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Lavrov Claims Ukraine Started War Against Russia! (Read 4449 times)
thegreatdivide
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Re: Lavrov Claims Ukraine Started War Against Russia!
Reply #180 - Mar 14th, 2023 at 3:38pm
 
ShellShilo wrote on Mar 14th, 2023 at 3:05pm:
Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 14th, 2023 at 9:07am:
ShellShilo thank you for your previous reply.

I would still like to know : what do you personally think about China and the CCP?


Thank you Lisa. And, it's always a pleasure. Smiley

Although the CCP(Chinese Communist Party), is the only party enshrined in the Chinese Constitution. It is the largest(and only party), that controls every facet of Chinese life. On paper, this party practices "Democratic Centralism(discussion of policies). But in reality, these policy decisions are "discussed, debated, and voted on behind close doors". And although the NPC(National People's Congress) acts as a regulatory/supervisory/oversight body, it is nothing more than a "rubber stamp" for the policies of the CCP. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uzn8f38sw90
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-03-08/xi-stops-playing-nice-china-s-financial-overhaul-npc-update?leadSource=uverify%20wall

In fact the NPC is currently being reformed to become more inline with the policies and visions of the CCP. China is a country that values "LOYALTY" over "INDIVIDUAL LIBERTIES". A country that controls all forms of social media.

But then again, I was fortunate enough not to be born in China. If I were born/raised in China, I would see no problem with my country. I would consider everything that I do as normal. Just as the people in western cultures would consider what they do as normal for them. Raising a family, going to work, going on vacations, and engaging in leisure activities, would seem normal for anyone raised in China. IMHO it is just arrogance to judge any society, by the standards of your own society. No one is being forced to live in China. No one is being forced to accept China's financial help. It is a sovereign nations, with its own languages, customs and traditions. Their culture is NONE of our business!

We scream when China exerts any influence in Eastern Europe, Africa, or in the South Pacific. We blame China for the spread of the corona virus. But we don't even bat an eyelid, when the US overthrows foreign governments, runs up a $31T national debt, interferes in foreign elections, or torture and slaughters innocent people on foreign land.

There will always be people who will support a Western World-wide Hegemony. I am NOT one of them. I think these governments should get out of the business of world police, or the spreading of their world-wide Corporate Capitalism, that will mostly benefits themselves. War is big business for the West! Even at the expense of the quality of life for its own citizens.


A balanced post, a pleasure to read after the continuous sabre rattling from (even) Labor these days (which Keating warned about), and  a welcome relief from the paranoid  "China threat' Western "freedom values" nonsense.

Re the Chinese government model:  some people have likened it to a consensus meritocracy, because anyone with ability can rise through the ranks of the CCP (unlike in western democracies where any clown can get elected....good thing they can get thrown out at the next election)

The question is: how successful is the CCP in achieving its stated goal of "common prosperity"?   We should know within a decade, unless paranoid western hegemony ideologues wreck global trade.
(but the current rules for global trade and global finance are part of the problem - another story).

In my book, "individual liberties" demonstrably  result in the entrenched disadvantage of  minorities in Western democracies; I would like to see China achieve its goal of "a prosperous socialist country in all respects", before 2049 (the centenary of the CCP government in China).





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thegreatdivide
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Re: Lavrov Claims Ukraine Started War Against Russia!
Reply #181 - Mar 14th, 2023 at 3:51pm
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 14th, 2023 at 3:12pm:
Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 14th, 2023 at 3:09pm:

Edit : NotsoGreat I’ve only just caught your response. I’ll get to it later. I promise you this : You won’t like what I have to say to you.


...I'm wondering if you can still be friends with your new friend  Shellshilo, after her response to your question....  you know ...the sisterhood and all that...
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Lisa Jones
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Re: Lavrov Claims Ukraine Started War Against Russia!
Reply #182 - Mar 14th, 2023 at 3:51pm
 
Captain Caveman wrote on Mar 14th, 2023 at 3:22pm:
ShellShilo wrote on Mar 14th, 2023 at 3:05pm:
Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 14th, 2023 at 9:07am:
ShellShilo thank you for your previous reply.

I would still like to know : what do you personally think about China and the CCP?


Thank you Lisa. And, it's always a pleasure. Smiley

Although the CCP(Chinese Communist Party), is the only party enshrined in the Chinese Constitution. It is the largest(and only party), that controls every facet of Chinese life. On paper, this party practices "Democratic Centralism(discussion of policies). But in reality, these policy decisions are "discussed, debated, and voted on behind close doors". And although the NPC(National People's Congress) acts as a regulatory/supervisory/oversight body, it is nothing more than a "rubber stamp" for the policies of the CCP. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uzn8f38sw90
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-03-08/xi-stops-playing-nice-china-s-financial-overhaul-npc-update?leadSource=uverify%20wall

In fact the NPC is currently being reformed to become more inline with the policies and visions of the CCP. China is a country that values "LOYALTY" over "INDIVIDUAL LIBERTIES". A country that controls all forms of social media.

But then again, I was fortunate enough not to be born in China. If I were born/raised in China, I would see no problem with my country. I would consider everything that I do as normal. Just as the people in western cultures would consider what they do as normal for them. Raising a family, going to work, going on vacations, and engaging in leisure activities, would seem normal for anyone raised in China. IMHO it is just arrogance to judge any society, by the standards of your own society. No one is being forced to live in China. No one is being forced to accept China's financial help. It is a sovereign nations, with its own languages, customs and traditions. Their culture is NONE of our business!

We scream when China exerts any influence in Eastern Europe, Africa, or in the South Pacific. We blame China for the spread of the corona virus. But we don't even bat an eyelid, when the US overthrows foreign governments, runs up a $31T national debt, interferes in foreign elections, or torture and slaughters innocent people on foreign land.

There will always be people who will support a Western World-wide Hegemony. I am NOT one of them. I think these governments should get out of the business of world police, or the spreading of their world-wide Corporate Capitalism, that will mostly benefits themselves. War is big business for the West! Even at the expense of the quality of life for its own citizens.








This is what I am struggling with now.
Hearing Australians blurt on and on about how good America is, and then turnning into a fire breathing dragon when asked if a middle eastern resident would agree with them.
Then call Assange a traitor.... WTF, he wasn't on the trigger in that helicopter.

It's not happening here in our country so it doesn't matter. That's what they truly believe in their head.
Pre gulf war, I was a red white and blue yank supporter.
Now I see them for what they are.


Captain I too am very critical of the US.

As a country it has a lot to answer for IMO. Its track record in genocide alone was my initial wake up call.

Even so....right now I’d much rather have the USA (rather than China or Russia) throwing their weight over us here in Australia. Don’t you feel the same way? (If not why not?)




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« Last Edit: Mar 14th, 2023 at 3:58pm by Lisa Jones »  

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HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
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Lisa Jones
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Re: Lavrov Claims Ukraine Started War Against Russia!
Reply #183 - Mar 14th, 2023 at 3:57pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 14th, 2023 at 3:51pm:
Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 14th, 2023 at 3:12pm:
Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 14th, 2023 at 3:09pm:

Edit : NotsoGreat I’ve only just caught your response. I’ll get to it later. I promise you this : You won’t like what I have to say to you.


...I'm wondering if you can still be friends with your new friend  Shellsilo, after her response to your question....  you know ...the sisterhood and all that...


How do you know that ID is female? (I’m still waiting for a response on that)

You know the id from elsewhere ?

As regards the sisterhood - I can assure you that my online sisters are carefully chosen. I’m into quality NOT quantity.
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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Lavrov Claims Ukraine Started War Against Russia!
Reply #184 - Mar 14th, 2023 at 6:01pm
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 14th, 2023 at 3:57pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 14th, 2023 at 3:51pm:
Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 14th, 2023 at 3:12pm:
Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 14th, 2023 at 3:09pm:

Edit : NotsoGreat I’ve only just caught your response. I’ll get to it later. I promise you this : You won’t like what I have to say to you.


...I'm wondering if you can still be friends with your new friend  Shellsilo, after her response to your question....  you know ...the sisterhood and all that...


How do you know that ID is female? (I’m still waiting for a response on that)

You know the id from elsewhere ?

As regards the sisterhood - I can assure you that my online sisters are carefully chosen. I’m into quality NOT quantity.


Ok...waiting for your report "which I will not like".

Meantime I'll tell you something you won't like; the CCP  sees consensus 'authoritarian' meritocracy as a legitimate form of government.

So far the people are supportive: a recent Harvard study shows 90% support for the central government, ie government by the CCP. 


"Socialism" is difficult to establish because we are all naturally (instinctively) self-interested; people need to be prepared to submit to rule of law, to achieve collective wellbeing (the goal of socialism).

This 'social license' granted by the governed,  aka "socialism", can only survive if it produces results, ie collective well-being.

By the same token, another capitalist GFC would put democracy on even shakier grounds than it already is - with partisanship tearing at social cohesion in many democracies, as entrenched poverty and increasing inequality ravage many of them. 

Speaking of which:

https://ellenbrown.com/2023/03/13/the-looming-quadrillion-dollar-derivatives-tsu...

The Looming Quadrillion Dollar Derivative** Tsunami

**Derivatives: "financial weapons of mass destruction" W. Buffett.

Funny money will destroy democracy...and by the way, this funny money is Wall Street's invention, not China's
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« Last Edit: Mar 14th, 2023 at 6:10pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
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Frank
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Re: Lavrov Claims Ukraine Started War Against Russia!
Reply #185 - Apr 3rd, 2023 at 11:27am
 
...
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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Lavrov Claims Ukraine Started War Against Russia!
Reply #186 - Apr 21st, 2023 at 8:44pm
 
Regardless of who "started" the war, Russia is now in a spot of bother...with Ukraine about to join NATO..

I warned athos that Russia would be fighting the wealthiest power block on the globe...

Nuclear weapons are unusable, so Russia must lose its "special military operation" .

I wonder if Putin is awake yet....
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Re: Lavrov Claims Ukraine Started War Against Russia!
Reply #187 - Apr 22nd, 2023 at 6:01pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 21st, 2023 at 8:44pm:
Regardless of who "started" the war, Russia is now in a spot of bother...with Ukraine about to join NATO..

I warned athos that Russia would be fighting the wealthiest power block on the globe...

Nuclear weapons are unusable, so Russia must lose its "special military operation" .

I wonder if Putin is awake yet....


He's awake alright, that is why he sits on the other side of the room from everyone else. He has told too many lies, and got too many of his countrymen killed or maimed. When he stops attacking Ukraine, he is dead meat. Lavrov will probably end up the same way.
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aquascoot
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Re: Lavrov Claims Ukraine Started War Against Russia!
Reply #188 - Apr 22nd, 2023 at 6:12pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 21st, 2023 at 8:44pm:
Regardless of who "started" the war, Russia is now in a spot of bother...with Ukraine about to join NATO..

I warned athos that Russia would be fighting the wealthiest power block on the globe...

Nuclear weapons are unusable, so Russia must lose its "special military operation" .

I wonder if Putin is awake yet....



ukraine will NEVER be allowed to join NATO.
too provocative considering russias nukes.

though i suppose a dumbie like karmela harris might allow it. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Lavrov Claims Ukraine Started War Against Russia!
Reply #189 - Apr 22nd, 2023 at 8:58pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 6:12pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 21st, 2023 at 8:44pm:
Regardless of who "started" the war, Russia is now in a spot of bother...with Ukraine about to join NATO..

I warned athos that Russia would be fighting the wealthiest power block on the globe...

Nuclear weapons are unusable, so Russia must lose its "special military operation" .

I wonder if Putin is awake yet....



ukraine will NEVER be allowed to join NATO.
too provocative considering russias nukes.


Isn't that silly fellow Stoltenberg the leader of NATO?

He's determined to drive Russia all the way back to pre 2014 borders.

Currently Russia is apparently suffering five to one casualties, unless that is NATO propaganda.

Meanwhile the commedian Zelensky has presided over the destruction of much of Ukraine. The Pentagon is of course enjoying the evil spectacle while making a quick buck...

Quote:
though i suppose a dumbie like karmela harris might allow it. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Will the Russian people allow a nuclear war?
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Re: Lavrov Claims Ukraine Started War Against Russia!
Reply #190 - Apr 22nd, 2023 at 11:10pm
 
I would not think NATO would accept Ukraine during hostilities, or before Ukraine joins the EU, but I would not be prepared to say "never." Should Russia lose the war, and consequently Putin falls out of a sixth floor window, the situation would be very different. And it looks like Ukraine is going to come out of this war with the best military in Europe, and the 300 billion dollars in seized Russian assets as reparations.
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Re: Lavrov Claims Ukraine Started War Against Russia!
Reply #191 - Apr 25th, 2023 at 3:15am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 8:58pm:
He's determined to drive Russia all the way back to pre 2014 borders.

Currently Russia is apparently suffering five to one casualties, unless that is NATO propaganda.

Meanwhile the commedian Zelensky has presided over the destruction of much of Ukraine. The Pentagon is of course enjoying the evil spectacle while making a quick buck...



GrinVatnik
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aquascoot
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Re: Lavrov Claims Ukraine Started War Against Russia!
Reply #192 - Apr 26th, 2023 at 5:03pm
 
issuevoter wrote on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 11:10pm:
I would not think NATO would accept Ukraine during hostilities, or before Ukraine joins the EU, but I would not be prepared to say "never." Should Russia lose the war, and consequently Putin falls out of a sixth floor window, the situation would be very different. And it looks like Ukraine is going to come out of this war with the best military in Europe, and the 300 billion dollars in seized Russian assets as reparations.



you are kidding

nearly all their infrastructure is demolished.

they got 14 tanks from poland (redundant model with no spare parts) and 20 from france  (redundant model with no spare parts).

russia will win , if only because they wont run out of artillery shells and ukraine will be a wreck

unless america (whihc is again at its debt ceiling) decides to print more trillions, ukraine will be decades getting rebuilt
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Re: Lavrov Claims Ukraine Started War Against Russia!
Reply #193 - Apr 27th, 2023 at 12:31am
 
aquascoot wrote on Apr 26th, 2023 at 5:03pm:
issuevoter wrote on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 11:10pm:
I would not think NATO would accept Ukraine during hostilities, or before Ukraine joins the EU, but I would not be prepared to say "never." Should Russia lose the war, and consequently Putin falls out of a sixth floor window, the situation would be very different. And it looks like Ukraine is going to come out of this war with the best military in Europe, and the 300 billion dollars in seized Russian assets as reparations.



you are kidding

nearly all their infrastructure is demolished.

they got 14 tanks from poland (redundant model with no spare parts) and 20 from france  (redundant model with no spare parts).

russia will win , if only because they wont run out of artillery shells and ukraine will be a wreck

unless america (whihc is again at its debt ceiling) decides to print more trillions, ukraine will be decades getting rebuilt


Oh, I know. And Brexit will do wonders for UK trade, and covid was just a case of the sniffles, and the 2020 US erection was STOLEN, and the big fella never had sexual relations with that HORSEFACE woman, and on and on.

But do you know? There's nothing wrong with horse faces, dear. The Greeks prized such beauty. Some of the most fetching fillies have equine features, no?
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Captain Caveman
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Re: Lavrov Claims Ukraine Started War Against Russia!
Reply #194 - Apr 27th, 2023 at 8:28am
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 14th, 2023 at 3:51pm:
Captain Caveman wrote on Mar 14th, 2023 at 3:22pm:
ShellShilo wrote on Mar 14th, 2023 at 3:05pm:
Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 14th, 2023 at 9:07am:
ShellShilo thank you for your previous reply.

I would still like to know : what do you personally think about China and the CCP?


Thank you Lisa. And, it's always a pleasure. Smiley

Although the CCP(Chinese Communist Party), is the only party enshrined in the Chinese Constitution. It is the largest(and only party), that controls every facet of Chinese life. On paper, this party practices "Democratic Centralism(discussion of policies). But in reality, these policy decisions are "discussed, debated, and voted on behind close doors". And although the NPC(National People's Congress) acts as a regulatory/supervisory/oversight body, it is nothing more than a "rubber stamp" for the policies of the CCP. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uzn8f38sw90
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-03-08/xi-stops-playing-nice-china-s-financial-overhaul-npc-update?leadSource=uverify%20wall

In fact the NPC is currently being reformed to become more inline with the policies and visions of the CCP. China is a country that values "LOYALTY" over "INDIVIDUAL LIBERTIES". A country that controls all forms of social media.

But then again, I was fortunate enough not to be born in China. If I were born/raised in China, I would see no problem with my country. I would consider everything that I do as normal. Just as the people in western cultures would consider what they do as normal for them. Raising a family, going to work, going on vacations, and engaging in leisure activities, would seem normal for anyone raised in China. IMHO it is just arrogance to judge any society, by the standards of your own society. No one is being forced to live in China. No one is being forced to accept China's financial help. It is a sovereign nations, with its own languages, customs and traditions. Their culture is NONE of our business!

We scream when China exerts any influence in Eastern Europe, Africa, or in the South Pacific. We blame China for the spread of the corona virus. But we don't even bat an eyelid, when the US overthrows foreign governments, runs up a $31T national debt, interferes in foreign elections, or torture and slaughters innocent people on foreign land.

There will always be people who will support a Western World-wide Hegemony. I am NOT one of them. I think these governments should get out of the business of world police, or the spreading of their world-wide Corporate Capitalism, that will mostly benefits themselves. War is big business for the West! Even at the expense of the quality of life for its own citizens.








This is what I am struggling with now.
Hearing Australians blurt on and on about how good America is, and then turnning into a fire breathing dragon when asked if a middle eastern resident would agree with them.
Then call Assange a traitor.... WTF, he wasn't on the trigger in that helicopter.

It's not happening here in our country so it doesn't matter. That's what they truly believe in their head.
Pre gulf war, I was a red white and blue yank supporter.
Now I see them for what they are.


Captain I too am very critical of the US.

As a country it has a lot to answer for IMO. Its track record in genocide alone was my initial wake up call.

Even so....right now I’d much rather have the USA (rather than China or Russia) throwing their weight over us here in Australia. Don’t you feel the same way? (If not why not?)







G'day Lisa.
Sorry, I missed this post.

I would rather Australia stood on its own.
China and Russia are americas made up boogie men.
The american government is a terrorist organisation that has been destroying countries around the world for decades, for their own personal gain.
They lie through their teeth to garner support for their activities.
They produce so much propaganda to trap the minds of the listeners.
To go into exact details would take a long time to put together, for which I am not in a position to do.
America would shyte in us at the drop of a hat, just like they've just shyte on eastern Europe in the name of energy deals.
They openly admit it.
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