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Zionism (Read 26760 times)
freediver
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Re: Zionism
Reply #795 - Jun 11th, 2023 at 4:00pm
 
Quote:
My point is that if Jews who said they accepted Allah as the One True God - ie, the God of Abraham, aka as Allah in Arabic, and if those same Jews later broke an agreement with Muhammad and chose to fight against him


Muhammad grew to hate the Jews because they refused to convert to Islam, even when he threatened to kill them if they didn't. The 'agreement' they supposedly broke had nothing to do with conversion.

Where are you getting all this BS from? Are you just making it up?
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Re: Zionism
Reply #796 - Jun 11th, 2023 at 4:10pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 11th, 2023 at 4:00pm:
Quote:
My point is that if Jews who said they accepted Allah as the One True God - ie, the God of Abraham, aka as Allah in Arabic, and if those same Jews later broke an agreement with Muhammad and chose to fight against him


The 'agreement' they supposedly broke had nothing to do with conversion.
 

But everything to with acceptance of Islam, the final revelation of the 'true' religion of all the Jewish prophets (including Jesus), before Muhammad, the 'final' prophet (of course....).  

Quote:
Where are you getting all this BS from? Are you just making it up?



So....dementia? - can't remember your own post which referred to an agreement with a certain Jewish tribe?

And as to "all this BS' - like the inconvenient fact the Koran did not forsee the recreation of Israel?



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Re: Zionism
Reply #797 - Jun 11th, 2023 at 4:25pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 11th, 2023 at 4:10pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 11th, 2023 at 4:00pm:
Quote:
My point is that if Jews who said they accepted Allah as the One True God - ie, the God of Abraham, aka as Allah in Arabic, and if those same Jews later broke an agreement with Muhammad and chose to fight against him


The 'agreement' they supposedly broke had nothing to do with conversion.
 

But everything to with acceptance of Islam, the final revelation of the 'true' religion of all the Jewish prophets (including Jesus), before Muhammad, the 'final' prophet (of course....).  


Utter crap. Where are you getting all this BS from? Are you just making it up?
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Zionism
Reply #798 - Jun 11th, 2023 at 5:04pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 11th, 2023 at 4:25pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 11th, 2023 at 4:10pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 11th, 2023 at 4:00pm:
Quote:
My point is that if Jews who said they accepted Allah as the One True God - ie, the God of Abraham, aka as Allah in Arabic, and if those same Jews later broke an agreement with Muhammad and chose to fight against him


The 'agreement' they supposedly broke had nothing to do with conversion.
 

But everything to with acceptance of Islam, the final revelation of the 'true' religion of all the Jewish prophets (including Jesus), before Muhammad, the 'final' prophet (of course....).  


Utter crap. Where are you getting all this BS from? Are you just making it up?


Back to Frauddiver's inimicable and inimitable debating style...
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freediver
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Re: Zionism
Reply #799 - Jun 11th, 2023 at 5:35pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 11th, 2023 at 5:04pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 11th, 2023 at 4:25pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 11th, 2023 at 4:10pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 11th, 2023 at 4:00pm:
Quote:
My point is that if Jews who said they accepted Allah as the One True God - ie, the God of Abraham, aka as Allah in Arabic, and if those same Jews later broke an agreement with Muhammad and chose to fight against him


The 'agreement' they supposedly broke had nothing to do with conversion.
 

But everything to with acceptance of Islam, the final revelation of the 'true' religion of all the Jewish prophets (including Jesus), before Muhammad, the 'final' prophet (of course....).  


Utter crap. Where are you getting all this BS from? Are you just making it up?


Back to Frauddiver's inimicable and inimitable debating style...


You are lying. What did the "agreement" have to do with acceptance of Islam by the Jews? Last time I asked, you could not tell us a single thing about the agreement. Are you a closet deluded Muslim?

Where are you getting all this BS from? Are you just making it up?
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Zionist nonsense & propaganda sponsored by Mossad
Reply #800 - Jun 11th, 2023 at 5:38pm
 
Zionists and antisemites are natural allies. Both have the same objectives.
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Re: Zionism
Reply #801 - Jun 11th, 2023 at 11:12pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 11th, 2023 at 2:26pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 9th, 2023 at 8:06pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 8th, 2023 at 1:27pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 7th, 2023 at 9:36pm:


I don't think anyone can. The Muslims I have asked certainly couldn't.


Yet no-one is denying an agreement WAS broken?

Quote:
I can tell you that Muslims think it is reasonable for Muhammad to rob and murder Meccan traders, then demand the Jews come to his assistance when the Meccans retaliate.


Er... I think you mean Muslims believe an agreement with  Muhammad WAS broken by Jews, in the eary days of Muhammad's mission.




The Meccans packed up and went home when they couldn't get the highway robber called Muhammad.


Which Meccans, and when? Those Jews who broke an agreement with Muhammad?
The Meccans in FDs link who wanted Muhammad for highway robbery with trade caravans.Did you read the bit on Battle of the Trench in case you missed it not really a battle


Quote:
Muhammad was cool with everything until he claimed the sky fairy told him to attack the jews.


Wrong: the "sky fairy", aka the Jewish God - "the One True God", told him to attack Jews who had previously made an agreement - and later broken. 
FDs link was pretty clear the sky fairy in this case wasn't God it was angel Gabriel. Do you comprehend what it said or are you stupid?


Quote:
The sky fairy never mentioned anything about a broken agreement that nonsense came out when trying to justify beheading 900 jewish men along with enslaving their women and children and stealing all their wealth.
 

So the linked article supplied by FD himself is 'fake news'?  There is no denial (in that article) that an agreement WAS made with a particular Jewish tribe.
What part of this agreement are they alleged to have broken?


Quote:
Muhammad used that money to buy weapons and horses.


All warriors arm their armies, via theft or taxes.
Did Jesus or any other Profits from God sell any women and children into slavery to buy weapons and horses or is this something only Muhammad did?
   

Quote:
I linked a video a while back of Imam saying Allah created Israel so the muslims would know where to find the jews. If they were scattered all over earth it would be impossible for them to follow the texts. Maybe FD could find that video i forgot which thread it's in.


That Iman was obviously talking BS, trying to explain why Allah allowed Israel to be recreated; in any case, the Koran (and Muhammad) never envisioned the recreation of Israel. 
That Imam from the middle east made a good case for Allah creating Israel.Muslims do say everything that happens is Allahs will.



Quote:
The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.

So what does that verse say?


It says the last hour (resurrection day? ) will not come until infidels (and Jews who had proved themselves to be infidels)  are elimimated from the earth. 
That verse specifically mentions jews where did you get this infidel nonsense from?Where does it mention eliminating infidels did you pluck that from your arse?

Much like the final battle in Revelations....


As for your nonsense on Muhammad killing the jews of the Banu Qurayza because they were infidels or whatever excuse you use to justify the slaughter of those jews that happened before the verse of the sword was revealed.


What does this verse mean? Sounds pretty clear to me


Quote:
Allah speaking-

And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
https://legacy.quran.com/9/5


One of the last things ex muslims go through when Islamic brainwashing has been reversed is acceptance of jews and Israel

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« Last Edit: Jun 11th, 2023 at 11:18pm by Baronvonrort »  

Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.
 
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Re: Zionism
Reply #802 - Jun 12th, 2023 at 7:13am
 
That RED text is really hard on the eyes.
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Re: Zionism
Reply #803 - Jun 12th, 2023 at 12:42pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 11th, 2023 at 5:35pm:
You are lying.


Not so; I am reading the information from your own link

And even you appear to have accepted there was an agreement with a certain jewish tribe, as written in that link.

Quote:
What did the "agreement" have to do with acceptance of Islam by the Jews?


Why would Muhammad have created an agreement with a certain tribe of Jews in Arabia, during his mission to establish Islam in polytheist Arabia?



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Re: Zionism
Reply #804 - Jun 12th, 2023 at 1:24pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 11th, 2023 at 11:12pm:
The Meccans in FDs link who wanted Muhammad for highway robbery with trade caravans.Did you read the bit on Battle of the Trench in case you missed it not really a battle


No, I read about the Jewish tribe who broke an earlier agreement with Muhammad, not not to resist his mission to establish Islam in Arabia.

Quote:
FDs link was pretty clear the sky fairy in this case wasn't God it was angel Gabriel. Do you comprehend what it said or are you stupid?


oh dear.....Gabriel speaking for the Jewish God (Allah).

Quote:
What part of this agreement are they alleged to have broken?


FD's link doesn't say, but you are making the same mistake as FD; see my previous post to FD.

Quote:
Did Jesus or any other Profits from God sell any women and children into slavery to buy weapons and horses or is this something only Muhammad did?


Jesus was a Jewish peacemaker, not a "man of war" like Moses (Genesis) - or Muhammad, after him.   

Quote:
That Imam from the middle east made a good case for Allah creating Israel.Muslims do say everything that happens is Allahs will.


The post-Koranic Imams can state 'truth' as they see it, like Popes ...the fact remains the Koran says nothing about the recreation of Israel. Muslims are understandingly upset by the carving-out of Israel from Palestine in 1947/8, regardless of any 'comment from Allah'.

Quote:
That verse specifically mentions jews where did you get this infidel nonsense from?
 

From the Koran: Jews who were true believers in God were not infidels, the rest of them who rejected Muhammad as the last prophet were infidels. 

Quote:
Where does it mention eliminating infidels did you pluck that from your arse?


In the koran.

Quote:
As for your nonsense on Muhammad killing the jews of the Banu Qurayza because they were infidels or whatever excuse you use to justify the slaughter of those jews, that happened before the verse of the sword was revealed.


So what; the Koran reveals general statements on infidels, including 'argumentative Jews'. 

Quote:
Allah speaking-


Yes; God was into directly  speaking to men with 'actual words' in those days,  especially to Moses 2 millenia earlier. Sometimes Moses had to intercede to dissuade God from eradicating the 'back-sliding' Jews, regardless of God's previous covenants to the Jews...

Quote:
And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
https://legacy.quran.com/9/5


Of course. There is only room for "One True Religion".

Quote:
One of the last things ex muslims go through when Islamic brainwashing has been reversed is acceptance of jews and Israel


Oh ...so one type of brain-washing is replaced by another type of brain-washing eg that Jesus is God.

[Obviously most of these ex-Muslims aren't converting to Judaism....]
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« Last Edit: Jun 12th, 2023 at 1:31pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
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Re: Zionism
Reply #805 - Jun 12th, 2023 at 5:16pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 12th, 2023 at 12:42pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 11th, 2023 at 5:35pm:
You are lying.


Not so; I am reading the information from your own link

And even you appear to have accepted there was an agreement with a certain jewish tribe, as written in that link.

Quote:
What did the "agreement" have to do with acceptance of Islam by the Jews?


Why would Muhammad have created an agreement with a certain tribe of Jews in Arabia, during his mission to establish Islam in polytheist Arabia?


Are you now arguing that you are right about the agreement because you lack the imagination to think of something else that Jews and Muslims might agree on?

If you made it all up, why don't you just admit it?

Where are you getting this BS from?

Quote:
Not so; I am reading the information from your own link


You are confused. Please quote it and provide the link.
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Baronvonrort
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Re: Zionism
Reply #806 - Jun 12th, 2023 at 5:53pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 12th, 2023 at 1:24pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 11th, 2023 at 11:12pm:
The Meccans in FDs link who wanted Muhammad for highway robbery with trade caravans.Did you read the bit on Battle of the Trench in case you missed it not really a battle


No, I read about the Jewish tribe who broke an earlier agreement with Muhammad, not not to resist his mission to establish Islam in Arabia.
The Banu Qurayza allowed Muhammad to spread his delusion, can you cite the agreement from jews on resisting Muhammad spreading islam?


Quote:
FDs link was pretty clear the sky fairy in this case wasn't God it was angel Gabriel. Do you comprehend what it said or are you stupid?


oh dear.....Gabriel speaking for the Jewish God (Allah).
So you agree 2 separate sky fairies?


Quote:
What part of this agreement are they alleged to have broken?


FD's link doesn't say, but you are making the same mistake as FD; see my previous post to FD.
You will have to cite this agreement, the Banu Qurayza allowed Muhammad to spread the Islam delusion so how is that breaking this alleged agreement?


Quote:
Did Jesus or any other Profits from God sell any women and children into slavery to buy weapons and horses or is this something only Muhammad did?


Jesus was a Jewish peacemaker, not a "man of war" like Moses (Genesis) - or Muhammad, after him. 
Can you cite where moses sold women and children into slavery to buy weapons and horses?
 

Quote:
That Imam from the middle east made a good case for Allah creating Israel.Muslims do say everything that happens is Allahs will.


The post-Koranic Imams can state 'truth' as they see it, like Popes ...the fact remains the Koran says nothing about the recreation of Israel. Muslims are understandingly upset by the carving-out of Israel from Palestine in 1947/8, regardless of any 'comment from Allah'.
The Quran mentions Children of Israel numerous times.https://legacy.quran.com/search?q=children+of+Israel


Quote:
That verse specifically mentions jews where did you get this infidel nonsense from?
 

From the Koran: Jews who were true believers in God were not infidels, the rest of them who rejected Muhammad as the last prophet were infidels.
I asked about the verse from the sunnah which was very clear on muslims killing jews it had nothing to do with others
 

Quote:
Where does it mention eliminating infidels did you pluck that from your arse?


In the koran.
So you deflected to something else so you could ignore a verse that was very specific on killing jews


Quote:
As for your nonsense on Muhammad killing the jews of the Banu Qurayza because they were infidels or whatever excuse you use to justify the slaughter of those jews, that happened before the verse of the sword was revealed.


So what; the Koran reveals general statements on infidels, including 'argumentative Jews'. 
A lot o jew hatred in Quran and Sunnah have you considered becoming a muslim?


Quote:
Allah speaking-


Yes; God was into directly  speaking to men with 'actual words' in those days,  especially to Moses 2 millenia earlier. Sometimes Moses had to intercede to dissuade God from eradicating the 'back-sliding' Jews, regardless of God's previous covenants to the Jews...
The Quran is the words from Allah ask any muslim about this fact


Quote:
And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
https://legacy.quran.com/9/5


Of course. There is only room for "One True Religion".
What makes you think Islam is a true religion?


Quote:
One of the last things ex muslims go through when Islamic brainwashing has been reversed is acceptance of jews and Israel


Oh ...so one type of brain-washing is replaced by another type of brain-washing eg that Jesus is God.

[Obviously most of these ex-Muslims aren't converting to Judaism....]
Ex muslims tend to see all religion as bullshit.They think some religions are far worse than others.


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Re: Zionism
Reply #807 - Jun 12th, 2023 at 7:01pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 3rd, 2023 at 5:31pm:
Which countries did Jews "live peacefully" in?


Why do you continually ignore previous posts which show this to be a historical fact?

Quote:
The majority of Jewish immigrants to Israel came from nearby Muslim countries who took the opportunity following the holocaust to get rid of their few remaining Jews, and followed it up by trying to drive them into the sea.


BS. Israeli historian Ilan Pappe looked at the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians whose lives were uprooted to make room for foreigners who would come to populate confiscated land. Most of those foreigners were Ashkenazi Jews from Eastern Europe.

Hey, learn something for a change: look up The Jews of Iraq by Naeim Giladi, an Iraqi Jew. Here's part:

'I write this article for the same reason I wrote my book: to tell the American people, and especially American Jews, that Jews from Islamic lands did not emigrate willingly to Israel; that, to force them to leave, Jews killed Jews; and that, to buy time to confiscate ever more Arab lands, Jews on numerous occasions rejected genuine peace initiatives from their Arab neighbors. I write about what the first prime minister of Israel called "cruel Zionism." I write about it because I was part of it.

'About 125,000 Jews left Iraq for Israel in the late 1940s and into 1952, most because they had been lied to and put into a panic by what I came to learn were Zionist bombs.

"I was disillusioned at what I found in the Promised Land, disillusioned personally, disillusioned at the institutionalized racism, disillusioned at what I was beginning to learn about Zionism's cruelties. The principal interest Israel had in Jews from Islamic countries was as a supply of cheap labor, especially for the farm work that was beneath the urbanized Eastern European Jews. Ben Gurion needed the "Oriental" Jews to farm the thousands of acres of land left by Palestinians who were driven out by Israeli forces in 1948.

'And I began to find out about the barbaric methods used to rid the fledgling state of as many Palestinians as possible. The world recoils today at the thought of bacteriological warfare, but Israel was probably the first to actually use it in the Middle East. In the 1948 war, Jewish forces would empty Arab villages of their populations, often by threats, sometimes by just gunning down a half-dozen unarmed Arabs as examples to the rest. To make sure the Arabs couldn't return to make a fresh life for themselves in these villages, the Israelis put typhus and dysentery bacteria into the water wells.

Uri Mileshtin, an official historian for the Israeli Defense Force, has written and spoken about the use of bacteriological agents. According to Mileshtin, Moshe Dayan, a division commander at the time, gave orders in 1948 to remove Arabs from their villages, bulldoze their homes, and render water wells unusable with typhus and dysentery bacteria.'

Quote:
Despite this, Muslims living in Israel today have more rights and freedoms than in any of the neighbouring countries. If Muslims had any concern for freedom and democracy they would be championing Israel. But they don't.


Again, you continually ignore previous posts which show Muslims living in Israel are an oppressed minority.

Repeating the same lie again and again doesn't make it true.
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We are benefiting from ... the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq.

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Re: Zionism
Reply #808 - Jun 12th, 2023 at 7:02pm
 
It's just a few days since the 8th of June, when back in 1967 on that day the US Navy intelligence ship USS Liberty was suddenly and brutally attacked on the high seas in international waters by the air and naval forces of Israel. The Israeli forces attacked with full knowledge that this was an American ship and lied about it. Survivors have been forbidden for 40 years to tell their story under oath to the American public. The USS Liberty Memorial web site tells their story and is dedicated to the memory of the 34 brave men who died.

From the 1995 (Vol 8, No 3) International Journal of Intelligence and Counterintelligence:

"The radio jamming is by itself damning evidence that the assailants knew exactly whom they were attacking. Such jamming requires intimate advance knowledge of the target being jammed, obtained by extended monitoring of its signals. And this was selective jamming; it struck Liberty's frequencies and no others. Afterward, in one of their ever changing explanations, the Israelis claimed to have learned the ship's identity when they heard its distress signals. But the attack continued for sixty-six minutes after the first distress signal, which the Israelis had jammed, was sent. Had this particular Israeli claim been true, they would have recalled the torpedo boats before they even reached the ship."
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We are benefiting from ... the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq.

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Re: Zionism
Reply #809 - Jun 12th, 2023 at 7:11pm
 
wombatwoody wrote on Jun 12th, 2023 at 7:01pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 3rd, 2023 at 5:31pm:
Which countries did Jews "live peacefully" in?


Why do you continually ignore previous posts which show this to be a historical fact?

Quote:
The majority of Jewish immigrants to Israel came from nearby Muslim countries who took the opportunity following the holocaust to get rid of their few remaining Jews, and followed it up by trying to drive them into the sea.


BS.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliyah

In three and a half years, the Jewish population of Israel, which was 650,000 at the state's founding, was more than doubled by an influx of about 688,000 immigrants.

From 1948 until the early 1970s, around 900,000 Jews from Arab lands left, fled, or were expelled from various Arab nations, of which an estimated 650,000 settled in Israel.[47] In the course of Operation Magic Carpet (1949–1950), nearly the entire community of Yemenite Jews (about 49,000) immigrated to Israel.
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