Australian Politics Forum - FBI raid turns up more stolen docs

greggerypeccary

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Re: FBI raid turns up more stolen docs
Reply #15 - Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 2:57pm

lee wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 2:55pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 2:37pm:

The story is real stupid - At that time he didn't have access to classified documents as he said. The rest just confirms that he didn't know there were classified documents in the office.

So now it is he didn't know he had classified documents. Roll Eyes

Dnarever wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 2:37pm:

Hardly a gotcha when it is only confirming Biden's current position as being correct and consistent with what was said in the previous interview..

That depends on when the documents date from. Roll Eyes

Lee, please pay attention:

For the sake of the argument, let's just say that he removed them when he did not have authorisation - that's still not a crime.

There are two parts to the relative legislation (the numbers in brackets were put there by me):

Federal law (18 U.S. Code § 1924) states that anyone who “(1) knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and (2) with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than five years, or both.”

(1) is not a crime on its own - it must be accompanied by (2).

That's why the word "and" is inserted into the legalisation.

It's not one or the other - it's both, and Biden clearly has no intention of retaining the documents.

Thus, no crime.

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Dnarever

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Re: FBI raid turns up more stolen docs
Reply #16 - Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 2:57pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 2:45pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 2:37pm:

lee wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 2:26pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 1:51pm:

Knowingly removed documents or materials without authority? No. He was a sitting, elected Vice President - he had full authority.

That authority was extinguished when he was no longer VP. And that after saying in an interview he "had no access to classified information". Classified documents by their very name contain "classified information".

"Amid Tuesday’s furor over news that classified documents had been found in a suite of Washington, D.C., offices Biden used in his post-vice presidency period, damaging video from a 2018 interview resurfaced that shows Biden declaring he had no access to “classified information.”"

https://www.westernjournal.com/damaging-5-year-old-video-biden-surfaces-bombshel...

The story is real stupid - At that time he didn't have access to classified documents as he said.

Exactly.

But at the time they were removed, he did.

However, for the sake of the argument, let's just say that he removed them when he did not have authorisation - that's still not a crime.

There are two parts to the crime (the numbers in brackets were put in by me):

Federal law (18 U.S. Code § 1924) states that anyone who “(1) knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and (2) with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than five years, or both.”

(1) is not a crime on its own - it must be accompanied by (2).

That's why the word "and" is inserted into the legalisation.

It's not one or the other - it's both, and Biden clearly has no intention of retaining the documents.

Quote:

But at the time they were removed, he did.

He was O/S when they were discovered and removed.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17949 Gender:	Re: FBI raid turns up more stolen docs Reply #17 - Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 2:57pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 2:45pm: (1) is not a crime on its own - it must be accompanied by (2). So there was no intent, he merely forgot about them. Didn't know he had them. His memory is so shot he can't have intent. That about sums it up.
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 138774 Gender:	Re: FBI raid turns up more stolen docs Reply #18 - Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 2:59pm Dnarever wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 2:55pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 2:50pm: Jasin wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 2:46pm: They found Melania's knickers at Trump's home. What about Ivanka's? https://i.ytimg.com/vi/MepkrmDIl28/maxresdefault.jpg They were safe in Donald's pocket.
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Dnarever

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Re: FBI raid turns up more stolen docs
Reply #19 - Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 3:00pm

lee wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 2:55pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 2:37pm:

The story is real stupid - At that time he didn't have access to classified documents as he said. The rest just confirms that he didn't know there were classified documents in the office.

So now it is he didn't know he had classified documents. Roll Eyes

Dnarever wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 2:37pm:

Hardly a gotcha when it is only confirming Biden's current position as being correct and consistent with what was said in the previous interview..

That depends on when the documents date from. Roll Eyes

Quote:

So now it is he didn't know he had classified documents. Roll Eyes

No it was always that he didn't know he had the documents - as soon as they were aware of the documents they were returned. The story was never anything different.

Quote:

That depends on when the documents date from.

It is close to 100% that the documents were from when he was VP. Nobody has said anything different from this.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: FBI raid turns up more stolen docs
Reply #20 - Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 3:01pm

lee wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 2:57pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 2:45pm:

(1) is not a crime on its own - it must be accompanied by (2).

So there was no intent, he merely forgot about them.

Yes (see if you can find a lawyer who can prove otherwise).

And when discovered, he handed them straight back.

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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 58930 Here Gender:	Re: FBI raid turns up more stolen docs Reply #21 - Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 3:01pm Quote: FBI raid turns up more stolen docs As is typical the title is a lie. There was no FBI raid. The Biden team found the documents and returned them.
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greggerypeccary

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Re: FBI raid turns up more stolen docs
Reply #22 - Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 3:04pm

Dnarever wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 3:01pm:

Quote:

FBI raid turns up more stolen docs

As is typical the title is a lie.

There was no FBI raid. The Biden team found the documents and returned them.

Indeed.

And then Biden and his lawyers collaborated with the DOJ & FBI in order to carry out a more thorough search.

The FBI were invited in, and the documents weren't stolen so yeah, the thread title is a complete fabrication.

Hunter's Laptop

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Dnarever

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Re: FBI raid turns up more stolen docs
Reply #23 - Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 3:05pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 3:01pm:

lee wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 2:57pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 2:45pm:

(1) is not a crime on its own - it must be accompanied by (2).

So there was no intent, he merely forgot about them.

Yes (see if you can find a lawyer who can prove otherwise).

And when discovered, he handed them straight back.

This is the case here.

The bit I don't like about it is that it seems to apply to Presidents and x Presidents. The woman arrested for mishandling documents and locked up for 3 years had zero intent but this expectation does not apply so much to non politicians.

For normal people it is do the crime do the time - no excuses. not even ignorance.

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Aussie

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Re: FBI raid turns up more stolen docs
Reply #24 - Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 3:09pm

Steampipe wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 12:01pm:

Bidens home was raided and more stolen documents located.

Question is how many Chinese and Russian agents had access to these docs.

Yer as lying piece of dog crap Steampipe. There was no raid by the FBI.

There was a pre-arranged mutually consensual voluntary search.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: FBI raid turns up more stolen docs
Reply #25 - Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 3:30pm

Dnarever wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 3:05pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 3:01pm:

lee wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 2:57pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 2:45pm:

(1) is not a crime on its own - it must be accompanied by (2).

So there was no intent, he merely forgot about them.

Yes (see if you can find a lawyer who can prove otherwise).

And when discovered, he handed them straight back.

This is the case here.

The bit I don't like about it is that it seems to apply to Presidents and x Presidents. The woman arrested for mishandling documents and locked up for 3 years had zero intent but this expectation does not apply so much to non politicians.

For normal people it is do the crime do the time - no excuses. not even ignorance.

She only got three months but yeah, I get ya.

Make no mistake, this is bad for Biden - he (or his team) was unacceptably careless.

But Biden's is a political issue, and Trump's is a legal one.

Trump broke the law (that's not even up for debate anymore - he committed the crime), whereas Biden was just extremely irresponsible.

Hopefully this will result in stricter security (give these guys a library card, FFS).

I wonder if Obama and Bush are "tidying up" their garages this weekend Wink

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17949 Gender:	Re: FBI raid turns up more stolen docs Reply #26 - Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 3:34pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 3:01pm: And when discovered, he handed them straight back. That's why it was the FBI who found them in his garage. So one lot from when he has an office at the Uni and another at home that he completely forgot about. And you think it a good thing.
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lee

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Re: FBI raid turns up more stolen docs
Reply #27 - Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 3:35pm

Dnarever wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 3:01pm:

There was no FBI raid. The Biden team found the documents and returned them.

The FBI found classified documents in his Class 6 (similar to Australia's Class A) classified garage.That sounds like a raid. Roll Eyes

Of course being "voluntary" probably means Biden's team didn't expect anything to be found. Roll Eyes

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greggerypeccary

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Re: FBI raid turns up more stolen docs
Reply #28 - Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 3:44pm

lee wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 3:34pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 3:01pm:

And when discovered, he handed them straight back.

That's why it was the FBI who found them in his garage.

So one lot from when he has an office at the Uni and another at home that he completely forgot about. And you think it a good thing. Roll Eyes

Read my previous post.

"Make no mistake, this is bad for Biden - he (or his team) was unacceptably careless."

"... Biden was ... extremely irresponsible."

But Biden's case is political and Trump's is legal.

Trump committed a crime, Biden did not.

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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 58930 Here Gender:	Re: FBI raid turns up more stolen docs Reply #29 - Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 4:01pm Apparently there was a search done with the FBI yesterday and found a few more documents so this is different. It still wasn't a raid. They are saying another 6 possibly classified documents.
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