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freediver

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Re: Zionism
Reply #705 - May 20^th, 2023 at 12:56pm

Quote:

Muhammad fought (and won) against ALL 'infidels' in Arabia, including Jews.

On one occasion, a Jewish tribe of Medina surrendered to him unconditionally. He executed every adult male in the tribe. Some 800 of them, though being a Muslim he lost count. He determined which males were adults by inspecting their genitals.

Are you aware of Muhammad ever treating non-Jewish infidels the same way?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Zionism
Reply #706 - May 20^th, 2023 at 1:36pm

freediver wrote on May 20^th, 2023 at 12:56pm:

Quote:

Muhammad fought (and won) against ALL 'infidels' in Arabia, including Jews.

On one occasion, a Jewish tribe of Medina surrendered to him unconditionally. He executed every adult male in the tribe. Some 800 of them, though being a Muslim he lost count. He determined which males were adults by inspecting their genitals.

Are you aware of Muhammad ever treating non-Jewish infidels the same way?

er...the losers in all battles are "executed" in one way or another.

You cite "ONE occasion" when Muhammad slaughtered a Jewish tribe who surrended, but that doesn't change the fact he slaughtered ALL who refused the new Revelation, as the Jews obviously did, from past experiences gained by Muhammad in battle.

btw, even Jahweh authorized Jewish commanders to commit genocide, including of "sucklings"...one wonders if Muhammad himself was influenced by this evil OT narrative.

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wombatwoody

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Re: Zionism
Reply #707 - May 20^th, 2023 at 2:14pm

thegreatdivide wrote on May 17^th, 2023 at 11:10am:

Seen on TV yesterday: one of the most insane comments from a member of Netanyahu's cabinet:

"The Nakba ('catastrophe') in 1948 never happened, the Muslims voluntarily left their homes".

Word jugglery. Many fled in terror as news of the Deir Yassin massacre spread so staying put would've been tantamount to committing suicide. But of course the Israelis won't mention that.

Also seen on US tv.;

May 10, 2023

House Speaker Kevin McCarthy on Tuesday foiled Rep. Rashida Tlaib’s attempt to host an event at the Capitol with anti-Israel groups that decry the founding of the Jewish state as a “catastrophe.”

Tlaib (D-Mich), had planned to host an event with nine anti-Israel groups at the Capitol Visitor Center on Wednesday titled “Nakba 75 & the Palestinian People.”

“Nakba” — which means “catastrophe” — is the Arabic term for the events surrounding the founding of Israel.

“It’s wrong for members of Congress to traffic in anti-Semitic tropes about Israel,” McCarthy told the Washington Free Beacon, which first reported on Tlaib’s event. “As long as I’m speaker, we are going to support Israel’s right to self-determination and self-defense, unequivocally and in a bipartisan fashion.”

He's gotta say that. Otherwise he'd quickly find himself out on a limb.

Just ask former Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney:

"These Israel lobby people like pledges: they tried to force me to sign a pledge of loyalty to Israel. When I refused, it was trench warfare, hand to hand combat every day I was in the Congress, and the American people never knew that I was fighting to remain independent for them, to make real peace and to find real justice. Ever since my refusal to sign that pledge for Israel the Israel lobby has let me know that my political career was in the hangman's noose. They have the whole of the U.S. government making pledges to them!!! Unbelievable."

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We are benefiting from ... the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq.

Benjamin Netanyahu, quoted in Ma’ariv, 16 April 2008

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freediver

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Re: Zionism
Reply #708 - May 20^th, 2023 at 2:22pm

thegreatdivide wrote on May 20^th, 2023 at 1:36pm:

freediver wrote on May 20^th, 2023 at 12:56pm:

Quote:

Muhammad fought (and won) against ALL 'infidels' in Arabia, including Jews.

On one occasion, a Jewish tribe of Medina surrendered to him unconditionally. He executed every adult male in the tribe. Some 800 of them, though being a Muslim he lost count. He determined which males were adults by inspecting their genitals.

Are you aware of Muhammad ever treating non-Jewish infidels the same way?

er...the losers in all battles are "executed" in one way or another.

There was no battle. And before you come back with some idiotic retort that some other battle occurred at some time in history, I am referring to the context of Muhammad slaughtering these Jews. They did not surrender to him after losing a battle. They surrendered to him unconditionally, without a battle.

BTW, what makes you think the losers in all battles were executed?

Quote:

You cite "ONE occasion" when Muhammad slaughtered a Jewish tribe who surrended, but that doesn't change the fact he slaughtered ALL who refused the new Revelation, as the Jews obviously did, from past experiences gained by Muhammad in battle.

Also not true. Though Muhammad was more fond of slaughter than any other religious leader I can think of.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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UnSubRocky Gold Member Offline Crocodile Hunter: Origins Posts: 25008 Rockhampton Gender:	Re: Zionism Reply #709 - May 20^th, 2023 at 3:29pm
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Zionism
Reply #710 - May 20^th, 2023 at 3:36pm

freediver wrote on May 20^th, 2023 at 2:22pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 20^th, 2023 at 1:36pm:

freediver wrote on May 20^th, 2023 at 12:56pm:

Quote:

Muhammad fought (and won) against ALL 'infidels' in Arabia, including Jews.

On one occasion, a Jewish tribe of Medina surrendered to him unconditionally. He executed every adult male in the tribe. Some 800 of them, though being a Muslim he lost count. He determined which males were adults by inspecting their genitals.

Are you aware of Muhammad ever treating non-Jewish infidels the same way?

er...the losers in all battles are "executed" in one way or another.

There was no battle.

So....after previous battles in which Jews had shown themselves to be infidels, or when Jews had otherwise, if not in battle, shown themselves to be infidels.

Quote:

And before you come back with some idiotic retort that some other battle occurred at some time in history, I am referring to the context of Muhammad slaughtering these Jews.

Of course you are, you are trying to say Muhammad singled out Jews for slaughter, but you keep forgetting Jews in Arabia had already proven to Muhhamad they were infidels.

Quote:

They did not surrender to him after losing a battle. They surrendered to him unconditionally, without a battle.

No doubt because they failed to convince Muhammad of their conversion to 'the righteous path'....

Quote:

BTW, what makes you think the losers in all battles were executed?

Not only "were" but "are" - as I said; quite a bit of it in Ukraine, even.

Quote:

You cite "ONE occasion" when Muhammad slaughtered a Jewish tribe who surrended, but that doesn't change the fact he slaughtered ALL who refused the new Revelation, as the Jews obviously did, from past experiences gained by Muhammad in battle.

Also not true.

You won't (be able to) say why it is not true. Obviously in battle the slaughter continues, regardless of the combatants ethnicities/allegiances, until a victor is established.

Quote:

Though Muhammad was more fond of slaughter than any other religious leader I can think of.

You are forgetting Joshua (et al) who proudly proclaimed: "we killed everything that breathed, as commanded by the Lord God of Israel". (Joshua 10,40).

Same motivation in either case.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49094 At my desk.	Re: Zionism Reply #711 - May 20^th, 2023 at 5:07pm Quote: So....after previous battles in which Jews had shown themselves to be infidels Which battles would they be?
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thegreatdivide Gold Member Online Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 12979 Gender:	Re: Zionism Reply #712 - May 20^th, 2023 at 5:21pm freediver wrote on May 20^th, 2023 at 5:07pm: Quote: So....after previous battles in which Jews had shown themselves to be infidels Which battles would they be? The ones in Mecca, before the city accepted Islam.
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freediver

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Re: Zionism
Reply #713 - May 20^th, 2023 at 5:52pm

thegreatdivide wrote on May 20^th, 2023 at 5:21pm:

freediver wrote on May 20^th, 2023 at 5:07pm:

Quote:

So....after previous battles in which Jews had shown themselves to be infidels

Which battles would they be?

The ones in Mecca, before the city accepted Islam.

So Muhammad slaughtered this tribe of Jews after the battles in Mecca?

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Zionism
Reply #714 - May 22^nd, 2023 at 12:51pm

freediver wrote on May 20^th, 2023 at 5:52pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 20^th, 2023 at 5:21pm:

freediver wrote on May 20^th, 2023 at 5:07pm:

Quote:

So....after previous battles in which Jews had shown themselves to be infidels

Which battles would they be?

The ones in Mecca, before the city accepted Islam.

So Muhammad slaughtered this tribe of Jews after the battles in Mecca?

That's correct, as already shown: The battle of Badr was Muhammad's first battle.

You can tell us about the particular tribe you are referring to, but it doesn't matter whether before or after the surrender of Mecca to Islam; the Jews in Arabia were infidels, by definition and by their own practice since they refused to accept Islam.

Your point?

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« Last Edit: May 22^nd, 2023 at 12:57pm by thegreatdivide »

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freediver

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Re: Zionism
Reply #715 - May 22^nd, 2023 at 6:04pm

thegreatdivide wrote on May 22^nd, 2023 at 12:51pm:

freediver wrote on May 20^th, 2023 at 5:52pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 20^th, 2023 at 5:21pm:

freediver wrote on May 20^th, 2023 at 5:07pm:

Quote:

So....after previous battles in which Jews had shown themselves to be infidels

Which battles would they be?

The ones in Mecca, before the city accepted Islam.

So Muhammad slaughtered this tribe of Jews after the battles in Mecca?

That's correct,

No it isn't.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Zionism
Reply #716 - May 22^nd, 2023 at 6:27pm

freediver wrote on May 22^nd, 2023 at 6:04pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 22^nd, 2023 at 12:51pm:

freediver wrote on May 20^th, 2023 at 5:52pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 20^th, 2023 at 5:21pm:

freediver wrote on May 20^th, 2023 at 5:07pm:

Quote:

So....after previous battles in which Jews had shown themselves to be infidels

Which battles would they be?

The ones in Mecca, before the city accepted Islam.

So Muhammad slaughtered this tribe of Jews after the battles in Mecca?

That's correct,

No it isn't.

Badr - an Arabian affair - was Muhammad's 1st battle.

Show us where he attacked Jews first, before beginning his Islamic mission.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49094 At my desk.	Re: Zionism Reply #717 - May 22^nd, 2023 at 6:31pm Do you realise that the battle of Badr was named after the city near which it was fought?
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thegreatdivide Gold Member Online Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 12979 Gender:	Re: Zionism Reply #718 - May 22^nd, 2023 at 6:42pm freediver wrote on May 22^nd, 2023 at 6:31pm: Do you realise that the battle of Badr was named after the city near which it was fought? And?
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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49094 At my desk.	Re: Zionism Reply #719 - May 22^nd, 2023 at 7:33pm thegreatdivide wrote on May 22^nd, 2023 at 6:42pm: freediver wrote on May 22^nd, 2023 at 6:31pm: Do you realise that the battle of Badr was named after the city near which it was fought? And? And it is not in Mecca. Would you like me to draw you a picture?
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