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Zionism (Read 26565 times)
thegreatdivide
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Re: Zionism
Reply #945 - Aug 14th, 2023 at 11:44am
 
freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 11:37am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 11:25am:
freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 9:11am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 10th, 2023 at 9:36pm:
And a constitution would also define the country's borders in which the constitution applied, obviating the presense of illegal settlers in the WB - settlers which an Israeli military spokesman yesteday described as "terrorists". 


Who told you that?


Would you mind pointing out where Australia's, or America's constitution defines their borders?


Er ...Oz is an island......and the US constitution applied to the already existing 13 colonies. 

You keep forgetting Israel's borders were determined by the UN, and a constitution should have recognized that fact.


Are you saying that those constitutions did not define the country's borders?


The borders were already defined for the writers of their respective  constitutions.

Whereas Israel and the Arab states refused the UN designated borders for Israel and Palestine (in res 181 and 242). 

Palstinians have at last agreed to the UN borders, Israel is still resisting and now its extreme rightwing government wants all of Palestine. 
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freediver
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Re: Zionism
Reply #946 - Aug 14th, 2023 at 1:10pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 11:44am:
freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 11:37am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 11:25am:
freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 9:11am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 10th, 2023 at 9:36pm:
And a constitution would also define the country's borders in which the constitution applied, obviating the presense of illegal settlers in the WB - settlers which an Israeli military spokesman yesteday described as "terrorists". 


Who told you that?


Would you mind pointing out where Australia's, or America's constitution defines their borders?


Er ...Oz is an island......and the US constitution applied to the already existing 13 colonies. 

You keep forgetting Israel's borders were determined by the UN, and a constitution should have recognized that fact.


Are you saying that those constitutions did not define the country's borders?


The borders were already defined for the writers of their respective  constitutions.

Whereas Israel and the Arab states refused the UN designated borders for Israel and Palestine (in res 181 and 242). 

Palstinians have at last agreed to the UN borders, Israel is still resisting and now its extreme rightwing government wants all of Palestine. 


Can you give an example of any country with its borders defined in the constitution?
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Zionism
Reply #947 - Aug 14th, 2023 at 2:06pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 1:10pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 11:44am:
freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 11:37am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 11:25am:
freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 9:11am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 10th, 2023 at 9:36pm:
And a constitution would also define the country's borders in which the constitution applied, obviating the presense of illegal settlers in the WB - settlers which an Israeli military spokesman yesteday described as "terrorists". 


Who told you that?


Would you mind pointing out where Australia's, or America's constitution defines their borders?


Er ...Oz is an island......and the US constitution applied to the already existing 13 colonies. 

You keep forgetting Israel's borders were determined by the UN, and a constitution should have recognized that fact.


Are you saying that those constitutions did not define the country's borders?


The borders were already defined for the writers of their respective  constitutions.

Whereas Israel and the Arab states refused the UN designated borders for Israel and Palestine (in res 181 and 242). 

Palstinians have at last agreed to the UN borders, Israel is still resisting and now its extreme rightwing government wants all of Palestine. 


Can you give an example of any country with its borders defined in the constitution?


Countries write constitutions when they know who they are, what land  they possess, and how they (the nation) wants to govern itself, iow,  the land the nation occupies is a given, and therefore doesn't need to be specified in the constitution.

Israel doesn't have a constitution BECAUSE - after the creation of the UN Charter in 1946 - it's an illegal occupying state.
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freediver
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Re: Zionism
Reply #948 - Aug 14th, 2023 at 2:53pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 2:06pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 1:10pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 11:44am:
freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 11:37am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 11:25am:
freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 9:11am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 10th, 2023 at 9:36pm:
And a constitution would also define the country's borders in which the constitution applied, obviating the presense of illegal settlers in the WB - settlers which an Israeli military spokesman yesteday described as "terrorists". 


Who told you that?


Would you mind pointing out where Australia's, or America's constitution defines their borders?


Er ...Oz is an island......and the US constitution applied to the already existing 13 colonies. 

You keep forgetting Israel's borders were determined by the UN, and a constitution should have recognized that fact.


Are you saying that those constitutions did not define the country's borders?


The borders were already defined for the writers of their respective  constitutions.

Whereas Israel and the Arab states refused the UN designated borders for Israel and Palestine (in res 181 and 242). 

Palstinians have at last agreed to the UN borders, Israel is still resisting and now its extreme rightwing government wants all of Palestine. 


Can you give an example of any country with its borders defined in the constitution?


Countries write constitutions when they know who they are, what land  they possess, and how they (the nation) wants to govern itself, iow,  the land the nation occupies is a given, and therefore doesn't need to be specified in the constitution.

Israel doesn't have a constitution BECAUSE - after the creation of the UN Charter in 1946 - it's an illegal occupying state.


So how would an Israeli constitution define the country's borders in a way that "obviates" the presence of illegal settlers?
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Zionism
Reply #949 - Aug 14th, 2023 at 6:15pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 2:53pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 2:06pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 1:10pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 11:44am:
freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 11:37am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 11:25am:
freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 9:11am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 10th, 2023 at 9:36pm:
And a constitution would also define the country's borders in which the constitution applied, obviating the presense of illegal settlers in the WB - settlers which an Israeli military spokesman yesteday described as "terrorists". 


Who told you that?


Would you mind pointing out where Australia's, or America's constitution defines their borders?


Er ...Oz is an island......and the US constitution applied to the already existing 13 colonies. 

You keep forgetting Israel's borders were determined by the UN, and a constitution should have recognized that fact.


Are you saying that those constitutions did not define the country's borders?


The borders were already defined for the writers of their respective  constitutions.

Whereas Israel and the Arab states refused the UN designated borders for Israel and Palestine (in res 181 and 242). 

Palstinians have at last agreed to the UN borders, Israel is still resisting and now its extreme rightwing government wants all of Palestine. 


Can you give an example of any country with its borders defined in the constitution?


Countries write constitutions when they know who they are, what land  they possess, and how they (the nation) wants to govern itself, iow,  the land the nation occupies is a given, and therefore doesn't need to be specified in the constitution.

Israel doesn't have a constitution BECAUSE - after the creation of the UN Charter in 1946 - it's an illegal occupying state.


So how would an Israeli constitution define the country's borders in a way that "obviates" the presence of illegal settlers?


1. By accepting UN res. 181 and 242 (google for details).

2. By defining the role of Judaism - specifically the OT -  in the modern Israeli state....ouch, I can hear the fundies screaming from here.....
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« Last Edit: Aug 14th, 2023 at 6:24pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
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wombatwoody
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Re: Zionism
Reply #950 - Aug 14th, 2023 at 7:23pm
 
Ex-IDF general likens military control of West Bank to Nazi Germany


Times of Israel – Aug 13, 2023

A former IDF general argued that Israel’s control of the West Bank has similarities to discriminatory policies under Nazi Germany, and expressed fear that soldiers will not be motivated to defend the country if the coalition succeeds in shackling the judiciary.

Amiram Levin, who headed the IDF Northern Command, commanded the elite Sayeret Matkal unit and served as deputy director of the Mossad spy agency, told Kan radio on Sunday morning that the military is not only suffering harm to its preparedness because of reservists’ threats and refusals to serve amid the government’s judicial overhaul, but is also “rotten to its core” due to Iarael’s ongoing presence in the West Bank.

“It stands on the side, looks at the rioting settlers, and begins to be a partner in war crimes,” Levin told the public broadcaster. “It’s 10 times worse than the issue of [military] readiness… and I say honestly, I am not angry at the Palestinians, I am angry at us. We are killing ourselves from the inside.”

Recent months have seen a rise in settler violence, with the United Nations earlier this month reporting close to 600 attacks on Palestinians and their property over the past six months. The Israeli defense establishment recorded similar numbers during that period.

According to official data provided to The Times of Israel, there were 680 incidents of stone-throwing or assault of Palestinians by settlers in the first six months of 2023, compared to 950 in all of 2022.

The interviewer asked Levin if he agreed with a May 2016 speech by former Meretz MK Yair Golan, who was IDF deputy chief of staff at the time, in which he said that processes in Israel were similar to some in Europe in the years leading up to the Holocaust.

“We find it difficult to say it, but that’s the truth,” Levin responded. “Look around Hebron, look at streets, streets that Arabs can’t use, only Jews, that’s exactly what happened in countries like that.”

Pressed on whether he saw specific similarities with Nazi Germany, Levin said: “Of course. It hurts, it’s not nice, but that’s the reality. It’s better to deal with it, even if it is hard, than to ignore it.”

Levin also assailed Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s appointment of “draft dodger” cabinet members such as National Security Minister Itamar Ben Gvir, who was not accepted for mandatory military service by the IDF because of his extremist activities.

The prime minister is being exploited by “a messianic group of criminals, former ‘hilltop youth,’ people who don’t even know what democracy is,” he charged, referring to extremist settler activists.

“They come from areas where there is no democracy, from the West Bank, where for 56 years there hasn’t been democracy there,” said Levin. “There is absolute apartheid.”

While the challenge to the IDF’s preparedness amid a widespread reservist protest movement is “disturbing,” Levin said that “motivation and unity” is more important.

He argued that the military managed to overcome its lack of readiness for the 1973 Yom Kippur War when Arab armies launched a surprise attack, due to soldiers’ will to fight for the country. “This is not done for a dictator,” he said, adding that soldiers have to believe in the country in order to fight for it.

“And today there is a rupture. People don’t believe that a country under a dictatorship will survive. And even if it does, it’s not a place good people want to live in. Therefore, we need to be concerned a lot more about the coup and this awful group,” he said, referencing the coalition’s judicial overhaul legislation.

Levin also spoke on Saturday night at the central anti-overhaul rally in Tel Aviv, where he burst into tears while appealing to Likud ministers to intervene and stop the overhaul.

In response to Levin’s radio interview, Likud MK Danny Danon, a member of the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, expressed disappointment that people who had contributed to the state in the past would express such sentiments, saying that “their minds get a little confused.”

“Anyone who compares us to Germany or the Nazi regime needs to be examined,” Danon said.

In response to Levin’s comments, Ben Gvir’s office said in a statement that the former general “knows well that Ben Gvir was not drafted into the army because of political pressure from leftists.”

The chief of the Israeli Air Force, Maj. Gen. Tomer Bar, met Friday with dozens of reservist pilots who have declared they would no longer show up for volunteer duty to protest the overhaul, warning them that the state of the force’s readiness was “worsening.”

An unconfirmed report by Channel 12 news added that Bar told pilots: “Instead of preparing for war, I’m dealing only with this.”

As the coalition advanced the first major piece of related legislation last month, more than 10,000 reservists who frequently show up for duty on a voluntary basis said they would no longer do so.
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We are benefiting from ... the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq.

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freediver
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Re: Zionism
Reply #951 - Aug 14th, 2023 at 8:34pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 6:15pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 2:53pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 2:06pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 1:10pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 11:44am:
freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 11:37am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 11:25am:
freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 9:11am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 10th, 2023 at 9:36pm:
And a constitution would also define the country's borders in which the constitution applied, obviating the presense of illegal settlers in the WB - settlers which an Israeli military spokesman yesteday described as "terrorists". 


Who told you that?


Would you mind pointing out where Australia's, or America's constitution defines their borders?


Er ...Oz is an island......and the US constitution applied to the already existing 13 colonies. 

You keep forgetting Israel's borders were determined by the UN, and a constitution should have recognized that fact.


Are you saying that those constitutions did not define the country's borders?


The borders were already defined for the writers of their respective  constitutions.

Whereas Israel and the Arab states refused the UN designated borders for Israel and Palestine (in res 181 and 242). 

Palstinians have at last agreed to the UN borders, Israel is still resisting and now its extreme rightwing government wants all of Palestine. 


Can you give an example of any country with its borders defined in the constitution?


Countries write constitutions when they know who they are, what land  they possess, and how they (the nation) wants to govern itself, iow,  the land the nation occupies is a given, and therefore doesn't need to be specified in the constitution.

Israel doesn't have a constitution BECAUSE - after the creation of the UN Charter in 1946 - it's an illegal occupying state.


So how would an Israeli constitution define the country's borders in a way that "obviates" the presence of illegal settlers?


1. By accepting UN res. 181 and 242 (google for details).

2. By defining the role of Judaism - specifically the OT -  in the modern Israeli state....ouch, I can hear the fundies screaming from here.....


Why would a constitution necessarily do either of those?
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Zionism
Reply #952 - Aug 17th, 2023 at 6:17pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 8:34pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 6:15pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 2:53pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 2:06pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 1:10pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 11:44am:
freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 11:37am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 11:25am:
freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 9:11am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 10th, 2023 at 9:36pm:
And a constitution would also define the country's borders in which the constitution applied, obviating the presense of illegal settlers in the WB - settlers which an Israeli military spokesman yesteday described as "terrorists". 


Who told you that?


Would you mind pointing out where Australia's, or America's constitution defines their borders?


Er ...Oz is an island......and the US constitution applied to the already existing 13 colonies. 

You keep forgetting Israel's borders were determined by the UN, and a constitution should have recognized that fact.


Are you saying that those constitutions did not define the country's borders?


The borders were already defined for the writers of their respective  constitutions.

Whereas Israel and the Arab states refused the UN designated borders for Israel and Palestine (in res 181 and 242). 

Palstinians have at last agreed to the UN borders, Israel is still resisting and now its extreme rightwing government wants all of Palestine. 


Can you give an example of any country with its borders defined in the constitution?


Countries write constitutions when they know who they are, what land  they possess, and how they (the nation) wants to govern itself, iow,  the land the nation occupies is a given, and therefore doesn't need to be specified in the constitution.

Israel doesn't have a constitution BECAUSE - after the creation of the UN Charter in 1946 - it's an illegal occupying state.


So how would an Israeli constitution define the country's borders in a way that "obviates" the presence of illegal settlers?


1. By accepting UN res. 181 and 242 (google for details).

2. By defining the role of Judaism - specifically the OT -  in the modern Israeli state....ouch, I can hear the fundies screaming from here.....


Why would a constitution necessarily do either of those?


A constitution defines the foundation on which rule of law is based, in the particular nation.
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freediver
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Re: Zionism
Reply #953 - Aug 17th, 2023 at 7:00pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 17th, 2023 at 6:17pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 8:34pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 6:15pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 2:53pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 2:06pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 1:10pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 11:44am:
freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 11:37am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 11:25am:
freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 9:11am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 10th, 2023 at 9:36pm:
And a constitution would also define the country's borders in which the constitution applied, obviating the presense of illegal settlers in the WB - settlers which an Israeli military spokesman yesteday described as "terrorists". 


Who told you that?


Would you mind pointing out where Australia's, or America's constitution defines their borders?


Er ...Oz is an island......and the US constitution applied to the already existing 13 colonies. 

You keep forgetting Israel's borders were determined by the UN, and a constitution should have recognized that fact.


Are you saying that those constitutions did not define the country's borders?


The borders were already defined for the writers of their respective  constitutions.

Whereas Israel and the Arab states refused the UN designated borders for Israel and Palestine (in res 181 and 242). 

Palstinians have at last agreed to the UN borders, Israel is still resisting and now its extreme rightwing government wants all of Palestine. 


Can you give an example of any country with its borders defined in the constitution?


Countries write constitutions when they know who they are, what land  they possess, and how they (the nation) wants to govern itself, iow,  the land the nation occupies is a given, and therefore doesn't need to be specified in the constitution.

Israel doesn't have a constitution BECAUSE - after the creation of the UN Charter in 1946 - it's an illegal occupying state.


So how would an Israeli constitution define the country's borders in a way that "obviates" the presence of illegal settlers?


1. By accepting UN res. 181 and 242 (google for details).

2. By defining the role of Judaism - specifically the OT -  in the modern Israeli state....ouch, I can hear the fundies screaming from here.....


Why would a constitution necessarily do either of those?


A constitution defines the foundation on which rule of law is based, in the particular nation.


So how would that define the country's borders?

Can you give an example of any country whose borders are defined in its constitution?

Are you having difficulty following your own train of thought here?
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Re: Zionism
Reply #954 - Aug 18th, 2023 at 8:35pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 7th, 2023 at 7:18pm:
I know.


Then why did you ask that?
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We are benefiting from ... the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq.

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Re: Zionism
Reply #955 - Aug 18th, 2023 at 9:52pm
 
What are you talking about?
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Zionism
Reply #956 - Aug 19th, 2023 at 4:19pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 17th, 2023 at 7:00pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 17th, 2023 at 6:17pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 8:34pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 6:15pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 2:53pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 2:06pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 1:10pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 11:44am:
freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 11:37am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 11:25am:
freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2023 at 9:11am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 10th, 2023 at 9:36pm:
And a constitution would also define the country's borders in which the constitution applied, obviating the presense of illegal settlers in the WB - settlers which an Israeli military spokesman yesteday described as "terrorists". 


Who told you that?


Would you mind pointing out where Australia's, or America's constitution defines their borders?


Er ...Oz is an island......and the US constitution applied to the already existing 13 colonies. 

You keep forgetting Israel's borders were determined by the UN, and a constitution should have recognized that fact.


Are you saying that those constitutions did not define the country's borders?


The borders were already defined for the writers of their respective  constitutions.

Whereas Israel and the Arab states refused the UN designated borders for Israel and Palestine (in res 181 and 242). 

Palstinians have at last agreed to the UN borders, Israel is still resisting and now its extreme rightwing government wants all of Palestine. 


Can you give an example of any country with its borders defined in the constitution?


Countries write constitutions when they know who they are, what land  they possess, and how they (the nation) wants to govern itself, iow,  the land the nation occupies is a given, and therefore doesn't need to be specified in the constitution.

Israel doesn't have a constitution BECAUSE - after the creation of the UN Charter in 1946 - it's an illegal occupying state.


So how would an Israeli constitution define the country's borders in a way that "obviates" the presence of illegal settlers?


1. By accepting UN res. 181 and 242 (google for details).

2. By defining the role of Judaism - specifically the OT -  in the modern Israeli state....ouch, I can hear the fundies screaming from here.....


Why would a constitution necessarily do either of those?


A constitution defines the foundation on which rule of law is based, in the particular nation.


So how would that define the country's borders?


The borders need to be defined BEFORE a constitution outling the institutions required for the rule law can be written.

Quote:
Can you give an example of any country whose borders are defined in its constitution?


Irrelevent.  A country which doesn't know/recognise its own land area is headed for disputes with its neighbours...and the international community.   

Quote:
Are you having difficulty following your own train of thought here?


No; I'm having difficulty overcoming your reptilian brain driven concept of "freedom" over-riding rule of law. 

In Netanyahu's case, he wants to protect himself from rule of law, by disarming the Supreme Court... as well as conniving with the extreme right who want all of Palestine.
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Re: Zionism
Reply #957 - Aug 19th, 2023 at 4:31pm
 
Today, though, being anti-Israel has almost become a celebrity cause du jour among certain sections of the media, academia and the political far left.

This hatred, this anti-Israel sentiment, is impossible to miss. The most recent case, courtesy of our government, was the decision to revert to describing East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza as “occupied Palestinian territories”. Going by the government’s logic, if we’re to revert to the pre-1967 status quo then Jordan gets the West Bank and Egypt can swan back into Gaza. It is embarrassing in its ­historical illiteracy.

So, too, is the decision not to recognise Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Can you imagine if a foreign entity said to the Australian government, look, we don’t believe Canberra should be recognised as Australia’s capital city (not an unreasonable view, to be honest). From now on, we are going to recognise Melbourne. It’s ludicrous, obviously, but here’s Australia deigning to tell Israel where it’s capital should be.

Some of you will assume I’m suggesting Israel and it’s current Knesset are beyond reproach. Far from it. Having recently spent time in Israel I saw and heard first hand what Israelis think of this government. Israelis of all faiths and backgrounds are making their ­voices heard democratically, and in growing number.

What I am challenging here is the hypocrisy of a viewpoint that conveniently ignores the obvious, as well as the entrenched ideological groupthink that has spread unchallenged through government, academia and sections of the media.

For example, the federal government’s decision was welcomed warmly by the Palestinian Authority. This is the same authority that spends $300m annually on various payments and financial incentives for suicide bombers, terrorists and their families under the so-called Pay for Slay policy.

This institutionalised commitment to violent acts of terror is conveniently ignored by government and academia. When has our government challenged this abhorrent practice? They defend it with their silence. What a terrible sin of omission.

Not two months ago, I, along with others, walked the streets of the Am’ari Refugee Camp in Ramallah, which was built in 1947 under Jordanian occupation. Guided by a local Fatah leader, I wondered where the hell have the UN billions gone? Not to the families in that camp, I promise you.

Ah, it’s so inconvenient, isn’t it, when the reality is all manner of conflicted? When a position can’t be sustained by anything other than ideology? Perhaps that’s the real disease of our age. We can no longer interrogate, analyse, approach an issue, any issue, with sober-minded judgment.

I wonder did it become fashionable to hate Israel around the same time as it became fashionable to assert that gender is but a social construct?

Academia is culpable in this mess. Australian universities were once places where young minds were sharpened by the contest of ideas. Would that they still were.

In June, University of Sydney Vice-Chancellor Mark Scott publicly condemned that college’s student council for anti-Semitic language and behaviour. The student council had passed a motion endorsing the boycott, divestment and sanctions movement against Israel (more on this in a second) and denouncing the “Israeli … system of militarised apartheid and ethnic cleansing”. Ethnic cleansing? The shame of them, using that phrase in this context. The embarrassing intellectual failure.

But back to the BDS movement. For context, BDS aims to penalise Israel financially via a worldwide boycott of Israeli products, businesses and services. It has been exposed, in layman’s terms, as a spectacular own goal.


Just one recent example, an analysis by global business publication Forbes, found that BDS has a negligible impact on Israel. It’s hurting Palestinians badly, though. What a shocking plot twist. It quoted global analysts Moody’s as saying the BDS movement completely ignores economic data, as well as a trove of evidence that trade between conflicted parties reduces the chance of war and conflict. Well done, ­ideologues. Well done indeed.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/inquirer/israel-haters-arent-cool-they-are-most...
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Zionism
Reply #958 - Aug 20th, 2023 at 3:33pm
 
Frank wrote on Aug 19th, 2023 at 4:31pm:
Today, though, being anti-Israel has almost become a celebrity cause du jour among certain sections of the media, academia and the political far left.


First error from this RW Oz-Murdoch ideologue: wanting two states (as defined in UN 181 and 242, is NOT "anti-Israel" .

The rest of the article will undoubtedly be GIGO  ....but I will give it a quick read:

Quote:
This hatred, this anti-Israel sentiment, is impossible to miss. The most recent case, courtesy of our government, was the decision to revert to describing East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza as “occupied Palestinian territories”. Going by the government’s logic, if we’re to revert to the pre-1967 status quo then Jordan gets the West Bank and Egypt can swan back into Gaza. It is embarrassing in its ­historical illiteracy.


Sneaky; but worth refuting.

"United Nations Resolution 242, resolution of the United Nations (UN) Security Council adopted on November 22, 1967, in an effort to secure a just and lasting peace in the wake of the Six-Day (June) War, fought primarily between Israel and Egypt, Jordan, and Syria.

So we are NOT "going back to PRE- 1967. We are attempting to draw a line under the conflict.

Quote:
So, too, is the decision not to recognise Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
.

UN 181 says Jerusalem is to be shared by3 major religions - the rational solution ...but rational actors re Jerusalem are few.   

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Can you imagine if a foreign entity......


Dummy has to imagine things to make his argument...suitable only for Oz readers; no thanks, I'll stick to the facts.

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but here’s Australia deigning to tell Israel where it’s capital should be.


A lie, of course: the present Australian govt. is preferring to re-align with internatinal law on the issue, unlike the previous RW nut-job Morrison govt. 

Quote:
Some of you will assume I’m suggesting Israel and it’s current Knesset are beyond reproach. Far from it. Having recently spent time in Israel I saw and heard first hand what Israelis think of this government. Israelis of all faiths and backgrounds are making their ­voices heard democratically, and in growing number.


Yes

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What I am challenging here is the hypocrisy of a viewpoint that conveniently ignores the obvious, as well as the entrenched ideological groupthink that has spread unchallenged through government, academia and sections of the media.


What you regard as "obvious" has been revealed as lies or RW religious ideology which is content to over-ride international law.

Quote:
For example, the federal government’s decision was welcomed warmly by the Palestinian Authority. This is the same authority that spends $300m annually on various payments and financial incentives for suicide bombers, terrorists and their families under the so-called Pay for Slay policy.


Sickening blame the victims of occupation for fighting back. 

Quote:
Just one recent example, an analysis by global business publication Forbes, found that BDS has a negligible impact on Israel. It’s hurting Palestinians badly, though. What a shocking plot twist. It quoted global analysts Moody’s as saying the BDS movement completely ignores economic data, as well as a trove of evidence that trade between conflicted parties reduces the chance of war and conflict. Well done, ­ideologues. Well done indeed.


Forbes support the preent criminal global financial system which is responsible for creating 100 million refugees around the globe.
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freediver
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Re: Zionism
Reply #959 - Aug 20th, 2023 at 6:31pm
 
Quote:
The borders need to be defined BEFORE a constitution outling the institutions required for the rule law can be written.


Is this a rule you just made up?
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