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wombatwoody

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Re: Zionism
Reply #930 - Aug 7^th, 2023 at 5:58pm

freediver wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2023 at 9:17pm:

wombatwoody wrote on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 4:50pm:

Quote:

Arab Muslims in Israel have more rights and more say in their own government than in any of the neighbouring countries.

Even if that were true, and I've shown it isn't,

How have you shown that it is not true?

You'd know if you'd been following the thread.

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We are benefiting from ... the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq.

Benjamin Netanyahu, quoted in Ma’ariv, 16 April 2008

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Zionism
Reply #931 - Aug 7^th, 2023 at 6:14pm

freediver wrote on Aug 6^th, 2023 at 6:55pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 6^th, 2023 at 2:53pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 5^th, 2023 at 11:58am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 5^th, 2023 at 11:50am:

freediver wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2023 at 3:17pm:

So why is the constitutional issues relevant to whether they should get out of the WB?

Because Israel hasn't even defined what land it occupies, in a constitution.......in an era (ie since 1946) when "the occupation of territory by force is inadmissible...."

So what?

Do you think that if they had the paperwork in order it would fix the problem?

Did you pick up your critical thinking skills in a CCP-run school?

So what? So today a protester (one of thousands on the streets) is saying "we will continue until we have secured our liberal democracy"; obviously he thinks the current RW government is planning to destroy "liberal democracy" in Israel. Enjoy your "beacon on the hill in the ME".

You mentioned the CCP; interestingly, we can compare the US with a 200 year old constition, and China with a 74 year-old one.

The former is based on the "(individual's) 'right' to pursue happiness"; while China's is based on collective well-being and the national pursuit of common prosperity.

Not surprisingly, the self-interest of the former has made the US a laughing stock - with Trump now a possibility for re-election - hence much the world is no longer willing to accept the US as global hegemon for the "rules-based" system.
Certainly China's social stability compares favourably with the US's, and the former is eradicating poverty for more people at a faster rate than any nation in history.

...Back to the Zionist state without a constitution: it doesn't even know the extent of the land available to its citizens - a condition you hilariously described as "not having its paper work in order".

[In contrast, even the US - like the UN - recognises Taiwan is part of 'One China'...and the WB is part of a proposed Palestinian state. ]

Funniest of all is a blind "freedom values" ideologue like you imagining he has "critical thinking skills".

Do you think Muslims have more rights or more say in government in any other middle eastern country?

Weren't we talking about the fact Israel doesn't have a constitution, and possible consequences including the current high court crisis:

The delay and the eventual decision on 13 June 1950 to legislate a constitution chapter by chapter, resulted primarily from the inability of different groups in Israeli society to agree on the purpose of the state, on the state's identity, and on a long-term vision.

iow, is it the "Promised Land"....or an illegal secular state.....

As to your question about Muslims in Israel - who are not responsible for Israel's current constitutional crisis: they no doubt have as much "right" to speak to government, which blacks have in Oz.

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freediver

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Re: Zionism
Reply #932 - Aug 7^th, 2023 at 7:18pm

wombatwoody wrote on Aug 7^th, 2023 at 5:58pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2023 at 9:17pm:

wombatwoody wrote on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 4:50pm:

Quote:

Arab Muslims in Israel have more rights and more say in their own government than in any of the neighbouring countries.

Even if that were true, and I've shown it isn't,

How have you shown that it is not true?

You'd know if you'd been following the thread.

I know. You haven't. You don't appear to understand what it means to compare two things. It's like you are saying your stained white rug is blacker than a black hole, because of your emotional reaction to the stain on it.

Quote:

Weren't we talking about the fact Israel doesn't have a constitution

You have made dozens of attempts to change the subject to something irrelevant.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Zionism
Reply #933 - Aug 10^th, 2023 at 11:23am

freediver wrote on Aug 7^th, 2023 at 7:18pm:

You have made dozens of attempts to change the subject to something irrelevant.

No. What is relevent is fundamentalist "Promised Land" f**kwits are illegally occupying the WB - a fact which YOU try to brush aside with the fake excuse Jews are more open to 'liberal democracy' than Muslims.

Amazingly, even an Israeli military spokesman yesterday referred to the WB settlers as 'terrorists" who are responsible for breeding a new generation of Muslim terrorists.

Notice: after answering your question about Muslims in Israel, I received no acknowledgement from you. This is why - inter alia - I'm satisfied to refer to you as 'Fraud -Diver'.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49081 At my desk.	Re: Zionism Reply #934 - Aug 10^th, 2023 at 1:55pm Quote: What is relevent is fundamentalist "Promised Land" f**kwits are illegally occupying the WB Didn't you just insist we are actually talking about whether Israel has a constitution? Do let us know when you figure it out.
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Zionism
Reply #935 - Aug 10^th, 2023 at 2:51pm

freediver wrote on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 1:55pm:

Quote:

What is relevent is fundamentalist "Promised Land" f**kwits are illegally occupying the WB

Didn't you just insist we are actually talking about whether Israel has a constitution? Do let us know when you figure it out.

No I didn't "insist" that; I drew attention to a protestor who said "this government is destroying the High Court's independence".

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/12/israel-protests-netanyahu-consti...

Israel faces an ongoing constitutional crisis — without a constitution

I accept your concession....(cough...)

And why couldn't Israel agree on a constitution in 1950?

Obviously it couldn't decide whiether it was the "Promised Land".... or a secular state with borders defined by the UN (in res. 181 and 242).

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« Last Edit: Aug 10^th, 2023 at 2:56pm by thegreatdivide »

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49081 At my desk.	Re: Zionism Reply #936 - Aug 10^th, 2023 at 3:17pm Do you think interest rates in Israel are also relevant to whether they should get out of the WB?
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thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 12973 Gender:	Re: Zionism Reply #937 - Aug 10^th, 2023 at 4:39pm freediver wrote on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 3:17pm: Do you think interest rates in Israel are also relevant to whether they should get out of the WB? No. But obviously the "Promised Land" mythology IS relevent, unlike your pathetic appeal to "liberal democracy". Waiting for your next dumb question......
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freediver

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Re: Zionism
Reply #938 - Aug 10^th, 2023 at 4:49pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 4:39pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 3:17pm:

Do you think interest rates in Israel are also relevant to whether they should get out of the WB?

No. But obviously the "Promised Land" mythology IS relevent, unlike your pathetic appeal to "liberal democracy".

Waiting for your next dumb question......

How is the constitution relevant?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Zionism
Reply #939 - Aug 10^th, 2023 at 9:36pm

freediver wrote on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 4:49pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 4:39pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 3:17pm:

Do you think interest rates in Israel are also relevant to whether they should get out of the WB?

No. But obviously the "Promised Land" mythology IS relevent, unlike your pathetic appeal to "liberal democracy".

Waiting for your next dumb question......

How is the constitution relevant?

Obviously a constitution would define the powers of the supreme court, obviating the grounds for the present protests.

And a constitution would also define the country's borders in which the constitution applied, obviating the presense of illegal settlers in the WB - settlers which an Israeli military spokesman yesteday described as "terrorists".

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/24/what-is-israel-judicial-overhaul-v...

"Israel is now facing an unprecedented constitutional crisis in which the supreme court could strike down the legislation designed to curb its powers, and the government could choose not to comply. Other expected developments include stepped-up street protests and strike action, and a refusal to report for duty by upwards of 10,000 military reservists."

Next dumb question?

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Zionism
Reply #940 - Aug 11^th, 2023 at 11:38pm

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/labor-s-defence-of-american-empire-isra...

Labor’s modest shift in position on the enduring Israel-Palestine conflict this week has, according to a sulphurous Peter Dutton, fractured the nation’s emphatically pro-Israel stance. Worse still, the opposition leader insists, the changes weren’t inspired by principle but a thinly veiled concession to the left flank of the party ahead of its national conference. The inevitable upshot, despaired The Australian’s Greg Sheridan, is the adoption of a partisan position that is “wrong on the international law, wrong on the morality of the situation and probably wrong on the politics”.

(My god - Sheridan on international law.....)

The Albanese government’s shift in position on Israel, including its recent criticism of unchecked violence, reads as a reaction to the dangers posed by the country’s slide away from democracy. As things stand, a confluence of events, beginning with the ruling coalition’s brazen attacks on the rule of law, its judicial overhaul, mass social unrest, the rise of an uncompromising religious Zionism, and a shift in unfavourable demographics, may in time give way to a dangerous theocracy.

Conclusion:

“I mean, there’s no vestige of (Oz) sovereignty left,” she added, citing the expansion of the US military presence on the continent, deepening intelligence ties among other things.

The country (Oz) has, in other words, rapidly devolved into a client state — an unedifying position for a country otherwise as advanced as ours, and one Paul Keating sounded a warning against years ago.

In Broinowski’s view, and as strange — even repulsive — as it may sound, the only way these developments seem liable to fall to the wayside is if Donald Trump is reelected next year: “It’s probably the one silver lining, the one little sort of glimmer of hope, that a Trump presidency might say of AUKUS and the deepening alliance, ‘this is rubbish’.”

“That would get us off this dangerous path.”

!.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Zionism
Reply #941 - Aug 13^th, 2023 at 8:05am

Dissension among Zionists in Oz:

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/australian-zionist-groups-at-odds-over-crit...

“Presented as being on behalf of the ‘Jewish community’, without discussion with the ZFA’s progressive constituent base, [the statement] severely undermines the organisation’s claim to be representative of the full spectrum of views in the Jewish-Zionist community,” said the letter, obtained by Guardian Australia.

“Criticising the Australian government for upholding its obligations under international law is politically naive and morally wrong.”

The letter said international law was clear that the territories captured by Israel in the six-day war in 1967 were occupied – and that civilian Israeli settlements on the land were considered illegal.

But the letter said the Albanese government had clearly stated it remained a friend of Israel – and said it had “done an admirable job of separating legal claims of sovereignty by Israel from the religious, historical, national and cultural claims of the Jewish people”.

Sheridan, and the other cultural warriors at The Oz, take note.

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freediver

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Re: Zionism
Reply #942 - Aug 14^th, 2023 at 9:11am

thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 9:36pm:

And a constitution would also define the country's borders in which the constitution applied, obviating the presense of illegal settlers in the WB - settlers which an Israeli military spokesman yesteday described as "terrorists".

Who told you that?

Would you mind pointing out where Australia's, or America's constitution defines their borders?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Zionism
Reply #943 - Aug 14^th, 2023 at 11:25am

freediver wrote on Aug 14^th, 2023 at 9:11am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 9:36pm:

And a constitution would also define the country's borders in which the constitution applied, obviating the presense of illegal settlers in the WB - settlers which an Israeli military spokesman yesteday described as "terrorists".

Who told you that?

Would you mind pointing out where Australia's, or America's constitution defines their borders?

Er ...Oz is an island......and the US constitution applied to the already existing 13 colonies.

You keep forgetting Israel's borders were determined by the UN, and a constitution should have recognized that fact.

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freediver

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Re: Zionism
Reply #944 - Aug 14^th, 2023 at 11:37am

thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 14^th, 2023 at 11:25am:

freediver wrote on Aug 14^th, 2023 at 9:11am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 9:36pm:

And a constitution would also define the country's borders in which the constitution applied, obviating the presense of illegal settlers in the WB - settlers which an Israeli military spokesman yesteday described as "terrorists".

Who told you that?

Would you mind pointing out where Australia's, or America's constitution defines their borders?

Er ...Oz is an island......and the US constitution applied to the already existing 13 colonies.

You keep forgetting Israel's borders were determined by the UN, and a constitution should have recognized that fact.

Are you saying that those constitutions did not define the country's borders?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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