Australian Politics Forum - The delusions of Western classical liberalism

Bias_2012

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Re: The delusions of Western classical liberalism
Reply #15 - Jan 8^th, 2023 at 8:26pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 8^th, 2023 at 12:16pm:

All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood

.

That is basically a pipe dream

But the crowd in this link could possibly give us an understanding of how it could be achieved

https://www.humancondition.com/about-the-world-transformation-movement/

In the meantime, our politicians will continue to be self interested bastards intent on imposing their will on us whether we like it or not, they carry on like a God, much like the Communist party in China

Actually, we don't have rights in Australia, inalienable or otherwise, why we're talking about existing rights, I don't know ... and laws are not rights, laws can be changed when Lib Lab politicians feel like changing them

What we need to do, is get rid of the "bastard" in the Libs and Labs ... but that won't be easy to do because once a bastard, always a bastard

I'll grant you one thing, we need to change our ethos of character and disposition in political matters, and not leave it to just two parties to tell us what common sense we should live under, it's only their opinion, compared to, and versus, everyone elses' opinions. And while ever the Libs and Labs rule Australia, it's their opinions that prevail ... and that's contrary to their preached principle of "diversity"

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Jasin

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Re: The delusions of Western classical liberalism
Reply #16 - Jan 8^th, 2023 at 8:31pm

The Prime Ministers of 'both' Parties serve the USA.

The Governor-Generals serve the UK.

Australia does not have a 'domestic' political representation - unless it fractures into many small 'independent' nations of their own accord all being empowered by an 'individual' who was sacrificed upon the Southern Cross for some Republic outcry like a lamb to the slaughter. Wink

Who's it gonna be?

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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AusGeoff Gold Member Offline Sage of Gippsland Posts: 5999 Victoria Gender:	Re: The delusions of Western classical liberalism Reply #17 - Jan 8^th, 2023 at 8:42pm Can someone list my inalienable rights (that I currently enjoy) that would be (or are) denied me by any past, future, or present Australian federal governments? I'm nor aware of any.
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Bias_2012

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Re: The delusions of Western classical liberalism
Reply #18 - Jan 8^th, 2023 at 9:02pm

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jan 8^th, 2023 at 8:11pm:

The two of you confuse inalienable rights with the rights we are currently allowed to hold.... THAT, my children - is why I am here to lead you out of the wilderness. We need a total change of governance to bring about those inalienable rights.... not just your idle acceptance of what we currently hold...

Do you agree with the idea of birth certificates?

Birth certificates were probably used to identify 20 year olds who failed to register for conscription in the 60s, and possibly tax returns too, but they would have been unreliable, however, a tax file number would have date of birth

I can see no other ways the Libs and the govt departments could have zeroed in on draft dodgers but to use birth certificates and tax details

Now, when we're born, we can't do anything about it, b/certificates get filed away in govt departments and they're there for life

But did you ever think that they can be used against you to ultimately lose all your rights, as in military conscription?

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Jasin

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Re: The delusions of Western classical liberalism
Reply #19 - Jan 8^th, 2023 at 9:11pm

Imagine. You spend your life's early efforts to become a School Teacher, Uni Lecturer even, Tradesman, even Master Tradesman, Engineer, Archeologist, Librarian and more. Also including those who dedicate themselves to propping up this country's lame population growth.

...then along comes some Wanker in Military Green to bonk you on the head and drag you away to be enslaved to their Military way of life - Or you get thrown in prison and abused. And all because of 'other' nations. Roll Eyes

Nothing like 'arming the civilians' right? Huh

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The delusions of Western classical liberalism
Reply #20 - Jan 8^th, 2023 at 11:51pm

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jan 8^th, 2023 at 8:11pm:

The two of you confuse inalienable rights with the rights we are currently allowed to hold....

I don't do that (though bias does); I'm showing you that "inalienable rights" don't exist, whereas the rights we do have are - and can only be - determined by legislation.

Note: the Americans have "a right to carry", we don't.

Quote:

THAT, my children - is why I am here to lead you out of the wilderness. We need a total change of governance to bring about those inalienable rights.... not just your idle acceptance of what we currently hold....

Can you begin by identifying these postulated "inalienable rights", and explain WHY they are inalienable, other than merely saying they are 'self-evident' (or "God given")?

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« Last Edit: Jan 8^th, 2023 at 11:57pm by thegreatdivide »

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AusGeoff

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Re: The delusions of Western classical liberalism
Reply #21 - Jan 9^th, 2023 at 12:00am

Jasin wrote on Jan 8^th, 2023 at 9:11pm:

Imagine. You spend your life's early efforts to become a School Teacher, Uni Lecturer even, Tradesman, even Master Tradesman, Engineer, Archeologist, Librarian and more. Also including those who dedicate themselves to propping up this country's lame population growth.

...then along comes some Wanker in Military Green to bonk you on the head and drag you away to be enslaved to their Military way of life - Or you get thrown in prison and abused. And all because of 'other' nations.

Nothing like 'arming the civilians' right?

Mate... you need to keep up with the times LOL.

Australia abolished conscription fifty years ago.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The delusions of Western classical liberalism
Reply #22 - Jan 9^th, 2023 at 12:05am

AusGeoff wrote on Jan 8^th, 2023 at 8:42pm:

Can someone list my inalienable rights (that I currently enjoy) that
would be (or are) denied me by any past, future, or present Australian
federal governments?

I'm nor aware of any.

I would ask: what are these "inalienable rights" possessed by all humans, how and why do they exist, other than simply saying they are 'self-evident' or 'God-given'.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The delusions of Western classical liberalism
Reply #23 - Jan 9^th, 2023 at 12:29am

Bias_2012 wrote on Jan 8^th, 2023 at 8:26pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 8^th, 2023 at 12:16pm:

All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood

.

That is basically a pipe dream

I think all the words before "should" are NOT a pipe dream.....even the "dignity" bit: Jesus was born in a cow- shed...and "rights" are what "reason and conscience" decide them to be.

Quote:

But the crowd in this link could possibly give us an understanding of how it could be achieved

https://www.humancondition.com/about-the-world-transformation-movement/

I loved, for a while, Jeremy Griffith's WTM, but apparently most of us are too 'psychologically conflicted' to join - I was refused admission....

Quote:

In the meantime, our politicians will continue to be self interested bastards intent on imposing their will on us whether we like it or not, they carry on like a God, much like the Communist party in China

Well, we are all blindly groping toward "good governance"...

Quote:

Actually, we don't have rights in Australia, inalienable or otherwise, why we're talking about existing rights, I don't know ... and laws are not rights, laws can be changed when Lib Lab politicians feel like changing them

So - like graps, you need to define "rights"; presumably you have in mind "rights" which don't require governments to establish, but exist through "reason and conscience"?

Quote:

What we need to do, is get rid of the "bastard" in the Libs and Labs ... but that won't be easy to do because once a bastard, always a bastard

I'll grant you one thing, we need to change our ethos of character and disposition in political matters, and not leave it to just two parties to tell us what common sense we should live under, it's only their opinion, compared to, and versus, everyone elses' opinions. And while ever the Libs and Labs rule Australia, it's their opinions that prevail ... and that's contrary to their preached principle of "diversity"

So ...a parliament composed entirely of independents?

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« Last Edit: Jan 9^th, 2023 at 12:42am by thegreatdivide »

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Bias_2012

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Re: The delusions of Western classical liberalism
Reply #24 - Jan 9^th, 2023 at 2:12am

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 9^th, 2023 at 12:29am:

So - like graps, you need to define "rights"; presumably you have in mind "rights" which don't require governments to establish, but exist through "reason and conscience"?

One that needs reviewing is the compulsory acquisition of private property without offering market value in compensation plus expenses for having to set up home in another location

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Jasin

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Re: The delusions of Western classical liberalism
Reply #25 - Jan 9^th, 2023 at 5:48am

AusGeoff wrote on Jan 9^th, 2023 at 12:00am:

Jasin wrote on Jan 8^th, 2023 at 9:11pm:

Imagine. You spend your life's early efforts to become a School Teacher, Uni Lecturer even, Tradesman, even Master Tradesman, Engineer, Archeologist, Librarian and more. Also including those who dedicate themselves to propping up this country's lame population growth.

...then along comes some Wanker in Military Green to bonk you on the head and drag you away to be enslaved to their Military way of life - Or you get thrown in prison and abused. And all because of 'other' nations.

Nothing like 'arming the civilians' right?

Mate... you need to keep up with the times LOL.

Australia abolished conscription fifty years ago.

Geoff.
You're off your perch, if you think the Government's' won't bring it back for a World War, expecially if hardly anyone volunteers to be nuked on foreign soils.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 47220 Gender:	Re: The delusions of Western classical liberalism Reply #26 - Jan 9^th, 2023 at 6:49am AusGeoff wrote on Jan 8^th, 2023 at 8:42pm: Can someone list my inalienable rights (that I currently enjoy) that would be (or are) denied me by any past, future, or present Australian federal governments? I'm nor aware of any. Life, thought, speech, property.
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mothra

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Re: The delusions of Western classical liberalism
Reply #27 - Jan 9^th, 2023 at 7:43am

Frank wrote on Jan 9^th, 2023 at 6:49am:

AusGeoff wrote on Jan 8^th, 2023 at 8:42pm:

Can someone list my inalienable rights (that I currently enjoy) that
would be (or are) denied me by any past, future, or present Australian
federal governments?

I'm nor aware of any.

Life, thought, speech, property.

Life ... universal health care ... let's hope the ALP manage to restore Medicare.

Thought ... free eduaction for all. Dropped the ball on that one, didn't we.

Speech ... well, with all you get away with on here, i've no idea why your complaining. You get to say what you want you blithering snowflake. You just don't like that people tell you that you're an arsehole for it. Or that you're comments are unpopular. You refuse to take either hint so we're all just waiting patiently for you to die.

Property ... guaranteed housing for all? An end to homelessness? Sign me up!

Strike me pink old boy. Aside from the whinging, i think you're a socialist!

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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Frank

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Re: The delusions of Western classical liberalism
Reply #28 - Jan 9^th, 2023 at 8:31am

mothra wrote on Jan 9^th, 2023 at 7:43am:

Frank wrote on Jan 9^th, 2023 at 6:49am:

AusGeoff wrote on Jan 8^th, 2023 at 8:42pm:

Can someone list my inalienable rights (that I currently enjoy) that
would be (or are) denied me by any past, future, or present Australian
federal governments?

I'm nor aware of any.

Life, thought, speech, property.

Life ... universal health care ... let's hope the ALP manage to restore Medicare.

Thought ... free eduaction for all. Dropped the ball on that one, didn't we.

Speech ... well, with all you get away with on here, i've no idea why your complaining. You get to say what you want you blithering snowflake. You just don't like that people tell you that you're an arsehole for it. Or that you're comments are unpopular. You refuse to take either hint so we're all just waiting patiently for you to die.

Property ... guaranteed housing for all? An end to homelessness? Sign me up!

Strike me pink old boy. Aside from the whinging, i think you're a socialist!

Totally unsurprisingly, Mrs Bbwian, you are hopelessly confused about natural and civil rights. But then you are both socialists so confusion and misunderstanding ARE your angle on everything.
Carry on, scatter them knickers.

Btw, I wasnt "winging", frightbat, I was responding to the Sage of Gippsland.
Have you done all the sweeping, washing up, ironing already?

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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mothra

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Re: The delusions of Western classical liberalism
Reply #29 - Jan 9^th, 2023 at 8:40am

Frank wrote on Jan 9^th, 2023 at 8:31am:

mothra wrote on Jan 9^th, 2023 at 7:43am:

Frank wrote on Jan 9^th, 2023 at 6:49am:

AusGeoff wrote on Jan 8^th, 2023 at 8:42pm:

Can someone list my inalienable rights (that I currently enjoy) that
would be (or are) denied me by any past, future, or present Australian
federal governments?

I'm nor aware of any.

Life, thought, speech, property.

Life ... universal health care ... let's hope the ALP manage to restore Medicare.

Thought ... free eduaction for all. Dropped the ball on that one, didn't we.

Speech ... well, with all you get away with on here, i've no idea why your complaining. You get to say what you want you blithering snowflake. You just don't like that people tell you that you're an arsehole for it. Or that you're comments are unpopular. You refuse to take either hint so we're all just waiting patiently for you to die.

Property ... guaranteed housing for all? An end to homelessness? Sign me up!

Strike me pink old boy. Aside from the whinging, i think you're a socialist!

Totally unsurprisingly, Mrs Bbwian, you are hopelessly confused about natural and civil rights. But then you are both socialists so confusion and misunderstanding ARE your angle on everything.
Carry on, scatter them knickers.

Btw, I wasnt "winging", frightbat, I was responding to the Sage of Gippsland.
Have you done all the sweeping, washing up, ironing already?

Would you care to point out to me where i was wrong in your interpretation?

Surely you didn't just mean all of those rights for "some", did you?

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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