Australian Politics Forum

Captain Caveman Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6211 Gender:	Re: Another one Reply #15 - Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:12pm This prick in the OP will be out in 5yrs anyway. Same as the turd that killed a woman and baby in Alexandra Hills a couple of years back. He's out soon. Hopefully he walks into a loaded 12 guage
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greggerypeccary

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Re: Another one
Reply #16 - Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:16pm

Captain Caveman wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:11pm:

I would love to hear some solutions to this problem.
Not solutions that cost taxpayers a fortune though.
Cost should be kept to a minimum.
Jail is like a 5 star holiday for most of them.

So let's find ways to prevent them from going there.

e.g.

- keep kids in school longer.

- restrict the availability of alcohol.

"There is strong evidence of an association between the consumption of alcohol and violence (Graham & Homel 2008). Conservative estimates suggest that in 2004–05, the total costs attributable to alcohol-related crime in Australia was $1.7b; the social cost relating to alcohol-related violence (which excludes costs to the criminal justice system) was $187m; and the costs associated with the loss of life due to alcohol-related violent crime amounted to $124m (Collins & Lapsley 2007)."

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Another one
Reply #17 - Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:25pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:04pm:

Increased police presence on the streets.

Increased public housing

Increased mental health services.

Increased drug & alcohol rehabilitation options.

A decrease in the availability of alcohol (e.g. reduced opening hours) and a rise in the legal drinking age.

Increase minimum age for dropping out of school.

Add: decrease in long-term unemployment, which in the case of black Aboriginals, adds resentment to a perception of cultural genocide among blacks.

Poor Alice, it was, and could be, a lovely town....

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Frank

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Re: Another one
Reply #18 - Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 1:14pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:04pm:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:55am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:43am:

Sophia wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:31am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:22am:

Kat wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:17am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:47am:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:45am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:32am:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 9:19am:

Time to put in place some serious consequences.

Do you believe harsher penalties will deter other would-be criminals?

Well the progressive softly softly counselling approach has been a dismal failure .....

the skyrocketing rate of juvenile crime is testament to that.

Yes, but do you believe harsher penalties will deter other would-be criminals?

It never has in the past, so why would it now?

Exactly.

US states which have the death penalty have higher murder rates than those which don't.

Harsher penalties are about revenge - they don't deter crime.

Unless I see stats or links to compare it… I ask… how can it be… harsher laws won’t deter criminal actions?
Does it all come down to each individual thinking it won’t happen to them?

US states which have the death penalty have higher murder rates than those which don't.

There is no harsher penalty than death so if harsh penalties actually deterred crime, murder wouldn't exist in the countries which have capital punishment.

Do harsher punishments deter crime?

It’s easy to think that the threat of punishment will simply dissuade someone from doing the wrong thing. But it turns out that deterring would-be criminals by instilling doubt or fear of the consequences is more tale than truth.

“Deterrence is very largely an article of faith,” says UNSW Law Emeritus Professor David Brown. “I call it sentencing’s dirty secret because it’s just assumed that there is deterrence … but what the research shows is that the system has little to no deterrent effect.”

The criminal justice researcher says harsher punishments, such as longer prison sentences, not only do not prevent crime but may actually have the opposite effect.

“What research is increasingly showing is that imprisonment itself and punishment more generally is actually criminogenic – it makes it more likely that people are going to re-offend,” he says.

Yeah ... so your stating the reasons why not.....

how about some answers as to how it can be reduced?

Increased police presence on the streets.

What would be the point, shitfer, if deterrence is not effective, as you argued out of the other corner of your mouth a minute ago?

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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Gnads

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Re: Another one
Reply #19 - Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 1:26pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:04pm:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:55am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:43am:

Sophia wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:31am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:22am:

Kat wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:17am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:47am:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:45am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:32am:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 9:19am:

Time to put in place some serious consequences.

Do you believe harsher penalties will deter other would-be criminals?

Well the progressive softly softly counselling approach has been a dismal failure .....

the skyrocketing rate of juvenile crime is testament to that.

Yes, but do you believe harsher penalties will deter other would-be criminals?

It never has in the past, so why would it now?

Exactly.

US states which have the death penalty have higher murder rates than those which don't.

Harsher penalties are about revenge - they don't deter crime.

Unless I see stats or links to compare it… I ask… how can it be… harsher laws won’t deter criminal actions?
Does it all come down to each individual thinking it won’t happen to them?

US states which have the death penalty have higher murder rates than those which don't.

There is no harsher penalty than death so if harsh penalties actually deterred crime, murder wouldn't exist in the countries which have capital punishment.

Do harsher punishments deter crime?

It’s easy to think that the threat of punishment will simply dissuade someone from doing the wrong thing. But it turns out that deterring would-be criminals by instilling doubt or fear of the consequences is more tale than truth.

“Deterrence is very largely an article of faith,” says UNSW Law Emeritus Professor David Brown. “I call it sentencing’s dirty secret because it’s just assumed that there is deterrence … but what the research shows is that the system has little to no deterrent effect.”

The criminal justice researcher says harsher punishments, such as longer prison sentences, not only do not prevent crime but may actually have the opposite effect.

“What research is increasingly showing is that imprisonment itself and punishment more generally is actually criminogenic – it makes it more likely that people are going to re-offend,” he says.

Yeah ... so your stating the reasons why not.....

how about some answers as to how it can be reduced?

Increased police presence on the streets. (Been tried didn't work
)

Increased public housing

(wheres the funding coming from)

Increased mental health services.
(agree too many nutters on the streets)

Increased drug & alcohol rehabilitation options.
(how much more)

A decrease in the availability of alcohol (e.g. reduced opening hours) and a rise in the legal drinking age.

(Really? a Labor Prime Minister Gough Whitlam bought it & the voting age down to 18 - I bet you were in Pubs at 18)

Increase minimum age for dropping out of school.
(They did - they increased it to year 12 - turning 17 yrs old)

No banana Peccar.

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« Last Edit: Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 1:32pm by Gnads »

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Gnads

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Re: Another one
Reply #20 - Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 1:40pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:16pm:

Captain Caveman wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:11pm:

I would love to hear some solutions to this problem.
Not solutions that cost taxpayers a fortune though.
Cost should be kept to a minimum.
Jail is like a 5 star holiday for most of them.

So let's find ways to prevent them from going there.

e.g.

- keep kids in school longer.

- restrict the availability of alcohol.

"There is strong evidence of an association between the consumption of alcohol and violence (Graham & Homel 2008). Conservative estimates suggest that in 2004–05, the total costs attributable to alcohol-related crime in Australia was $1.7b; the social cost relating to alcohol-related violence (which excludes costs to the criminal justice system) was $187m; and the costs associated with the loss of life due to alcohol-related violent crime amounted to $124m (Collins & Lapsley 2007)."

They did back in the 80's ...

re: alcohol Grin

Prohibition?????

You're joking right ..... don't want to jail them because it turns them into criminals but ban access to alcohol?

All the Labor state & territory Premiers & Chief Officers repealed the alcohol restrictions in every remote community, town or city.

You can vote when you're 18 - why would you think it reasonable to increase that age allowing you to enter a pub?

You got lefties who want to reduce the voting age to 16 .... everything you're suggesting flies in the face of left wing ideas.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Kat

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Socialism IS the answer.

Posts: 17709
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Re: Another one
Reply #21 - Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 1:51pm

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 1:40pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:16pm:

Captain Caveman wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:11pm:

I would love to hear some solutions to this problem.
Not solutions that cost taxpayers a fortune though.
Cost should be kept to a minimum.
Jail is like a 5 star holiday for most of them.

So let's find ways to prevent them from going there.

e.g.

- keep kids in school longer.

- restrict the availability of alcohol.

"There is strong evidence of an association between the consumption of alcohol and violence (Graham & Homel 2008). Conservative estimates suggest that in 2004–05, the total costs attributable to alcohol-related crime in Australia was $1.7b; the social cost relating to alcohol-related violence (which excludes costs to the criminal justice system) was $187m; and the costs associated with the loss of life due to alcohol-related violent crime amounted to $124m (Collins & Lapsley 2007)."

They did back in the 80's ...

re: alcohol Grin

Prohibition?????

You're joking right ..... don't want to jail them because it turns them into criminals but ban access to alcohol?

All the Labor state & territory Premiers & Chief Officers repealed the alcohol restrictions in every remote community, town or city.

You can vote when you're 18 - why would you think it reasonable to increase that age allowing you to enter a pub?

You got lefties who want to reduce the voting age to 16

.... everything you're suggesting flies in the face of left wing ideas.

Not all (or even most) of them.

I certainly don't, and nor do most of my 'lefty' friends and acquaintances.

The extreme Left do, but they're as bad as the extreme Right - a bunch of nutters.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Another one
Reply #22 - Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 1:56pm

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 1:40pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:16pm:

Captain Caveman wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:11pm:

I would love to hear some solutions to this problem.
Not solutions that cost taxpayers a fortune though.
Cost should be kept to a minimum.
Jail is like a 5 star holiday for most of them.

So let's find ways to prevent them from going there.

e.g.

- keep kids in school longer.

- restrict the availability of alcohol.

"There is strong evidence of an association between the consumption of alcohol and violence (Graham & Homel 2008). Conservative estimates suggest that in 2004–05, the total costs attributable to alcohol-related crime in Australia was $1.7b; the social cost relating to alcohol-related violence (which excludes costs to the criminal justice system) was $187m; and the costs associated with the loss of life due to alcohol-related violent crime amounted to $124m (Collins & Lapsley 2007)."

They did back in the 80's ...

re: alcohol Grin

Prohibition?????

You're joking right ..... don't want to jail them because it turns them into criminals but ban access to alcohol?

I'm not sure whose post you're reading, but it's not mine.

I didn't say anything about banning alcohol Undecided

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Another one
Reply #23 - Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:03pm

Frank wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 1:14pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:04pm:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:55am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:43am:

Sophia wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:31am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:22am:

Kat wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:17am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:47am:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:45am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:32am:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 9:19am:

Time to put in place some serious consequences.

Do you believe harsher penalties will deter other would-be criminals?

Well the progressive softly softly counselling approach has been a dismal failure .....

the skyrocketing rate of juvenile crime is testament to that.

Yes, but do you believe harsher penalties will deter other would-be criminals?

It never has in the past, so why would it now?

Exactly.

US states which have the death penalty have higher murder rates than those which don't.

Harsher penalties are about revenge - they don't deter crime.

Unless I see stats or links to compare it… I ask… how can it be… harsher laws won’t deter criminal actions?
Does it all come down to each individual thinking it won’t happen to them?

US states which have the death penalty have higher murder rates than those which don't.

There is no harsher penalty than death so if harsh penalties actually deterred crime, murder wouldn't exist in the countries which have capital punishment.

Do harsher punishments deter crime?

It’s easy to think that the threat of punishment will simply dissuade someone from doing the wrong thing. But it turns out that deterring would-be criminals by instilling doubt or fear of the consequences is more tale than truth.

“Deterrence is very largely an article of faith,” says UNSW Law Emeritus Professor David Brown. “I call it sentencing’s dirty secret because it’s just assumed that there is deterrence … but what the research shows is that the system has little to no deterrent effect.”

The criminal justice researcher says harsher punishments, such as longer prison sentences, not only do not prevent crime but may actually have the opposite effect.

“What research is increasingly showing is that imprisonment itself and punishment more generally is actually criminogenic – it makes it more likely that people are going to re-offend,” he says.

Yeah ... so your stating the reasons why not.....

how about some answers as to how it can be reduced?

Increased police presence on the streets.

What would be the point,

Deterrence.

Most people, not all, won't commit a crime in front of a police officer or if a police officer is nearby.

They can see the danger - the police officer - and it makes them think twice.

You can't see a prison sentence, thus it is next to useless in deterring crime.

"A large and growing body of academic literature confirms that police presence deters crime and helps maintain public order".

Jon Guze, Senior Fellow, Legal Studies, John Locke Foundation

March 17, 2022

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aquascoot

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Re: Another one
Reply #24 - Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:04pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:04pm:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:55am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:43am:

Sophia wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:31am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:22am:

Kat wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:17am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:47am:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:45am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:32am:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 9:19am:

Time to put in place some serious consequences.

Do you believe harsher penalties will deter other would-be criminals?

Well the progressive softly softly counselling approach has been a dismal failure .....

the skyrocketing rate of juvenile crime is testament to that.

Yes, but do you believe harsher penalties will deter other would-be criminals?

It never has in the past, so why would it now?

Exactly.

US states which have the death penalty have higher murder rates than those which don't.

Harsher penalties are about revenge - they don't deter crime.

Unless I see stats or links to compare it… I ask… how can it be… harsher laws won’t deter criminal actions?
Does it all come down to each individual thinking it won’t happen to them?

US states which have the death penalty have higher murder rates than those which don't.

There is no harsher penalty than death so if harsh penalties actually deterred crime, murder wouldn't exist in the countries which have capital punishment.

Do harsher punishments deter crime?

It’s easy to think that the threat of punishment will simply dissuade someone from doing the wrong thing. But it turns out that deterring would-be criminals by instilling doubt or fear of the consequences is more tale than truth.

“Deterrence is very largely an article of faith,” says UNSW Law Emeritus Professor David Brown. “I call it sentencing’s dirty secret because it’s just assumed that there is deterrence … but what the research shows is that the system has little to no deterrent effect.”

The criminal justice researcher says harsher punishments, such as longer prison sentences, not only do not prevent crime but may actually have the opposite effect.

“What research is increasingly showing is that imprisonment itself and punishment more generally is actually criminogenic – it makes it more likely that people are going to re-offend,” he says.

Yeah ... so your stating the reasons why not.....

how about some answers as to how it can be reduced?

Increased police presence on the streets.

Increased public housing

Increased mental health services.

Increased drug & alcohol rehabilitation options.

A decrease in the availability of alcohol (e.g. reduced opening hours) and a rise in the legal drinking age.

Increase minimum age for dropping out of school.

these solutions are all "reactive"
the population have to venture forth into the streets on a saturday night and there will always be danger

rather then trying to coat the streets with nerf gel foam.

it is better to become the sort of individual who can handle a situation.

this 40 yo guy could have spent an hour a day learning a martial art.

relying on an authority figure to help you is always a foolish move

try to be like this guy

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Another one
Reply #25 - Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:09pm

aquascoot wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:04pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:04pm:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:55am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:43am:

Sophia wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:31am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:22am:

Kat wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:17am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:47am:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:45am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:32am:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 9:19am:

Time to put in place some serious consequences.

Do you believe harsher penalties will deter other would-be criminals?

Well the progressive softly softly counselling approach has been a dismal failure .....

the skyrocketing rate of juvenile crime is testament to that.

Yes, but do you believe harsher penalties will deter other would-be criminals?

It never has in the past, so why would it now?

Exactly.

US states which have the death penalty have higher murder rates than those which don't.

Harsher penalties are about revenge - they don't deter crime.

Unless I see stats or links to compare it… I ask… how can it be… harsher laws won’t deter criminal actions?
Does it all come down to each individual thinking it won’t happen to them?

US states which have the death penalty have higher murder rates than those which don't.

There is no harsher penalty than death so if harsh penalties actually deterred crime, murder wouldn't exist in the countries which have capital punishment.

Do harsher punishments deter crime?

It’s easy to think that the threat of punishment will simply dissuade someone from doing the wrong thing. But it turns out that deterring would-be criminals by instilling doubt or fear of the consequences is more tale than truth.

“Deterrence is very largely an article of faith,” says UNSW Law Emeritus Professor David Brown. “I call it sentencing’s dirty secret because it’s just assumed that there is deterrence … but what the research shows is that the system has little to no deterrent effect.”

The criminal justice researcher says harsher punishments, such as longer prison sentences, not only do not prevent crime but may actually have the opposite effect.

“What research is increasingly showing is that imprisonment itself and punishment more generally is actually criminogenic – it makes it more likely that people are going to re-offend,” he says.

Yeah ... so your stating the reasons why not.....

how about some answers as to how it can be reduced?

Increased police presence on the streets.

Increased public housing

Increased mental health services.

Increased drug & alcohol rehabilitation options.

A decrease in the availability of alcohol (e.g. reduced opening hours) and a rise in the legal drinking age.

Increase minimum age for dropping out of school.

these solutions are all "reactive"

They're preventative.

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aquascoot

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Posts: 35010
Gender: male

Re: Another one
Reply #26 - Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:15pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:09pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:04pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:04pm:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:55am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:43am:

Sophia wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:31am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:22am:

Kat wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:17am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:47am:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:45am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:32am:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 9:19am:

Time to put in place some serious consequences.

Do you believe harsher penalties will deter other would-be criminals?

Well the progressive softly softly counselling approach has been a dismal failure .....

the skyrocketing rate of juvenile crime is testament to that.

Yes, but do you believe harsher penalties will deter other would-be criminals?

It never has in the past, so why would it now?

Exactly.

US states which have the death penalty have higher murder rates than those which don't.

Harsher penalties are about revenge - they don't deter crime.

Unless I see stats or links to compare it… I ask… how can it be… harsher laws won’t deter criminal actions?
Does it all come down to each individual thinking it won’t happen to them?

US states which have the death penalty have higher murder rates than those which don't.

There is no harsher penalty than death so if harsh penalties actually deterred crime, murder wouldn't exist in the countries which have capital punishment.

Do harsher punishments deter crime?

It’s easy to think that the threat of punishment will simply dissuade someone from doing the wrong thing. But it turns out that deterring would-be criminals by instilling doubt or fear of the consequences is more tale than truth.

“Deterrence is very largely an article of faith,” says UNSW Law Emeritus Professor David Brown. “I call it sentencing’s dirty secret because it’s just assumed that there is deterrence … but what the research shows is that the system has little to no deterrent effect.”

The criminal justice researcher says harsher punishments, such as longer prison sentences, not only do not prevent crime but may actually have the opposite effect.

“What research is increasingly showing is that imprisonment itself and punishment more generally is actually criminogenic – it makes it more likely that people are going to re-offend,” he says.

Yeah ... so your stating the reasons why not.....

how about some answers as to how it can be reduced?

Increased police presence on the streets.

Increased public housing

Increased mental health services.

Increased drug & alcohol rehabilitation options.

A decrease in the availability of alcohol (e.g. reduced opening hours) and a rise in the legal drinking age.

Increase minimum age for dropping out of school.

these solutions are all "reactive"

They're preventative.

theres nothing as addicitve as something that 'almost works'

more cops , more mental health services, more education almost works.

but there arent enough cops and there isnt enough nerf in the world to make you completely safe.

so you need to take action and improve your skillset

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Another one
Reply #27 - Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:22pm

aquascoot wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:15pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:09pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:04pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:04pm:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:55am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:43am:

Sophia wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:31am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:22am:

Kat wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:17am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:47am:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:45am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:32am:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 9:19am:

Time to put in place some serious consequences.

Do you believe harsher penalties will deter other would-be criminals?

Well the progressive softly softly counselling approach has been a dismal failure .....

the skyrocketing rate of juvenile crime is testament to that.

Yes, but do you believe harsher penalties will deter other would-be criminals?

It never has in the past, so why would it now?

Exactly.

US states which have the death penalty have higher murder rates than those which don't.

Harsher penalties are about revenge - they don't deter crime.

Unless I see stats or links to compare it… I ask… how can it be… harsher laws won’t deter criminal actions?
Does it all come down to each individual thinking it won’t happen to them?

US states which have the death penalty have higher murder rates than those which don't.

There is no harsher penalty than death so if harsh penalties actually deterred crime, murder wouldn't exist in the countries which have capital punishment.

Do harsher punishments deter crime?

It’s easy to think that the threat of punishment will simply dissuade someone from doing the wrong thing. But it turns out that deterring would-be criminals by instilling doubt or fear of the consequences is more tale than truth.

“Deterrence is very largely an article of faith,” says UNSW Law Emeritus Professor David Brown. “I call it sentencing’s dirty secret because it’s just assumed that there is deterrence … but what the research shows is that the system has little to no deterrent effect.”

The criminal justice researcher says harsher punishments, such as longer prison sentences, not only do not prevent crime but may actually have the opposite effect.

“What research is increasingly showing is that imprisonment itself and punishment more generally is actually criminogenic – it makes it more likely that people are going to re-offend,” he says.

Yeah ... so your stating the reasons why not.....

how about some answers as to how it can be reduced?

Increased police presence on the streets.

Increased public housing

Increased mental health services.

Increased drug & alcohol rehabilitation options.

A decrease in the availability of alcohol (e.g. reduced opening hours) and a rise in the legal drinking age.

Increase minimum age for dropping out of school.

these solutions are all "reactive"

They're preventative.

theres nothing as addicitve as something that 'almost works'

more cops , more mental health services, more education almost works.

but there arent enough cops and there isnt enough nerf in the world to make you completely safe.

so you need to take action and improve your skillset

Such a defeatist attitude.

Sad.

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aquascoot

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Re: Another one
Reply #28 - Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:32pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:22pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:15pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:09pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:04pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:04pm:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:55am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:43am:

Sophia wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:31am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:22am:

Kat wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:17am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:47am:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:45am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:32am:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 9:19am:

Time to put in place some serious consequences.

Do you believe harsher penalties will deter other would-be criminals?

Well the progressive softly softly counselling approach has been a dismal failure .....

the skyrocketing rate of juvenile crime is testament to that.

Yes, but do you believe harsher penalties will deter other would-be criminals?

It never has in the past, so why would it now?

Exactly.

US states which have the death penalty have higher murder rates than those which don't.

Harsher penalties are about revenge - they don't deter crime.

Unless I see stats or links to compare it… I ask… how can it be… harsher laws won’t deter criminal actions?
Does it all come down to each individual thinking it won’t happen to them?

US states which have the death penalty have higher murder rates than those which don't.

There is no harsher penalty than death so if harsh penalties actually deterred crime, murder wouldn't exist in the countries which have capital punishment.

Do harsher punishments deter crime?

It’s easy to think that the threat of punishment will simply dissuade someone from doing the wrong thing. But it turns out that deterring would-be criminals by instilling doubt or fear of the consequences is more tale than truth.

“Deterrence is very largely an article of faith,” says UNSW Law Emeritus Professor David Brown. “I call it sentencing’s dirty secret because it’s just assumed that there is deterrence … but what the research shows is that the system has little to no deterrent effect.”

The criminal justice researcher says harsher punishments, such as longer prison sentences, not only do not prevent crime but may actually have the opposite effect.

“What research is increasingly showing is that imprisonment itself and punishment more generally is actually criminogenic – it makes it more likely that people are going to re-offend,” he says.

Yeah ... so your stating the reasons why not.....

how about some answers as to how it can be reduced?

Increased police presence on the streets.

Increased public housing

Increased mental health services.

Increased drug & alcohol rehabilitation options.

A decrease in the availability of alcohol (e.g. reduced opening hours) and a rise in the legal drinking age.

Increase minimum age for dropping out of school.

these solutions are all "reactive"

They're preventative.

theres nothing as addicitve as something that 'almost works'

more cops , more mental health services, more education almost works.

but there arent enough cops and there isnt enough nerf in the world to make you completely safe.

so you need to take action and improve your skillset

Such a defeatist attitude.

Sad.

let me know when your utopia arrives.

until then i'll put my faith in the awesomeness of personal responsibility.

life is the way it is but only 100 % of the time

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Another one
Reply #29 - Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 3:14pm

aquascoot wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:32pm:

let me know when your utopia arrives.

We have to expose the greedy, ego-driven, self-interested filth of the delusional 'natural individual rights' BS, for that to happen.

And people are waking up to where 'sovereignty' really lays, ie not in the individual, but in law.

Quote:

until then i'll put my faith in the awesomeness of personal responsibility.

Personal responsibility is good all the time.

Quote:

life is the way it is but only 100 % of the time

until an understanding of sovereignty progresses beyond mere self-interest.

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