Australian Politics Forum - They lied and said the vaccine would protect us

MeisterEckhart

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Re: They lied and said the vaccine would protect us
Reply #75 - Jan 6^th, 2023 at 5:55am

We're wired to be driven by primal fear and the over-expectation and, in the first world, that we're destined to live disease-free (almost by divine right) for 100+ years.

Factor in the over-expectation that political and (in this case) health leaders have 20/20 insight into the short, medium and long-term futures and those leaders will be cornered into making quick decisions on the fly and forced to stand by them, with large corporations and the media along for the ride.

But that's not to say that the Joe and Jane Average have a better handle on clairvoyance (as we've seen over the last 3 years) - they're clear examples that nothing breeds certainty more effectively than ignorance, made more reckless by being freed from the responsibility of having to act on behalf of a nation - and acting like owners of stopped watches crowing that they're right twice a day.

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aquascoot

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Re: They lied and said the vaccine would protect us
Reply #76 - Jan 6^th, 2023 at 6:12am

At an intellectual level you are of course correct master

But as a simple farmer my observation is that people in large Urban concrete jungles are just cut off from nature

I see beloved animals dying all the time

Of course when I see an old horse on its last legs go down with something trivial
As a compassionate farmer I offer it comfort

What I don't do is ring the vet and have the old animal with many comorbidities
Transported to a tertiary level veterinary hospital to undergo MRI and be given tens of thousands of dollars of therapy knowing full well that it is Miele and in a futile fashion prolonging the misery

Now if I had a young horse I may think of throwing the kitchen sink at it to try to save it

But we have to be practical

Our public health system is completely overwhelmed trying to cope with the population which is not only ageing but ageing in a very very unhealthy way

Kovid is just a tiny little trigger which has exposed what was always there

The vast majority of people in the west are getting old
And the vast majority of people in the west refused to look after themselves in terms of diet and physical fitness

Add in the fact that they have all become atheists
Who view their existence as the centre of the univers
And think the world will stop when they disappear

You now have an equation that cannot possibly be solved

Kovid was a great opportunity for a reset in terms of how we look at disease and health
And we Double down and go down the completely wrong fork in the road

There will be consequences for this

Mainly that a health system which was barely coping will now completely fall apart

When the morons running the big cities want some advice
They can always head out into nature and see how things actually function

When you get out of step with mother nature you lose but only 100% of the time
That's just the way it is here on planet Earth

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ShellShilo

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Re: They lied and said the vaccine would protect us
Reply #77 - Jan 6^th, 2023 at 2:32pm

aquascoot wrote on Jan 6^th, 2023 at 4:54am:

ShellShilo wrote on Jan 5^th, 2023 at 11:36pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jan 5^th, 2023 at 7:35pm:

sorry, you are confused.

its the other way round (assuming we are talking about infection, not hospitalisation)

Yes, we are still talking about the SARS-CoV-2 virus, and Covid-19(disease) in Australia. NOT about hospitalizations!

It is very possible that I AM confused. So what specifically should be "..the the other way around.."? And, what specifically am I confused about?

that comment was directed to dna, not to you shell.

dna believes vaccines give better long term immunity.
this is false.
the immunity wanes quite quickly and the new variant in the north east of america shows complete vaccine escape.

natural immunity lasts longer.

My apology. And, of course you are right. Our acquired immune system can manufacture antibodies for not only any pathogen on earth. But for any pathogen anywhere in the universe. Any pathogen or antigen that can cause an infection, or disease, will induce an immune response. The human body has a ratio of 3.0x10^13 human cells, to 3.8x10^13 pathogenic cells. This is almost a 1:1 ratio(ignore the 10:1 pathogens to cells myth).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4991899/

Our adaptive immune system(AIS), has taken over 500M years to evolve into the 2nd most complicated system in the body. It is very good at protecting us from any/all pathogens/antigens. But, from a thermodynamic perspective, every amount of energy the body expends, COMES AT A PRICE!

So, unless you are in one of the extreme risk groups, mRNA vaccines is an unnecessary waste of our body's energy. And, WILL only create an avoidable biochemical imbalance in the body. IMHO

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Dnarever

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Re: They lied and said the vaccine would protect us
Reply #78 - Jan 6^th, 2023 at 2:52pm

aquascoot wrote on Jan 6^th, 2023 at 4:54am:

ShellShilo wrote on Jan 5^th, 2023 at 11:36pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jan 5^th, 2023 at 7:35pm:

sorry, you are confused.

its the other way round (assuming we are talking about infection, not hospitalisation)

Yes, we are still talking about the SARS-CoV-2 virus, and Covid-19(disease) in Australia. NOT about hospitalizations!

It is very possible that I AM confused. So what specifically should be "..the the other way around.."? And, what specifically am I confused about?

that comment was directed to dna, not to you shell.

dna believes vaccines give better long term immunity.
this is false.
the immunity wanes quite quickly and the new variant in the north east of america shows complete vaccine escape.

natural immunity lasts longer.

The article posted is one of many that say my view is correct.

Quote:

new variant in the north east of america shows complete vaccine escape.

This is possible but it is almost certain that natural immunity would fail just as poorly if not worse. Also the next Vaccine update or booster will likely be designed to protect against this version where the previous ineffective natural immunity will never catch up unless you are infected with this strain and even then there is that 30% likelihood of not gaining immunity.

It seems that about 30% of people who have had Covid-19 get zero immunity from it and in almost all cases the vaccine performs better and for longer than any natural immunity gained.

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aquascoot

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Re: They lied and said the vaccine would protect us
Reply #79 - Jan 6^th, 2023 at 3:43pm

Dnarever wrote on Jan 6^th, 2023 at 2:52pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jan 6^th, 2023 at 4:54am:

ShellShilo wrote on Jan 5^th, 2023 at 11:36pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jan 5^th, 2023 at 7:35pm:

sorry, you are confused.

its the other way round (assuming we are talking about infection, not hospitalisation)

Yes, we are still talking about the SARS-CoV-2 virus, and Covid-19(disease) in Australia. NOT about hospitalizations!

It is very possible that I AM confused. So what specifically should be "..the the other way around.."? And, what specifically am I confused about?

that comment was directed to dna, not to you shell.

dna believes vaccines give better long term immunity.
this is false.
the immunity wanes quite quickly and the new variant in the north east of america shows complete vaccine escape.

natural immunity lasts longer.

The article posted is one of many that say my view is correct.

Quote:

new variant in the north east of america shows complete vaccine escape.

This is possible but it is almost certain that natural immunity would fail just as poorly if not worse. Also the next Vaccine update or booster will likely be designed to protect against this version where the previous ineffective natural immunity will never catch up unless you are infected with this strain and even then there is that 30% likelihood of not gaining immunity.

It seems that about 30% of people who have had Covid-19 get zero immunity from it and in almost all cases the vaccine performs better and for longer than any natural immunity gained.

thats not my understanding.

when you fight off the actual virus your immune system will be recognising all surface of the virus.

when they chop a little piece out of the virus (in this case the spike), your immune system will only be recognising the spike.

i cant see how defeating the entire virus cannot give you better "immune memory" then defeating a very small part of it

do you have a source?

interestingly , you tube and google have banned (in the case of google shadow-banned) all discussion about the disurbing finding by the cleveland clinic that more vaccines makes you more likely to cacth the disease (but i stess not to DIE from the disease).

this is called "controlling the narrative"

imagine if it did turn out the vaccine did make you more prone to re=infection.

there would be some very embarrassed politicians, scientists, media organisations and big corporations.

hence, such information will never see the light of day

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aquascoot

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Re: They lied and said the vaccine would protect us
Reply #80 - Jan 6^th, 2023 at 3:47pm

Large Study's Disturbing Results -
8 days ago — ... Cleveland Clinic Health System (CCHS) involving 51,977 study subjects and a total of 10,804 employees that were bivalent vaccine boosted ...

COVID vaccine study raises questions about boostershttps://sanduskyregister.com › news › covid-vaccine-stu...
4 days ago — The Cleveland Clinic study was carried out on about 51,000 employees. It was aimed at evaluating the latest booster, the bivalent shot. It ...

COVID-19 Vaccine FAQs - Cleveland Clinichttps://my.clevelandclinic.org › landing › covid-19-vac...
In the phase 3 clinical trial, the vaccine was shown to be 66% effective in preventing moderate and severe COVID-19 disease 28 days after vaccination. Overall, ...

Dr. Doug Corrigan : "1/New study from Cleveland ...https://twitter.com › sciencewdrdoug › status
21 Dec 2022 — 1/New study from Cleveland Clinic demonstrates that the risk of a COVID ... numbers of prior vaccine doses in our study, was unexpected.

Bivalent mRNA vaccine is moderately effective in preventing ...https://www.news-medical.net › news › Bivalent-mRNA...
22 Dec 2022 — The current study involved the recruitment of Cleveland Clinic Health System (CCHS) employees on September 12, 2022, when the bivalent ...

No point vaccinating those who've had COVID-19https://www.news-medical.net › news › No-point-vacci...
cleveland clinic vaccine study from www.news-medical.net
8 June 2021 — Scientists from the Cleveland Clinic, USA, have recently evaluated the effectiveness of coronavirus disease 2019 COVID-19) vaccination among ...

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Bobby.

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Re: They lied and said the vaccine would protect us
Reply #81 - Jan 6^th, 2023 at 4:02pm

https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/urgent-two-new-studies-show-mrna

URGENT: Two new studies show mRNA-jabbed people have a much higher risk
of getting Covid than unvaccinated people

Vaccine-driven original antigenic sin: it's real and it's getting worse

Alex Berenson
Dec 21, 2022

People who have received mRNA Covid vaccines are at least twice as likely to be infected with the coronavirus as unvaccinated people, according to two new papers from researchers in Indiana and Ohio.

Worse, the newer of the two studies, which covered Omicron this fall, found risk actually rises with the number of shots.

People who had received three or more shots were more than three times as likely to be infected as those who hadn’t received any.

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aquascoot

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Re: They lied and said the vaccine would protect us
Reply #82 - Jan 6^th, 2023 at 4:52pm

bobby,

we need to be big picture people.

north eastern usa is up to 5 vaccines.

and its currently experiencing a tidal wave of the new variant

africa, where even having a single vaccine is at only 10 % has virtually no cases.

ethiopia, kenya and uganda were offered free vaccines by the WHO but turned them down as they have no cases.

i dont know who alex berrenson is.

undoubtedly carl will be along shortly to declare him a nut job

but if you can look at what is actually happening, you would at least want this investigated.

do more vaccines make you more likely to get reinfected.

surely that is a somewhat important question.

why isnt australia investigating and reporting.

could it be you never want to ask a question you wont like the answer to?

this may be the case

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aquascoot Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 35186 Gender:	Re: They lied and said the vaccine would protect us Reply #83 - Jan 6^th, 2023 at 4:55pm berensen is a reporter from the NY times hardly a tinfoil hat operation
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buzzanddidj

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Re: They lied and said the vaccine would protect us
Reply #84 - Jan 6^th, 2023 at 6:23pm

aquascoot wrote on Jan 6^th, 2023 at 4:52pm:

bobby,

we need to be big picture people.

north eastern usa is up to 5 vaccines.

and its currently experiencing a tidal wave of the new variant

africa, where even having a single vaccine is at only 10 % has virtually no cases.

ethiopia, kenya and uganda were offered free vaccines by the WHO but turned them down as they have no cases.

i dont know who alex berrenson is.

undoubtedly carl will be along shortly to declare him a nut job

but if you can look at what is actually happening, you would at least want this investigated.

do more vaccines make you more likely to get reinfected.

surely that is a somewhat important question.

why isnt australia investigating and reporting.

could it be you never want to ask a question you wont like the answer to?

this may be the case

PLEASE TAKE ONE
... or TWO - if you think needed

.

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Carl D Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9650 Rivervale, Perth Gender:	Re: They lied and said the vaccine would protect us Reply #85 - Jan 6^th, 2023 at 6:35pm lol@buzz. Good one. I wonder if we can buy those bags? Meanwhile, Dr. Berger has the same problem with the BS artists on Twitter as we're having here at OzPol. https://mobile.twitter.com/YouAreLobbyLud/status/1611261142646816769
Back to top	Repeat Covid infections exercise our immune system in the same way that repeat concussions exercise our brain IP Logged

ShellShilo

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Re: They lied and said the vaccine would protect us
Reply #86 - Jan 6^th, 2023 at 7:08pm

Dnarever wrote on Jan 6^th, 2023 at 2:52pm:

The article posted is one of many that say my view is correct.

You can find any article, or person, to support any idea you want. That doesn't mean that your view or idea is correct. Since your article says absolutely NOTHING definitive, I will assume that the other articles are the same. OPINIONATED and DOGMATIC!

Anyone can make claims based on the claims of others. But it is harder to defend those claims without understanding the subject. So again, what should be the other way around? And, what specifically am I confused about?

Dnarever wrote on Jan 6^th, 2023 at 2:52pm:

This is possible but it is almost certain that natural immunity would fail just as poorly if not worse. Also the next Vaccine update or booster will likely be designed to protect against this version where the previous ineffective natural immunity will never catch up unless you are infected with this strain and even then there is that 30% likelihood of not gaining immunity.

It seems that about 30% of people who have had Covid-19 get zero immunity from it and in almost all cases the vaccine performs better and for longer than any natural immunity gained.

I would love to see any evidence that would support any of these claims. If an unvaccinated person recovers from Covid-19, how long does his acquired immunity lasts? And, how long does a vaccinated person's immunity last, after recovering from Covid-19? Without taking an infinite number of vaccines and boosters, how long does the initial vaccine's immunity lasts?

It's very easy to cite references and articles. But not so easy to defend them. Both Sir lasnail and Aquascoot are correct. The naturally acquired antibodies, are by far the body's best defense against all pathogens. I can give you many scientific reasons why this is so. But I would really like to hear YOUR reasons why it ain't so. Since the burden of proof is on you.

I really don't want my body's immune system, filled with artificially induced antibodies.

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AusGeoff

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Re: They lied and said the vaccine would protect us
Reply #87 - Jan 6^th, 2023 at 7:09pm

Bobby. wrote on Jan 6^th, 2023 at 4:02pm:

https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/urgent-two-new-studies-show-mrna

URGENT: Two new studies show mRNA-jabbed people have a much higher risk
of getting Covid than unvaccinated people...

Why is it that the rabid anti-vaxxers invariably fail to ascertain the validity
of their sources, or the credentials of the individuals they cite?

Why is it that they only ever link to other anti-vaxxer conspiracy sites,
rather than cite any accredited medical sources possibly supporting
their nonsensical claims?

Anyway, Alex Berenson has zero medical qualifications, and is therefore
totally ill-equipped to offer any rational advice about the pandemic or its
effects, or the efficacy or otherwise of the vaccines and/or vaccination.
It appears he's also lacking the mental acumen needed to separate the
wheat from the chaff—as far as his own limited "research" is concerned.

Check this out for a good—although painful at times—laugh:

The Pandemic’s Wrongest Man.

In a crowded field of wrongness, one person stands out: Alex Berenson. Roll Eyes

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Bobby.

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Re: They lied and said the vaccine would protect us
Reply #88 - Jan 6^th, 2023 at 7:31pm

Bobby. wrote on Jan 6^th, 2023 at 4:02pm:

https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/urgent-two-new-studies-show-mrna

URGENT: Two new studies show mRNA-jabbed people have a much higher risk
of getting Covid than unvaccinated people

Vaccine-driven original antigenic sin: it's real and it's getting worse

Alex Berenson
Dec 21, 2022

People who have received mRNA Covid vaccines are at least twice as likely to be infected with the coronavirus as unvaccinated people, according to two new papers from researchers in Indiana and Ohio.

Worse, the newer of the two studies, which covered Omicron this fall, found risk actually rises with the number of shots.

People who had received three or more shots were more than three times as likely to be infected as those who hadn’t received any.

A fact checker looked into his claim:

https://www.factcheck.org/2022/06/scicheck-vaccinated-people-not-more-susceptibl...

Q. Are vaccinated and boosted people more susceptible to infection or disease with the omicron variant than unvaccinated people?

A. No. Getting vaccinated increases your protection against COVID-19.
Sometimes, certain raw data can suggest otherwise,
but that information cannot be used to determine how well a vaccine works.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: They lied and said the vaccine would protect us
Reply #89 - Jan 6^th, 2023 at 7:32pm

Dnarever wrote on Jan 5^th, 2023 at 11:37pm:

Vaccines add protection.

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) released a report on Oct. 29, 2021, that says getting vaccinated for the coronavirus when you’ve already had COVID-19 significantly enhances your immune protection and further reduces your risk of reinfection.

A study published in August 2021 indicates that if you had COVID-19 before and are not vaccinated, your risk of getting re-infected is more than two times higher than for those who got vaccinated after having COVID-19.

Another study published on Nov. 5, 2021, by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) looked at adults hospitalized for COVID-like sickness between January and September 2021. This study found that the chances of these adults testing positive for COVID-19 were 5.49 times higher in unvaccinated people who had COVID-19 in the past than they were for those who had been vaccinated for COVID and had not had an infection before.

A study from the CDC in September 2021 showed that roughly one-third of those with COVID-19 cases in the study had no apparent natural immunity.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid...

I looked at that study don't know why they allowed garbage like that to be published i don't know why anyone would put their name on it. Grin

Did you read this from the link to study?
Quote:

The findings in this report are subject to at least five limitations.
First, reinfection was not confirmed through whole genome sequencing, which would be necessary to definitively prove that the reinfection was caused from a distinct virus relative to the first infection. Although in some cases the repeat positive test could be indicative of prolonged viral shedding or failure to clear the initial viral infection
Second, persons who have been vaccinated are possibly less likely to get tested.
Finally, this is a retrospective study design using data from a single state during a 2-month period; therefore, these findings cannot be used to infer causation.Additional prospective studies with larger populations are warranted to support these findings.

That study had 738 people the Israeli study had 700,000 people.

Quote:

Natural immunity to covid is powerful. Policymakers seem afraid to say so.

September 15, 2021

Marty Makary is a professor at the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine and Bloomberg School of Public Health, editor-in-chief of Medpage Today

It’s okay to have an incorrect scientific hypothesis. But when new data proves it wrong, you have to adapt. Unfortunately, many elected leaders and public health officials have held on far too long to the hypothesis that natural immunity offers unreliable protection against covid-19 — a contention that is being rapidly debunked by science.

More than 15 studies have demonstrated the power of immunity acquired by previously having the virus. A 700,000-person study from Israel two weeks ago found that

those who had experienced prior infections were 27 times less likely to get a second symptomatic covid infection than those who were vaccinated.

This affirmed a June Cleveland Clinic study of health-care workers (who are often exposed to the virus), in which none who had previously tested positive for the coronavirus got reinfected. The study authors concluded that “individuals who have had SARS-CoV-2 infection are unlikely to benefit from covid-19 vaccination.” And in May, a Washington University study found that even a mild covid infection resulted in long-lasting immunity.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/09/15/natural-immunity-vaccine-manda...

The article you cited says more testing with larger groups is required it was done it shows those unvaxxed were 27 times less likely to get second infection compared to vaxxed.

With science when new data proves old theories to be wrong you have to throw the wrong stuff in the garbage. This is one of the basics with science even high school kids should know this. What did Dr Makary say about that?

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