Australian Politics Forum - The Push For Fees For Non-Union Members

Dnarever

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Re: The Push For Fees For Non-Union Members
Reply #60 - Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 9:40pm

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:27pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:19pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:10pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:51am:

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:30am:

All we need is for grappler to start calling them scabs, and we will have gone through the entire repertoire of union recruitment. Again.

No need for name calling, or forcing people to join a union, or forcing them to pay other fees.

Let's be civil.

The solution is simple: union members get union-won entitlements, and non-members don't.

Only Medibank Private members get Medibank Private benefits. Yeah?

So, only union members should get union-won benefits.

I don't see how any reasonable person can be opposed to this simple, fair solution.

Sure. After all, most non-union members earn more anyway. The unions would have no trouble recruiting if they actually benefitted their members, rather than trying to claim credit for the sun coming up in the morning.

You don't see annual leave, sick pay, meal breaks, superannuation, maternity leave, penalty rates, etc. as benefits?

Sure I do. I also benefit from the sun coming up in the morning.

That was the unions first deal with the creator, originally management planned for the sun to come up 10 hrs earlier and go down 2 hours later in order to maximise the workday to the then 22 hrs work 2 hrs to get ready for more work.

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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: The Push For Fees For Non-Union Members Reply #61 - Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:59pm Hmmm .... 2 observations: 1. All of you will whinge. 2. None of you will work.
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Gnads

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Re: The Push For Fees For Non-Union Members
Reply #62 - Jan 24^th, 2023 at 3:44am

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:53pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:51pm:

Union members earn 32% more than non-members per week. Here’s why.

The data from the Australian Bureau of Statistics clearly shows that union membership equals higher pay, no matter which way you cut it. This is because of a combination of the benefits of union membership

I take issue with your link's information.

It's just not the case.

I have very close family members in the industries listed in your link and there IS no difference in pay if you're a union member or not.

For those who may not know : irrespective of union membership ... workers in a particular industry are covered by the same award and are paid the same amount per hour and are subject to the same conditions as set out by that award et al.

No offence Greggary but that information is very misleading and deceptive. The union organisation in your link has taken stats out of context and has run with it.

I'll be back later....I need to send a few emails.

And who do you think was behind getting the award system up & running... creating equity - same job same pay????? The Union movement.

Another example of Union benefits workers enjoy.

And another reason why workers should belong to a Union & contribute towards all the benefits that so many take for granted.

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Gnads

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Re: The Push For Fees For Non-Union Members
Reply #63 - Jan 24^th, 2023 at 3:55am

Jasin wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 4:04pm:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 1:13pm:

Jasin wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:57pm:

So General Ward and Aged Care Nurses are leaners and scabs off the backs of other Nurses who work in more demanding departments like Emergency, etc upon the same pay rate??

Come now Yankee Unionist - draw the f*ucking line!

The only difference between you and I Gonads is that you need the Union because you will 'always' be a Worker.
Grin

Stop repeating yourself .... you're the one making a differentiation between these Nurses. You drew the line idiot.

If they get the same pay it's because they do the same work .... who are you to judge who works harder?

If you take wages & conditions won by Unions & are not in a Union to contribute then you are a leaner & or scab. End of.

Hey Numpty.
It's the Nurses who complain.
The ones who 'work harder', but watch other's work less and get paid the same.
You started it - now f*ucking finish it.
This is what it's like in your can of worms.

In many countries - there is 'paid by performance' rewards.
In other countries - the 'Workers' own the Business and hire the management and admin. Even though the illusion of 'workers only being blue collar' is as primitive as a Lemur's dna connection. White Collars are also 'process workers' with the brain having to work through the processes also.

You're a Unionised numpty who deserves to be a Worker all his life. Suck sh*it to you loser! Grin

The can of worms is between your ears.

I'd prefer to had been a worker all my life - 46 years in the one industry - doing a raft of different jobs.

Than to be an unemployed dole bludging goose who when he was employed was a leaner/scab/brown nose who couldn't stick at it for any length of time.

Your resume could be written on the head of a pin with a lump of charcoal & there would still be space.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Gnads

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Re: The Push For Fees For Non-Union Members
Reply #64 - Jan 24^th, 2023 at 4:01am

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 6:10pm:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:34pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 8:40am:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 8:04am:

That would upset all the non contributing leaning scabs that now infest the workplace.....

they take the money, the conditions & benefits and never batt an eyelid of guilt

the lowest of the lowest common denominators.

https://amp.smh.com.au/politics/federal/top-state-unionists-push-actu-on-fees-fo...

Gnads - I'm not happy with you this morning.

What you're REALLY saying is this : If I can't do my job in recruiting more members (mind you I myself command an obscene salary) I should be protected by law so I can go about punishing those who refuse to become members to the tune of $550 per annum???

You do realise that Keating, Rudd and Gillard thought this wasn't right.

So why do YOU think it is?

Especially NOW .... right off the back of an unresolved global pandemic driven recession with rising inflation and rising interest rates?

Like I actually give a rats arse.... seriously?

When I first entered the Railways in 1973 I joined the relevant Union after I was shown exactly what Unionism had bought to the workplace for the benefit of all employees.

Any fair minded person could see the reasoning there.

At that time anyone who chose not to, objected to & refused to join a Union relevant to their classification (there were many classifications in a railway) would have an equivalent amount of money to their applicable Union dues deducted from their pay every fortnight by the Employer to be given to a nominated charity.

It was a good idea & a fair result for all. Even the employer realised that.

It only changed when slimey Johnny Howard got into the seat in 1996.

Opened the door to all the leaners & scabs who are prepared to take & not contribute - Jasins testament to that.

The same sort of people that come running looking for Union assistance when they think they have been wronged by their employer.

8 hr day, 5 day week - now a 38 hr week, annual leave, sick leave, maternity leave, compassionate leave, cultural leave, meal breaks,workplace health & safety, superannuation, workplace amenities, reasonable hours of work etc. etc.

All part of what Unions have won for their members & not one bit of that was ever given freely out of the goodness of their hearts to workers by employers.

Regarding your 1st paragraph .... don't tell me you're a Union Rep? None that I know are on or commanding obscene salaries.

$550 per annum = $21.15 per fortnight.

The Union dues as Locomotive Driver of my former Union the RTBU is
$29.40 per fortnight = $764.40 per annum.

Other Unions & occupations there covered have much higher dues.

So $550 is a more than reasonable contribution.

Otherwise those who chose not to should forgo any of the above mentioned workplace wages & conditions negotiated & won by Unions.

Thank you Grandpa Gnads for that anecdote (which clearly belongs in the realms of ancient history).

If you don't mind could we please fast forward to 2023?

Unions are not just passé....they are notoriously disregarded as institutions which focus on scamming, scabbing and rorting the honest worker.

And that's why union membership in Australia is more IRRELEVANT than ever. 👇

Absolute balderdash.

The biggest scammers & rorters of peoples labour i.e. wage theft are the businesses they work for & the non Unionised scabs who work along side them .... taking without contribution.

All business associations are Unions of Employers...

why the hypocrisy??

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Gnads

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Re: The Push For Fees For Non-Union Members
Reply #65 - Jan 24^th, 2023 at 4:06am

Jasin wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 6:22pm:

Yeah - nick off back to America with your Unionism.
Poor American Workers are neglected and having to work for a measly few dollars and beg for tips.

Australian Workers are over-paid. Australian Workers are one of the highest paid Workforces in the world.
Besides the high cost of living in this country.
The lack of Industry and other Businesses setting up shop here in this country is very apparent.

I've worked along side many a 'union member' and I've never seen an blatant apparent 'magical aura' of them being better than other workers. Most a piss-heads and druggos all trying to sponge more money with a strike or two a year. Most are 'Compo' rorters - coming in with injuries from whatever on the weekend to rig something up to make it appear like it happened at work.
Most famous was with the Wharfies and other major industries where the workers always had an extra bundy card to cover the cost of the beer slabs.

The Union is nothing more than a corrupt Mafia-like entity - that no-one wants in this country anymore.

Go help those poor American Workers.
What? You can only manage a few dollars for them?
You Unions must be really crap! Roll Eyes

...you're only here to feed your own Union pockets.

An infantile assessment at best ... clueless.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Gnads

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Re: The Push For Fees For Non-Union Members
Reply #66 - Jan 24^th, 2023 at 4:12am

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 6:43pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 6:16pm:

Nothing but a pack of scabs leeching off the worker in the Union paying the way for wage cases and fights over conditions....

Grandpa - that WAS the case wayyyyyyyt back in the 70's.

Not now. Ok?

The grubs of today ARE the unions! Their officials are earning top dollar while those workers they represent don't. The workers on the front lines are paying dues to fund the pay rises of those fat cats employed within the union movement.

The union movement is an institutional hierarchy that's politically aligned to Labor. Take a look at Bob Hawke and Bill Shorten for a clue. Those 2 political figures represent the period from the 1980's right through to the present. Whatever you knew of the union movement wayyyyy back in the day .... is gone. Fact!

What rot. Unionists/workers don't get ripped off/underpaid by Unions.

You wouldn't know what Union delegates get paid, most are in the workplace doing the same job as any other worker or member ...

and why wouldn't full time officials be paid reasonable salaries?

There's not one Union Official in this country that earns the obscene multi $million dollar salaries & bonuses paid to CEOs & business executives & govt bureaucrats.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: The Push For Fees For Non-Union Members
Reply #67 - Jan 24^th, 2023 at 5:38am

Gnads wrote on Jan 24^th, 2023 at 4:12am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 6:43pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 6:16pm:

Nothing but a pack of scabs leeching off the worker in the Union paying the way for wage cases and fights over conditions....

Grandpa - that WAS the case wayyyyyyyt back in the 70's.

Not now. Ok?

The grubs of today ARE the unions! Their officials are earning top dollar while those workers they represent don't. The workers on the front lines are paying dues to fund the pay rises of those fat cats employed within the union movement.

The union movement is an institutional hierarchy that's politically aligned to Labor. Take a look at Bob Hawke and Bill Shorten for a clue. Those 2 political figures represent the period from the 1980's right through to the present. Whatever you knew of the union movement wayyyyy back in the day .... is gone. Fact!

What rot. Unionists/workers don't get ripped off/underpaid by Unions.

You wouldn't know what Union delegates get paid, most are in the workplace doing the same job as any other worker or member ...

and why wouldn't full time officials be paid reasonable salaries?

There's not one Union Official in this country that earns the obscene multi $million dollar salaries & bonuses paid to CEOs & business executives & govt bureaucrats.

That's right - and they receive zero payment for their time and effort and even for putting their own jobs on the line to back their mates the Old Australian Way. Now we have the New Australian Way - erh.... yeah .... yeah .... we'll be right behind you... sure.... sure... true story..... if they get at you personally for representing us we'll back you to the hilt..... true story... then they run like scared rabbits and leave the delegate in the lurch.

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Jasin

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Re: The Push For Fees For Non-Union Members
Reply #68 - Jan 24^th, 2023 at 5:43am

Gnads wrote on Jan 24^th, 2023 at 4:06am:

Jasin wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 6:22pm:

Yeah - nick off back to America with your Unionism.
Poor American Workers are neglected and having to work for a measly few dollars and beg for tips.

Australian Workers are over-paid. Australian Workers are one of the highest paid Workforces in the world.
Besides the high cost of living in this country.
The lack of Industry and other Businesses setting up shop here in this country is very apparent.

I've worked along side many a 'union member' and I've never seen an blatant apparent 'magical aura' of them being better than other workers. Most a piss-heads and druggos all trying to sponge more money with a strike or two a year. Most are 'Compo' rorters - coming in with injuries from whatever on the weekend to rig something up to make it appear like it happened at work.
Most famous was with the Wharfies and other major industries where the workers always had an extra bundy card to cover the cost of the beer slabs.

The Union is nothing more than a corrupt Mafia-like entity - that no-one wants in this country anymore.

Go help those poor American Workers.
What? You can only manage a few dollars for them?
You Unions must be really crap! Roll Eyes

...you're only here to feed your own Union pockets.

An infantile assessment at best ... clueless.

And yet you have nothing to offer up to say otherwise.

I reckon you're the typical Ted Bullpit Union on the piss guy, eh?

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 74939 Gender:	Re: The Push For Fees For Non-Union Members Reply #69 - Jan 24^th, 2023 at 6:17am I don't know why you even bother replying to lusa or Xavier ... both have never done a day's work in their lives
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freediver

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Re: The Push For Fees For Non-Union Members
Reply #70 - Jan 24^th, 2023 at 6:35am

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:31pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:27pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:19pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:10pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:51am:

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:30am:

All we need is for grappler to start calling them scabs, and we will have gone through the entire repertoire of union recruitment. Again.

No need for name calling, or forcing people to join a union, or forcing them to pay other fees.

Let's be civil.

The solution is simple: union members get union-won entitlements, and non-members don't.

Only Medibank Private members get Medibank Private benefits. Yeah?

So, only union members should get union-won benefits.

I don't see how any reasonable person can be opposed to this simple, fair solution.

Sure. After all, most non-union members earn more anyway. The unions would have no trouble recruiting if they actually benefitted their members, rather than trying to claim credit for the sun coming up in the morning.

You don't see annual leave, sick pay, meal breaks, superannuation, maternity leave, penalty rates, etc. as benefits?

Sure I do. I also benefit from the sun coming up in the morning.

It doesn't actually come up.

The Earth revolves and creates the illusion of the sun rising over the horizon.

The sun isn't moving at all.

And yet I still benefit from it.

Unions would never allow employees to systematically pay different rates to union and non-union members. It would be the final nail in their coffin.

Watch their demands get more and more absurd as they fade into irrelevance.

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