Australian Politics Forum

AusGeoff

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Sage of Gippsland

Posts: 6002
Victoria
Gender: male

Re: Another one
Reply #30 - Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 3:19pm

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:45am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:32am:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 9:19am:

Time to put in place some serious consequences.

Do you believe harsher penalties will deter other would-be criminals?

Well the progressive softly softly counselling approach has been a dismal failure .....

the skyrocketing rate of juvenile crime is testament to that.

Yes. I agree that the current approach to youth crime is obviously
not working, and needs new, serious reconsideration.

One of the major issues is the lax approach from magistrates, who
invariably focus on the rehabilitation of the youthful transgressor at
the expense of his/her victims. All too often, these young criminals
are already on probation for previous criminal convictions, and should
instead have been in a youth detention facility.

And again, too many of these young offenders know they'll get off
lightly—often pleading physically abusive childhoods, drug abuse,
depressive disorders, alcoholic parents or absent parents, or peer
group pressures etc. All of which is neither here nor there from the
perspective of their victims—it doesn't assuage the often life changing
effects they suffer from assaults or home invasions or other crimes
of violence.

My solution would be immediate incarceration in a youth detention
centre for any crime involving (say) physical violence, vehicle theft,
property damage and arson, aggravated burglary, gang violence,
sexual assault etc.

I know people say jailing isn't effective, and often exacerbates the
already antisocial mindset of the offender, and can also lead to the
negative effects of contact with more hardened criminals.

But... jailing them undeniably prevents them from committing further
crimes against innocent parties. Which is why so often bail is a failure.
And isn't the protection of law abiding citizens and their property the
foremost factor here? It has to be.

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AusGeoff

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Sage of Gippsland

Posts: 6002
Victoria
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Re: Another one
Reply #31 - Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 3:30pm

aquascoot wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:32pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:22pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:15pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:09pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:04pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:04pm:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:55am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:43am:

Sophia wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:31am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:22am:

Kat wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:17am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:47am:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:45am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:32am:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 9:19am:

Time to put in place some serious consequences.

Do you believe harsher penalties will deter other would-be criminals?

Well the progressive softly softly counselling approach has been a dismal failure .....

the skyrocketing rate of juvenile crime is testament to that.

Yes, but do you believe harsher penalties will deter other would-be criminals?

It never has in the past, so why would it now?

Exactly.

US states which have the death penalty have higher murder rates than those which don't.

Harsher penalties are about revenge - they don't deter crime.

Unless I see stats or links to compare it… I ask… how can it be… harsher laws won’t deter criminal actions?
Does it all come down to each individual thinking it won’t happen to them?

US states which have the death penalty have higher murder rates than those which don't.

There is no harsher penalty than death so if harsh penalties actually deterred crime, murder wouldn't exist in the countries which have capital punishment.

Do harsher punishments deter crime?

It’s easy to think that the threat of punishment will simply dissuade someone from doing the wrong thing. But it turns out that deterring would-be criminals by instilling doubt or fear of the consequences is more tale than truth.

“Deterrence is very largely an article of faith,” says UNSW Law Emeritus Professor David Brown. “I call it sentencing’s dirty secret because it’s just assumed that there is deterrence … but what the research shows is that the system has little to no deterrent effect.”

The criminal justice researcher says harsher punishments, such as longer prison sentences, not only do not prevent crime but may actually have the opposite effect.

“What research is increasingly showing is that imprisonment itself and punishment more generally is actually criminogenic – it makes it more likely that people are going to re-offend,” he says.

Yeah ... so your stating the reasons why not.....

how about some answers as to how it can be reduced?

Increased police presence on the streets.

Increased public housing

Increased mental health services.

Increased drug & alcohol rehabilitation options.

A decrease in the availability of alcohol (e.g. reduced opening hours) and a rise in the legal drinking age.

Increase minimum age for dropping out of school.

these solutions are all "reactive"

They're preventative.

theres nothing as addicitve as something that 'almost works'

more cops , more mental health services, more education almost works.

but there arent enough cops and there isnt enough nerf in the world to make you completely safe.

so you need to take action and improve your skillset

Such a defeatist attitude.

Sad.

let me know when your utopia arrives.

until then i'll put my faith in the awesomeness of personal responsibility.

life is the way it is but only 100 % of the time

Strewth! Can the admin here limit the number of nested quotes please. Shocked

THIRTEEN is just too much, and the current comment can often bear only
a vague connection with the first couple of quotes. I'd suggest only three.

If that's not okay, how about people strip out some before they post their
comment, in this case maybe ten of the earliest ones?

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thegreatdivide

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Posts: 13099
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Re: Another one
Reply #32 - Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 3:38pm

AusGeoff wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 3:19pm:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:45am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:32am:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 9:19am:

Time to put in place some serious consequences.

Do you believe harsher penalties will deter other would-be criminals?

Well the progressive softly softly counselling approach has been a dismal failure .....

the skyrocketing rate of juvenile crime is testament to that.

Yes. I agree that the current approach to youth crime is obviously
not working, and needs new, serious reconsideration.

One of the major issues is the lax approach from magistrates, who
invariably focus on the rehabilitation of the youthful transgressor at
the expense of his/her victims. All too often, these young criminals
are already on probation for previous criminal convictions, and should
instead have been in a youth detention facility.

And again, too many of these young offenders know they'll get off
lightly—often pleading physically abusive childhoods, drug abuse,
depressive disorders, alcoholic parents or absent parents, or peer
group pressures etc. All of which is neither here nor there from the
perspective of their victims—it doesn't assuage the often life changing
effects they suffer from assaults or home invasions or other crimes
of violence.

My solution would be immediate incarceration in a youth detention
centre for any crime involving (say) physical violence, vehicle theft,
property damage and arson, aggravated burglary, gang violence,
sexual assault etc.

I know people say jailing isn't effective, and often exacerbates the
already antisocial mindset of the offender, and can also lead to the
negative effects of contact with more hardened criminals.

But... jailing them undeniably prevents them from committing further
crimes against innocent parties. Which is why so often bail is a failure.
And isn't the protection of law abiding citizens and their property the
foremost factor here? It has to be.

reasonable post....except everyone including the police and the magistrates know you can't arrest your way out of the problem, we just don't have enough detention facilities and judicial staff. Blacks are already the most incarcerated people (per population) on the planet.

Any other solutions....?

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Frank

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Re: Another one
Reply #33 - Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 3:45pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:03pm:

Frank wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 1:14pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:04pm:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:55am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:43am:

Sophia wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:31am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:22am:

Kat wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:17am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:47am:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:45am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:32am:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 9:19am:

Time to put in place some serious consequences.

Do you believe harsher penalties will deter other would-be criminals?

Well the progressive softly softly counselling approach has been a dismal failure .....

the skyrocketing rate of juvenile crime is testament to that.

Yes, but do you believe harsher penalties will deter other would-be criminals?

It never has in the past, so why would it now?

Exactly.

US states which have the death penalty have higher murder rates than those which don't.

Harsher penalties are about revenge - they don't deter crime.

Unless I see stats or links to compare it… I ask… how can it be… harsher laws won’t deter criminal actions?
Does it all come down to each individual thinking it won’t happen to them?

US states which have the death penalty have higher murder rates than those which don't.

There is no harsher penalty than death so if harsh penalties actually deterred crime, murder wouldn't exist in the countries which have capital punishment.

Do harsher punishments deter crime?

It’s easy to think that the threat of punishment will simply dissuade someone from doing the wrong thing. But it turns out that deterring would-be criminals by instilling doubt or fear of the consequences is more tale than truth.

“Deterrence is very largely an article of faith,” says UNSW Law Emeritus Professor David Brown. “I call it sentencing’s dirty secret because it’s just assumed that there is deterrence … but what the research shows is that the system has little to no deterrent effect.”

The criminal justice researcher says harsher punishments, such as longer prison sentences, not only do not prevent crime but may actually have the opposite effect.

“What research is increasingly showing is that imprisonment itself and punishment more generally is actually criminogenic – it makes it more likely that people are going to re-offend,” he says.

Yeah ... so your stating the reasons why not.....

how about some answers as to how it can be reduced?

Increased police presence on the streets.

What would be the point, shitfer, if deterrence is not effective, as you argued out of the other corner of your mouth a minute ago?

Deterrence.

Most people, not all, won't commit a crime in front of a police officer or if a police officer is nearby.

Not if there is no arrest and jail, shitfer. Which is what you argued fof a minute ago.

Just standing around and not arresting and punishing wrongdoing is useless.
See Srebrenica - the UN was all there, blue helmets and uniforms and all, doing FA, watching a massacre.

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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thegreatdivide

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Posts: 13099
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Re: Another one
Reply #34 - Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 3:51pm

Frank wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 3:45pm:

Just standing around and not arresting and punishing wrongdoing is useless.
See Srebrenica - the UN was all there, blue helmets and uniforms and all, doing FA, watching a massacre.

Good example, except the UN's committed resources - as always - were puny alongside those of the wrong-doers.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Another one
Reply #35 - Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 3:54pm

Frank wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 3:45pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:03pm:

Frank wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 1:14pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:04pm:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:55am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:43am:

Sophia wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:31am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:22am:

Kat wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:17am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:47am:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:45am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:32am:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 9:19am:

Time to put in place some serious consequences.

Do you believe harsher penalties will deter other would-be criminals?

Well the progressive softly softly counselling approach has been a dismal failure .....

the skyrocketing rate of juvenile crime is testament to that.

Yes, but do you believe harsher penalties will deter other would-be criminals?

It never has in the past, so why would it now?

Exactly.

US states which have the death penalty have higher murder rates than those which don't.

Harsher penalties are about revenge - they don't deter crime.

Unless I see stats or links to compare it… I ask… how can it be… harsher laws won’t deter criminal actions?
Does it all come down to each individual thinking it won’t happen to them?

US states which have the death penalty have higher murder rates than those which don't.

There is no harsher penalty than death so if harsh penalties actually deterred crime, murder wouldn't exist in the countries which have capital punishment.

Do harsher punishments deter crime?

It’s easy to think that the threat of punishment will simply dissuade someone from doing the wrong thing. But it turns out that deterring would-be criminals by instilling doubt or fear of the consequences is more tale than truth.

“Deterrence is very largely an article of faith,” says UNSW Law Emeritus Professor David Brown. “I call it sentencing’s dirty secret because it’s just assumed that there is deterrence … but what the research shows is that the system has little to no deterrent effect.”

The criminal justice researcher says harsher punishments, such as longer prison sentences, not only do not prevent crime but may actually have the opposite effect.

“What research is increasingly showing is that imprisonment itself and punishment more generally is actually criminogenic – it makes it more likely that people are going to re-offend,” he says.

Yeah ... so your stating the reasons why not.....

how about some answers as to how it can be reduced?

Increased police presence on the streets.

What would be the point, shitfer, if deterrence is not effective, as you argued out of the other corner of your mouth a minute ago?

Deterrence.

Most people, not all, won't commit a crime in front of a police officer or if a police officer is nearby.

Not if there is no arrest and jail, shitfer. Which is what you argued fof a minute ago.

Nope. Not me.

I didn't say people shouldn't be arrested and sent to jail.

You been drinking today? Undecided

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Jasin

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Re: Another one
Reply #36 - Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 3:56pm

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 9:19am:

It's high time something more comprehensive was done about juvenile crime.

This is not a boy as they stated - he is a late teen - a young man... the punishment must fit the crime.

Courier Mail today - paywalled.

Quote:

‘KILLED BY A COWARD’
Murder charge for teen caught with 45cm knife
THOMAS CHAMBERLIN
YOUTH CRIME CRISIS: MAN STABBED WALKING HOME

A BOY has been charged with murdering a Wilston man by stabbing him to death less than a kilometre from his home in the upmarket inner Brisbane suburb.

Detective Superintendent Andrew Massingham said the man, 43, was found by a member of the public about 1.40am, directly opposite the
Wilston train station, with critical injuries. He died at the scene despite paramedics trying to save him. Ninety minutes before the man was found
– just after midnight – police arrested two teens who had come to the attention of officers on a nearby stretch of Newmarket Rd.

The boy, 17, was allegedly found with a 45cm knife, described by Superintendent Massingham as “almost a small machete”, which was in a
sheath hidden beneath his clothing.

He said the boy and a teenage girl – who was not charged over the death – were taken to a “place of safety”, as is procedure when locating juveniles.

They were later arrested at that address after the stabbed man was found.

Superintendent Massingham said the crime scene was horrific. “These cowardly attacks are abhorrent, no place for them in society,” he said.

Opposition Leader David Crisafulli called on Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk – who returns from holiday today – to recall parliament to
debate “the youth crime epidemic”.

No more talk/debate they been doing that for decades.

Time to put in place some serious consequences.

Ok you Unionised parasitic Yankee Prole.

A 'teenager' be they 11 or 19 are not young 'adults'.
They are still children or 'youth' or kids. A 19 year old is still a kid as much as a 13 year old is - both of whom are both 'teenagers' you numpty!
You obviously thought at 18-19 that you were an 'adult' like a premature ejaculation. Grin

Remember the saying, "The thoughts of youth, are long long thoughts"

Also - when it comes to dealing with 'youth/kids/teenies'.
Do you think its about handling the situation like Aussie with his BIG HANDS?
Another stupid Unionised 'cultural' failing?
Of course.
When some 'kid' - be they 13 or 19 tries to use their 'emotional blackmail' for violence against me. I've never, as a Man/Adult, had to use 'BIG HANDS' to deal with them.
The mere threat of my BIG FEMALE FRIEND T'UAFA coming to smash their heads in shuts them up big time because when it comes to Women giving kids a whacking - there is no 'emotional blackmail' involved. If big Mumma or Sister or even Female Cops, Security, etc come in swinging - then the kids are gonna cop a beating.
None of this 'big bully' Prison Men by the Media because they put bags over 'kids' who spit.

If a 19 year old in court said "That woman wacked me!" the Judge would laugh and say "Good - you deserved it!" Cool

But if a male adult did it - its 'abuse'. Angry

Especially as seen by the Media and Lefties.

...are you starting to get it Union boy?

...and if that 19 year old decides he can get away with abusing that female - then that's when an Adult Male can come in and deal whatever punishment he likes. Wink

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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Gnads

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Re: Another one
Reply #37 - Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 6:54pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 1:56pm:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 1:40pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:16pm:

Captain Caveman wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:11pm:

I would love to hear some solutions to this problem.
Not solutions that cost taxpayers a fortune though.
Cost should be kept to a minimum.
Jail is like a 5 star holiday for most of them.

So let's find ways to prevent them from going there.

e.g.

- keep kids in school longer.

- restrict the availability of alcohol.

"There is strong evidence of an association between the consumption of alcohol and violence (Graham & Homel 2008). Conservative estimates suggest that in 2004–05, the total costs attributable to alcohol-related crime in Australia was $1.7b; the social cost relating to alcohol-related violence (which excludes costs to the criminal justice system) was $187m; and the costs associated with the loss of life due to alcohol-related violent crime amounted to $124m (Collins & Lapsley 2007)."

They did back in the 80's ...

re: alcohol Grin

Prohibition?????

You're joking right ..... don't want to jail them because it turns them into criminals but ban access to alcohol?

I'm not sure whose post you're reading, but it's not mine.

I didn't say anything about banning alcohol Undecided

Ok then how are you going to restrict it?

Increasing the age? What... back to 21? Grin

The opt out age for school has been mandatory year 12 for decades.

All that did was keep kids in school instead of getting apprenticeships at 15(after year 10) which in turn kept the number of young people unemployed statistically lower.

Some aspects of Labor policy has come back to bite them on the arse in this regard.

They haven't done diddly squat to assist in re-instating TAFE colleges or apprenticeship schemes.

And you know where my allegiances lie & it aint with the LNP. But Labor isn't off the hook.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Gnads

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Re: Another one
Reply #38 - Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 7:03pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:03pm:

Frank wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 1:14pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:04pm:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:55am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:43am:

Sophia wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:31am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:22am:

Kat wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:17am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:47am:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:45am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:32am:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 9:19am:

Time to put in place some serious consequences.

Do you believe harsher penalties will deter other would-be criminals?

Well the progressive softly softly counselling approach has been a dismal failure .....

the skyrocketing rate of juvenile crime is testament to that.

Yes, but do you believe harsher penalties will deter other would-be criminals?

It never has in the past, so why would it now?

Exactly.

US states which have the death penalty have higher murder rates than those which don't.

Harsher penalties are about revenge - they don't deter crime.

Unless I see stats or links to compare it… I ask… how can it be… harsher laws won’t deter criminal actions?
Does it all come down to each individual thinking it won’t happen to them?

US states which have the death penalty have higher murder rates than those which don't.

There is no harsher penalty than death so if harsh penalties actually deterred crime, murder wouldn't exist in the countries which have capital punishment.

Do harsher punishments deter crime?

It’s easy to think that the threat of punishment will simply dissuade someone from doing the wrong thing. But it turns out that deterring would-be criminals by instilling doubt or fear of the consequences is more tale than truth.

“Deterrence is very largely an article of faith,” says UNSW Law Emeritus Professor David Brown. “I call it sentencing’s dirty secret because it’s just assumed that there is deterrence … but what the research shows is that the system has little to no deterrent effect.”

The criminal justice researcher says harsher punishments, such as longer prison sentences, not only do not prevent crime but may actually have the opposite effect.

“What research is increasingly showing is that imprisonment itself and punishment more generally is actually criminogenic – it makes it more likely that people are going to re-offend,” he says.

Yeah ... so your stating the reasons why not.....

how about some answers as to how it can be reduced?

Increased police presence on the streets.

What would be the point,

Deterrence.

Most people, not all, won't commit a crime in front of a police officer or if a police officer is nearby.

They can see the danger - the police officer - and it makes them think twice.

You can't see a prison sentence, thus it is next to useless in deterring crime.

"A large and growing body of academic literature confirms that police presence deters crime and helps maintain public order".

Jon Guze, Senior Fellow, Legal Studies, John Locke Foundation

March 17, 2022

BS .... it did SFA on Palm Island in 2004.

The mindset of youth today is they have nothing to fear & will push the boundaries in every aspect including in front of Police.

Good grief they even had a competition in Broome about ramming cop cars with the vehicles they'd stolen ... knowing full well SFA would happen to them.

Lets' be honest here ... all you spruik has been tried & failed .....

time to get back to some old style justice ... no matter how repugnant it is to all you lefty softcocks.

The general public shouldn't have to put up with the rates of criminal activity especially from juveniles.

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Gnads

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Re: Another one
Reply #39 - Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 7:10pm

aquascoot wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:04pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:04pm:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:55am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:43am:

Sophia wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:31am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:22am:

Kat wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:17am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:47am:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:45am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:32am:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 9:19am:

Time to put in place some serious consequences.

Do you believe harsher penalties will deter other would-be criminals?

Well the progressive softly softly counselling approach has been a dismal failure .....

the skyrocketing rate of juvenile crime is testament to that.

Yes, but do you believe harsher penalties will deter other would-be criminals?

It never has in the past, so why would it now?

Exactly.

US states which have the death penalty have higher murder rates than those which don't.

Harsher penalties are about revenge - they don't deter crime.

Unless I see stats or links to compare it… I ask… how can it be… harsher laws won’t deter criminal actions?
Does it all come down to each individual thinking it won’t happen to them?

US states which have the death penalty have higher murder rates than those which don't.

There is no harsher penalty than death so if harsh penalties actually deterred crime, murder wouldn't exist in the countries which have capital punishment.

Do harsher punishments deter crime?

It’s easy to think that the threat of punishment will simply dissuade someone from doing the wrong thing. But it turns out that deterring would-be criminals by instilling doubt or fear of the consequences is more tale than truth.

“Deterrence is very largely an article of faith,” says UNSW Law Emeritus Professor David Brown. “I call it sentencing’s dirty secret because it’s just assumed that there is deterrence … but what the research shows is that the system has little to no deterrent effect.”

The criminal justice researcher says harsher punishments, such as longer prison sentences, not only do not prevent crime but may actually have the opposite effect.

“What research is increasingly showing is that imprisonment itself and punishment more generally is actually criminogenic – it makes it more likely that people are going to re-offend,” he says.

Yeah ... so your stating the reasons why not.....

how about some answers as to how it can be reduced?

Increased police presence on the streets.

Increased public housing

Increased mental health services.

Increased drug & alcohol rehabilitation options.

A decrease in the availability of alcohol (e.g. reduced opening hours) and a rise in the legal drinking age.

Increase minimum age for dropping out of school.

these solutions are all "reactive"
the population have to venture forth into the streets on a saturday night and there will always be danger

rather then trying to coat the streets with nerf gel foam.

it is better to become the sort of individual who can handle a situation.

this 40 yo guy could have spent an hour a day learning a martial art.

relying on an authority figure to help you is always a foolish move

try to be like this guy

Biggest problem there & it is in a lot these interactions is the big mouthed sheila egging on her softcock male friends.

She's relying on the old men don't hit women protection & offering up her male mates for a flogging.

She should have been dropped first.

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Frank

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Re: Another one
Reply #40 - Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 7:10pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:22am:

Kat wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:17am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:47am:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:45am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:32am:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 9:19am:

Time to put in place some serious consequences.

Do you believe harsher penalties will deter other would-be criminals?

Well the progressive softly softly counselling approach has been a dismal failure .....

the skyrocketing rate of juvenile crime is testament to that.

Yes, but do you believe harsher penalties will deter other would-be criminals?

It never has in the past, so why would it now?

Exactly.

US states which have the death penalty have higher murder rates than those which don't.

Harsher penalties are about revenge - they don't deter crime.

Bbwianesque turdy ball-licks. Unseemly, tujd.

Under Mao. The Mao Zedong government is generally credited with eradicating both consumption and production of opium during the 1950s using unrestrained repression and social reform. Ten million addicts were forced into compulsory treatment, dealers were executed, and opium-producing regions were planted with new crops ...
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › His...
History of opium in China - Wikipedia

Same treatment from Carthage onwards.

It works.

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Gnads

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Re: Another one
Reply #41 - Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 7:14pm

AusGeoff wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 3:19pm:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:45am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:32am:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 9:19am:

Time to put in place some serious consequences.

Do you believe harsher penalties will deter other would-be criminals?

Well the progressive softly softly counselling approach has been a dismal failure .....

the skyrocketing rate of juvenile crime is testament to that.

Yes. I agree that the current approach to youth crime is obviously
not working, and needs new, serious reconsideration.

One of the major issues is the lax approach from magistrates, who
invariably focus on the rehabilitation of the youthful transgressor at
the expense of his/her victims. All too often, these young criminals
are already on probation for previous criminal convictions, and should
instead have been in a youth detention facility.

And again, too many of these young offenders know they'll get off
lightly—often pleading physically abusive childhoods, drug abuse,
depressive disorders, alcoholic parents or absent parents, or peer
group pressures etc. All of which is neither here nor there from the
perspective of their victims—it doesn't assuage the often life changing
effects they suffer from assaults or home invasions or other crimes
of violence.

My solution would be immediate incarceration in a youth detention
centre for any crime involving (say) physical violence, vehicle theft,
property damage and arson, aggravated burglary, gang violence,
sexual assault etc.

I know people say jailing isn't effective, and often exacerbates the
already antisocial mindset of the offender, and can also lead to the
negative effects of contact with more hardened criminals.

But... jailing them undeniably prevents them from committing further
crimes against innocent parties. Which is why so often bail is a failure.
And isn't the protection of law abiding citizens and their property the
foremost factor here? It has to be.

Got to agree with that.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Re: Another one
Reply #42 - Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 7:16pm

AusGeoff wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 3:30pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:32pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:22pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:15pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:09pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:04pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:04pm:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:55am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:43am:

Sophia wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:31am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:22am:

Kat wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:17am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:47am:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:45am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:32am:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 9:19am:

Time to put in place some serious consequences.

Do you believe harsher penalties will deter other would-be criminals?

Well the progressive softly softly counselling approach has been a dismal failure .....

the skyrocketing rate of juvenile crime is testament to that.

Yes, but do you believe harsher penalties will deter other would-be criminals?

It never has in the past, so why would it now?

Exactly.

US states which have the death penalty have higher murder rates than those which don't.

Harsher penalties are about revenge - they don't deter crime.

Unless I see stats or links to compare it… I ask… how can it be… harsher laws won’t deter criminal actions?
Does it all come down to each individual thinking it won’t happen to them?

US states which have the death penalty have higher murder rates than those which don't.

There is no harsher penalty than death so if harsh penalties actually deterred crime, murder wouldn't exist in the countries which have capital punishment.

Do harsher punishments deter crime?

It’s easy to think that the threat of punishment will simply dissuade someone from doing the wrong thing. But it turns out that deterring would-be criminals by instilling doubt or fear of the consequences is more tale than truth.

“Deterrence is very largely an article of faith,” says UNSW Law Emeritus Professor David Brown. “I call it sentencing’s dirty secret because it’s just assumed that there is deterrence … but what the research shows is that the system has little to no deterrent effect.”

The criminal justice researcher says harsher punishments, such as longer prison sentences, not only do not prevent crime but may actually have the opposite effect.

“What research is increasingly showing is that imprisonment itself and punishment more generally is actually criminogenic – it makes it more likely that people are going to re-offend,” he says.

Yeah ... so your stating the reasons why not.....

how about some answers as to how it can be reduced?

Increased police presence on the streets.

Increased public housing

Increased mental health services.

Increased drug & alcohol rehabilitation options.

A decrease in the availability of alcohol (e.g. reduced opening hours) and a rise in the legal drinking age.

Increase minimum age for dropping out of school.

these solutions are all "reactive"

They're preventative.

theres nothing as addicitve as something that 'almost works'

more cops , more mental health services, more education almost works.

but there arent enough cops and there isnt enough nerf in the world to make you completely safe.

so you need to take action and improve your skillset

Such a defeatist attitude.

Sad.

let me know when your utopia arrives.

until then i'll put my faith in the awesomeness of personal responsibility.

life is the way it is but only 100 % of the time

Strewth! Can the admin here limit the number of nested quotes please. Shocked

THIRTEEN is just too much, and the current comment can often bear only
a vague connection with the first couple of quotes. I'd suggest only three.

If that's not okay, how about people strip out some before they post their
comment, in this case maybe ten of the earliest ones?

I depends on the word quota

& if that isn't met who cares....

at least you can see who said what for a time.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Re: Another one
Reply #43 - Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 7:19pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 3:38pm:

AusGeoff wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 3:19pm:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:45am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 10:32am:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 9:19am:

Time to put in place some serious consequences.

Do you believe harsher penalties will deter other would-be criminals?

Well the progressive softly softly counselling approach has been a dismal failure .....

the skyrocketing rate of juvenile crime is testament to that.

Yes. I agree that the current approach to youth crime is obviously
not working, and needs new, serious reconsideration.

One of the major issues is the lax approach from magistrates, who
invariably focus on the rehabilitation of the youthful transgressor at
the expense of his/her victims. All too often, these young criminals
are already on probation for previous criminal convictions, and should
instead have been in a youth detention facility.

And again, too many of these young offenders know they'll get off
lightly—often pleading physically abusive childhoods, drug abuse,
depressive disorders, alcoholic parents or absent parents, or peer
group pressures etc. All of which is neither here nor there from the
perspective of their victims—it doesn't assuage the often life changing
effects they suffer from assaults or home invasions or other crimes
of violence.

My solution would be immediate incarceration in a youth detention
centre for any crime involving (say) physical violence, vehicle theft,
property damage and arson, aggravated burglary, gang violence,
sexual assault etc.

I know people say jailing isn't effective, and often exacerbates the
already antisocial mindset of the offender, and can also lead to the
negative effects of contact with more hardened criminals.

But... jailing them undeniably prevents them from committing further
crimes against innocent parties. Which is why so often bail is a failure.
And isn't the protection of law abiding citizens and their property the
foremost factor here? It has to be.

reasonable post....except everyone including the police and the magistrates know you can't arrest your way out of the problem, we just don't have enough detention facilities and judicial staff. Blacks are already the most incarcerated people (per population) on the planet.

Any other solutions....?

Well build them & staff them ...... we can spend $37 billion on jet fighters to protect our borders

yet we can't protect our citizens from youth crime... often very violent youth crime.

How about you consider some priorities?

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Re: Another one
Reply #44 - Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 7:21pm

Jasin wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 3:56pm:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 9:19am:

It's high time something more comprehensive was done about juvenile crime.

This is not a boy as they stated - he is a late teen - a young man... the punishment must fit the crime.

Courier Mail today - paywalled.

Quote:

‘KILLED BY A COWARD’
Murder charge for teen caught with 45cm knife
THOMAS CHAMBERLIN
YOUTH CRIME CRISIS: MAN STABBED WALKING HOME

A BOY has been charged with murdering a Wilston man by stabbing him to death less than a kilometre from his home in the upmarket inner Brisbane suburb.

Detective Superintendent Andrew Massingham said the man, 43, was found by a member of the public about 1.40am, directly opposite the
Wilston train station, with critical injuries. He died at the scene despite paramedics trying to save him. Ninety minutes before the man was found
– just after midnight – police arrested two teens who had come to the attention of officers on a nearby stretch of Newmarket Rd.

The boy, 17, was allegedly found with a 45cm knife, described by Superintendent Massingham as “almost a small machete”, which was in a
sheath hidden beneath his clothing.

He said the boy and a teenage girl – who was not charged over the death – were taken to a “place of safety”, as is procedure when locating juveniles.

They were later arrested at that address after the stabbed man was found.

Superintendent Massingham said the crime scene was horrific. “These cowardly attacks are abhorrent, no place for them in society,” he said.

Opposition Leader David Crisafulli called on Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk – who returns from holiday today – to recall parliament to
debate “the youth crime epidemic”.

No more talk/debate they been doing that for decades.

Time to put in place some serious consequences.

Ok you Unionised parasitic Yankee Prole.

A 'teenager' be they 11 or 19 are not young 'adults'.
They are still children or 'youth' or kids. A 19 year old is still a kid as much as a 13 year old is - both of whom are both 'teenagers' you numpty!
You obviously thought at 18-19 that you were an 'adult' like a premature ejaculation. Grin

Remember the saying, "The thoughts of youth, are long long thoughts"

Also - when it comes to dealing with 'youth/kids/teenies'.
Do you think its about handling the situation like Aussie with his BIG HANDS?
Another stupid Unionised 'cultural' failing?
Of course.
When some 'kid' - be they 13 or 19 tries to use their 'emotional blackmail' for violence against me. I've never, as a Man/Adult, had to use 'BIG HANDS' to deal with them.
The mere threat of my BIG FEMALE FRIEND T'UAFA coming to smash their heads in shuts them up big time because when it comes to Women giving kids a whacking - there is no 'emotional blackmail' involved. If big Mumma or Sister or even Female Cops, Security, etc come in swinging - then the kids are gonna cop a beating.
None of this 'big bully' Prison Men by the Media because they put bags over 'kids' who spit.

If a 19 year old in court said "That woman wacked me!" the Judge would laugh and say "Good - you deserved it!" Cool

But if a male adult did it - its 'abuse'. Angry

Especially as seen by the Media and Lefties.

...are you starting to get it Union boy?

...and if that 19 year old decides he can get away with abusing that female - then that's when an Adult Male can come in and deal whatever punishment he likes. Wink

STFU you wacked out imbecile.

Adults talking here.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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