Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 6^th, 2023 at 8:31pm:

Well, you'd be wrong.

Western Ukrainians wrote off the south and southeast months ago.

issuevoter wrote on Mar 6^th, 2023 at 10:19pm:

Ukrainians speak of it.

If you want to hear a public personality discuss this, Konstantin Kisin would be a good start. He is half Russian, half Ukrainian. His wife is Ukrainian.

There is a widespread misinterpretation of Eastern Europe, including its long-standing social, cultural and political relationship with Russia, as well as its religious connections or conflicts with Western Europe.

Prior to its current democratic and unified state, Western Europe was a patchwork of autocratic empires, kingdoms, small states, and free cities with fluctuating borders that only began to coalesce into its current form in the last century. However, its association with the East has endured and has been evolving for centuries.

In Eastern Europe, which was also once a mix of autocratic empires, kingdoms, and small states with ever-changing borders, Russian influence has long dominated.

Today, there are extensive Russian populations, Russian-speaking communities, and Russocentric subcultures (both religious and secular) throughout Eastern Europe and beyond Russia's historically flexible borders. These regions encompass various independent states, such as Poland, the Baltic states, Georgia, and the southern 'stans among others.

To assume that Ukrainians suddenly and completely shifted towards a Western-facing identity 15+ years ago is to ignore the complex web of Russian influence and allegiance that has existed in Eastern Europe for centuries.

issuevoter wrote on Mar 7^th, 2023 at 8:41am:

No.

The root cause of this animosity is the centuries-old Russian sense of existential threat arising from invasion.

Russians instil in their children stories of the 'times of troubles' (i.e. invasion) which ends when a strongman rises to rid mother Russia of the invaders and save the Russian people.

It is deeply instilled in the Russian psyche.

No, Meister is right. Fear of invasion, wanting to have buffers so the russians can trade space for time, time for winter to destroy the invading armies. Worked with Napoleon, worked with Hitler. Also worked with Turks and Mongols and the Swedish.

Ukraine + the West cannot make a peace deal that gives russia the Ukrainian territories it holds now. There will be unrest in Moldova that the russians will foment and take advantage of.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 7^th, 2023 at 10:07am:

issuevoter wrote on Mar 6^th, 2023 at 5:22pm:


https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/russia-could-have-joined-nato-but-why-didn-t-t...

Russia could have joined NATO. But why didn't they do it?

"Some experts believe it could have been real if the West had taken Russia’s membership prospects seriously back in 2000 or the 1990s when Mikhail Gorbachev, the last Soviet leader, and Russian Federation’s first President Boris Yeltsin also lobbied for Moscow’s entrance to the alliance. Had it happened, the current Russian onslaught on Ukraine could have been prevented.

Note: 'the eye of the beholder'.....; Meister helpfully sees Russia as applying for NATO membership while "having poo running down its legs"....


while Russia suffered the catastrophe of transition from planned economy to competitive market economy.