on Dec 27^th, 2022 at 2:40pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 27^th, 2022 at 11:14am:

Yes, well if you proclaim a state on someone else's land, as Zionists did in 1947

Whose land?

I believe it was Arab land, more specifically the Ottoman Empire. After WW1, and allied victory, it was the British intention then to establish a homeland for Jews, much to the resistance of the local Arabs. Of course, if you look at the history of Europe. Back in those days, nobody - ranging from England, to US, Germany to France, no one likes the Jews. So this... help was as much as trying to getting rid of them. Of course, they couldnt even care less about the Arabs.

Back to top

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 49042
At my desk.

Re: Zionism
Reply #68 - Dec 27^th, 2022 at 3:20pm

tickleandrose wrote on Dec 27^th, 2022 at 3:19pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 27^th, 2022 at 2:40pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 27^th, 2022 at 11:14am:

Yes, well if you proclaim a state on someone else's land, as Zionists did in 1947

Whose land?

I believe it was Arab land, more specifically the Ottoman Empire. After WW1, and allied victory, it was the British intention then to establish a homeland for Jews, much to the resistance of the local Arabs. Of course, if you look at the history of Europe. Back in those days, nobody - ranging from England, to US, Germany to France, no one likes the Jews. So this... help was as much as trying to getting rid of them. Of course, they couldnt even care less about the Arabs.

So it's a racist thing?

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

tickleandrose

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 4013
Gender: female

Re: Zionism
Reply #69 - Dec 27^th, 2022 at 3:46pm

freediver wrote on Dec 27^th, 2022 at 3:20pm:

tickleandrose wrote on Dec 27^th, 2022 at 3:19pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 27^th, 2022 at 2:40pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 27^th, 2022 at 11:14am:

Yes, well if you proclaim a state on someone else's land, as Zionists did in 1947

Whose land?

I believe it was Arab land, more specifically the Ottoman Empire. After WW1, and allied victory, it was the British intention then to establish a homeland for Jews, much to the resistance of the local Arabs. Of course, if you look at the history of Europe. Back in those days, nobody - ranging from England, to US, Germany to France, no one likes the Jews. So this... help was as much as trying to getting rid of them. Of course, they couldnt even care less about the Arabs.

So it's a racist thing?

I think... if you taking into account the era in early 1900s. Its really a mixture of race, religion and class. And of course geopolitics.

Back to top

IP Logged

Lisa Jones

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 39047
Sydney
Gender: female

Re: Zionism
Reply #70 - Dec 27^th, 2022 at 8:28pm

tickleandrose wrote on Dec 27^th, 2022 at 3:19pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 27^th, 2022 at 2:40pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 27^th, 2022 at 11:14am:

Yes, well if you proclaim a state on someone else's land, as Zionists did in 1947

Whose land?

I believe it was Arab land, more specifically the Ottoman Empire.

What about before that?

Also Arabs are not Ottoman. Completely different ethnic groups.

Back to top

If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

IP Logged

issuevoter Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9200 The Great State of Mind Gender:	Re: Zionism Reply #71 - Dec 27^th, 2022 at 10:03pm Isn't religion a boon to mankind?
Back to top	No political allegiance. No philosophy. No religion. IP Logged

Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Zionism Reply #72 - Dec 28^th, 2022 at 7:22am issuevoter wrote on Dec 27^th, 2022 at 10:03pm: Isn't religion a boon to mankind? What's religion got to do with it? We're discussing different ethnic groups.
Back to top	If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free. HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415) IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 49042
At my desk.

Re: Zionism
Reply #73 - Dec 28^th, 2022 at 8:37am

tickleandrose wrote on Dec 27^th, 2022 at 3:46pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 27^th, 2022 at 3:20pm:

tickleandrose wrote on Dec 27^th, 2022 at 3:19pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 27^th, 2022 at 2:40pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 27^th, 2022 at 11:14am:

Yes, well if you proclaim a state on someone else's land, as Zionists did in 1947

Whose land?

I believe it was Arab land, more specifically the Ottoman Empire. After WW1, and allied victory, it was the British intention then to establish a homeland for Jews, much to the resistance of the local Arabs. Of course, if you look at the history of Europe. Back in those days, nobody - ranging from England, to US, Germany to France, no one likes the Jews. So this... help was as much as trying to getting rid of them. Of course, they couldnt even care less about the Arabs.

So it's a racist thing?

I think... if you taking into account the era in early 1900s. Its really a mixture of race, religion and class. And of course geopolitics.

It's about religion. The Muslims cannot tolerate a "Jewish" state on "Muslim" land, even if Muslims there have more rights and freedoms than in any of the other middle eastern countries.

One of our resident Muslims even once explained that Spain belonged to Islam also, so it was inevitable that Muslims would have their glorious military victory over Spain.

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

MeisterEckhart

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 12504
Gender: male

Re: Zionism
Reply #74 - Dec 28^th, 2022 at 10:21am

tickleandrose wrote on Dec 27^th, 2022 at 3:19pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 27^th, 2022 at 2:40pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 27^th, 2022 at 11:14am:

Yes, well if you proclaim a state on someone else's land, as Zionists did in 1947

Whose land?

I believe it was Arab land, more specifically the Ottoman Empire. After WW1, and allied victory, it was the British intention then to establish a homeland for Jews, much to the resistance of the local Arabs. Of course, if you look at the history of Europe. Back in those days, nobody - ranging from England, to US, Germany to France, no one likes the Jews. So this... help was as much as trying to getting rid of them. Of course, they couldnt even care less about the Arabs.

Not to mention that Palestine in the 20s was a desert wasteland of no interest to Arabs.

With the massive influx of European Jews after WW2, the Arab states saw European Jewish mass migration as a demographic and a socio-cultural threat - European Jews had little in common with middle eastern Jews.

And prior to the end of WW2, no peoples of Christo-western states liked Jews - the Catholic church in its missals referred to them as 'the perfidious Jews'; and taking their cue from Martin Luther, the protestants despised Jews just as much.

Back to top

IP Logged