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thegreatdivide

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Re: Zionism
Reply #675 - May 13^th, 2023 at 11:02pm

freediver wrote on May 13^th, 2023 at 10:12am:

Do you think all the talk of slaughtering Jews in Islamic literature, and Muhammad's predilection for Jew slaughtering, might influence the attitudes of middle eastern Muslims to Jews in particular establishing their own state there?

(well... I suppose its my cross, to show a blind ideologue his errors):

Answer: yes, of course, fundamentalist Moslems everywhere despise 'infidels' including Jews who reject Allah; indeed even far away Indonesians are none too happy about Israel being carved out of Palestine, and even less happy about Israel refusing to comply with UN 181 and 242.

Hence the Bali bomber striking Western 'infidels' complicit in the UN partition of Palestine and creation of Israel......

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« Last Edit: May 13^th, 2023 at 11:43pm by thegreatdivide »

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49233 At my desk.	Re: Zionism Reply #676 - May 14^th, 2023 at 9:33am Quote: Answer: yes, of course, fundamentalist Moslems everywhere despise 'infidels' including Jews What about Jews in particular, on account of all the specific references to them in the Quran and Hadiths, and all the Jew slaughtering Muhammad did? Let me know if you are having difficulty understanding the question.
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issuevoter

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Re: Zionism
Reply #677 - May 14^th, 2023 at 10:22am

Quote:

Hence the Bali bomber striking Western 'infidels' complicit in the UN partition of Palestine and creation of Israel......

Given the dynamics at the time, it would not have mattered what the UN decided, Israel would have come into being. The Bali bombing was just a soft target for the same people who chopped off the heads of Indonesian school girls and tossed them into a church near Makassar. Religion, ain't it grand? Amok is a Malay word for fanatics going berserk, which happens quite regularly in Mooslim tribes. The Al Q and Islamic State outbreaks were examples.

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No political allegiance. No philosophy. No religion.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Zionism
Reply #678 - May 14^th, 2023 at 12:21pm

freediver wrote on May 14^th, 2023 at 9:33am:

Quote:

Answer: yes, of course, fundamentalist Moslems everywhere despise 'infidels' including Jews

What about Jews in particular, on account of all the specific references to them in the Quran and Hadiths, and all the Jew slaughtering Muhammad did?

No, only those Jews (and Christians) who "argue about God" and reject the Koran.

Quote:

Let me know if you are having difficulty understanding the question.

No difficulty at all; I DO know your blind "freedom" ideology renders you incapable of mediating 'just' solutions of disputes between conflicting ideologies eg as proposed in UN res. 181 and 242.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49233 At my desk.	Re: Zionism Reply #679 - May 14^th, 2023 at 12:44pm Just to be absolutely clear, you think that all of Muhammad's Jew slaughtering, and all the open hostility towards Jews in particular in the Quran and Hadith, will not influence fundamentalist Muslims to be particularly hostile towards Jews?
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Zionism
Reply #680 - May 14^th, 2023 at 1:00pm

freediver wrote on May 14^th, 2023 at 12:44pm:

Just to be absolutely clear, you think that all of Muhammad's Jew slaughtering, and all the open hostility towards Jews in particular in the Quran and Hadith,

Grossly biased version of the facts; not all Jews and Christians are infidels in the Koran, but let's continue for the sake of the argument...

Quote:

.... will not influence fundamentalist Muslims to be particularly hostile towards Jews?

Of course it will influence them, and toward all Western infidels - there were no (or few) Jewish victims in the Bali bombing.

Just as OT mythology re "The Promised Land" influenced Rabin's murderer, and fundamentalist illegal WB settlers.

"According to Islamic religious teachings, some Jews confirmed the authenticity of Muhammad’s prophethood and joined him. Most Jews, however, are condemned for both rejecting the Prophet and failing to live up to their own religious imperatives".

Your point?

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freediver

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Re: Zionism
Reply #681 - May 14^th, 2023 at 1:52pm

Quote:

Grossly biased version of the facts; not all Jews and Christians are infidels in the Koran

What makes you think that? Are you making up your own version of the Quran again?

Quote:

Of course it will influence them, and toward all Western infidels

So it will influence their opinion about Jews specifically, equal to how it influences their opinion about all infidels?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Zionism
Reply #682 - May 14^th, 2023 at 6:31pm

freediver wrote on May 14^th, 2023 at 1:52pm:

So it will influence their opinion about Jews specifically, equal to how it influences their opinion about all infidels?

you mean.... are Jews also infidels?

Ofcourse, though in the Prophet's time, Jews and Christians were mere survivors of long dead states and empires, and Israel had long since ceased to exist; whereas Muhammad was concerned with teaching his 'True Revelation' to the Arabs, at a time when Persia (Zoroastrians) and the Byzantines (Christians, ie, successors of Judaism) were bleeding one-another dry in constant warfare (which is why much of both empires fell to Islam soon after the Prophet's death).

Iow, Jews were only of interest to the Prophet because he considered the religion of their fore-fathers was an early form of the religion of the One True God - whose scripture as presented in the OT was no longer useful for the Arabs, because the OT was only directed to Jews ("whom God favoured") and whom he observed had been scattered around the world for their sins.

Your point?

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freediver

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Re: Zionism
Reply #683 - May 14^th, 2023 at 8:11pm

thegreatdivide wrote on May 14^th, 2023 at 6:31pm:

freediver wrote on May 14^th, 2023 at 1:52pm:

So it will influence their opinion about Jews specifically, equal to how it influences their opinion about all infidels?

you mean.... are Jews also infidels?

Ofcourse, though in the Prophet's time, Jews and Christians were mere survivors of long dead states and empires, and Israel had long since ceased to exist; whereas Muhammad was concerned with teaching his 'True Revelation' to the Arabs, at a time when Persia (Zoroastrians) and the Byzantines (Christians, ie, successors of Judaism) were bleeding one-another dry in constant warfare (which is why much of both empires fell to Islam soon after the Prophet's death).

Iow, Jews were only of interest to the Prophet because he considered the religion of their fore-fathers was an early form of the religion of the One True God - whose scripture as presented in the OT was no longer useful for the Arabs, because the OT was only directed to Jews ("whom God favoured") and whom he observed had been scattered around the world for their sins.

Your point?

I am still trying to get a straight answer to a simple question.

Do you think all the talk of slaughtering Jews in Islamic literature, and Muhammad's predilection for Jew slaughtering, might influence the attitudes of middle eastern Muslims to Jews in particular establishing their own state there?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 49065 Gender:	Re: Zionism Reply #684 - May 14^th, 2023 at 8:17pm Yes. The highly efficient Military might of Israel is scared of Moslems and their rocks.
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Zionism
Reply #685 - May 14^th, 2023 at 9:16pm

freediver wrote on May 14^th, 2023 at 8:11pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 14^th, 2023 at 6:31pm:

freediver wrote on May 14^th, 2023 at 1:52pm:

So it will influence their opinion about Jews specifically, equal to how it influences their opinion about all infidels?

you mean.... are Jews also infidels?

Ofcourse, though in the Prophet's time, Jews and Christians were mere survivors of long dead states and empires, and Israel had long since ceased to exist; whereas Muhammad was concerned with teaching his 'True Revelation' to the Arabs, at a time when Persia (Zoroastrians) and the Byzantines (Christians, ie, successors of Judaism) were bleeding one-another dry in constant warfare (which is why much of both empires fell to Islam soon after the Prophet's death).

Iow, Jews were only of interest to the Prophet because he considered the religion of their fore-fathers was an early form of the religion of the One True God - whose scripture as presented in the OT was no longer useful for the Arabs, because the OT was only directed to Jews ("whom God favoured") and whom he observed had been scattered around the world for their sins.

Your point?

I am still trying to get a straight answer to a simple question.

Do you think all the talk of slaughtering Jews in Islamic literature, and Muhammad's predilection for Jew slaughtering, might influence the attitudes of middle eastern Muslims to Jews in particular establishing their own state there?

Hey, of course Muhammad despised 'infidels' of whatever stripe; and therefore today his fundamentalist followers object to Isreal in particular - a Jewish State - being carved out of Palestine.

The mirror image of fundamentalist Jews illegally settling in the WB.

Your point?

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freediver

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Re: Zionism
Reply #686 - May 14^th, 2023 at 9:27pm

Quote:

Hey, of course Muhammad despised 'infidels' of whatever stripe

Are you just pretending you cannot understand the question?

Do you think all the talk of slaughtering Jews in Islamic literature, and Muhammad's predilection for Jew slaughtering, might influence the attitudes of middle eastern Muslims to Jews in particular establishing their own state there?

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wombatwoody

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Re: Zionism
Reply #687 - May 14^th, 2023 at 11:37pm

freediver wrote on May 14^th, 2023 at 9:27pm:

Quote:

Hey, of course Muhammad despised 'infidels' of whatever stripe

Are you just pretending you cannot understand the question?

Do you think all the talk of slaughtering Jews in Islamic literature, and Muhammad's predilection for Jew slaughtering, might influence the attitudes of middle eastern Muslims to Jews in particular establishing their own state there?

Hey look folks, this clown believes the expression, "say it enough times and they will believe it".

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We are benefiting from ... the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq.

Benjamin Netanyahu, quoted in Ma’ariv, 16 April 2008

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wombatwoody

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Re: Zionism
Reply #688 - May 15^th, 2023 at 1:05am

Bobby. wrote on May 9^th, 2023 at 3:20pm:

freediver wrote on May 8^th, 2023 at 7:24pm:

Does Islam condemn Jews?

Yes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Islam

Antisemitism in Islam

Antisemitism in Islam refers to scriptural and theological teachings in Islam against Jews and Judaism, and the treatment and persecution of Jews in the Muslim world.

With the rise of Islam in Arabia in the 7th century CE and its subsequent spread during the early Muslim conquests, Jews, alongside many other peoples, became subject to the rule of Islamic polities. The quality of Muslim rule varied considerably in different periods, as did the attitudes of the rulers, government officials, the clergy, and the general population towards various subjugated ethnic and religious groups, ranging from tolerance to open persecution.

Scholars have studied and debated Muslim attitudes towards Jews, as well as the treatment of Jews in Islamic thought and societies throughout the history of Islam.

There is a long read after that with 242 references.

What came before antisemitism?

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We are benefiting from ... the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq.

Benjamin Netanyahu, quoted in Ma’ariv, 16 April 2008

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freediver

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Re: Zionism
Reply #689 - May 15^th, 2023 at 6:10am

wombatwoody wrote on May 14^th, 2023 at 11:37pm:

freediver wrote on May 14^th, 2023 at 9:27pm:

Quote:

Hey, of course Muhammad despised 'infidels' of whatever stripe

Are you just pretending you cannot understand the question?

Do you think all the talk of slaughtering Jews in Islamic literature, and Muhammad's predilection for Jew slaughtering, might influence the attitudes of middle eastern Muslims to Jews in particular establishing their own state there?

Hey look folks, this clown believes the expression, "say it enough times and they will believe it".

Are you denying the Muhammad slaughtered a lot of Jews?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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