freediver wrote on Mar 8^th, 2023 at 6:30pm:


Quote:


Great I was starting to wonder why it all sounded so wacky. I was wondering if it was just me.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 8^th, 2023 at 1:19am:


Please! Let's not talk about the lies countries use to justify their military actions. Especially, countries of the west. Would you like a list of all the lies(WMD's, Bay of Pigs, Gulf of Tongan Incident, Syrian president gassing his own people), half-truths, assassination attempts(Castro), executions(Hussein, Bin Laden), provocations, murders(Soleimani), election tampering(covertly and overtly), foreign government overthrows(Bolivia, Iran, Guatemala, Columbia, Afghanistan),
and the unlawful foreign occupations by NATO and the West(Syria, Iraq)? Their lies almost make Trump look like a saint!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assassinations_by_the_United_States
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-the-us-has-overthro
wn

I think you're just parroting elements of the western narrative. And completely ignoring context. If you are looking for the truth, you must look OUTSIDE of the Western Hegemony. There are many independent media sources I could recommend.

With all due respect, I think you have drunk too much of the Western propaganda Kool-Aid." Especially, if you still believe that Putin's goal is to rebuild the Warsaw Pact. Or, that he fears the west. And, I seriously doubt that Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Albania, and the Czech Republic, would be willing to join an economic system that is a proven failure! Putin is not bat-s**t delusional, and neither are the leaders of those countries.

I'm not interested in the lies that you claim Putin has said to justify this war. Your premises only support your obvious confirmation bias. All countries lie to justify their military actions. Countries will always be willing to accept an uncomfortable lie, before they will accept an uncomfortable truth. It is the lies that will spin their narrative.

https://www.thenation.com/article/society/the-military-untruth-complex/
https://tayloroconnor.medium.com/lies-used-to-justify-war-and-how-to-dismantle-t
hem-d0495ed6bac8

My point is, that nations have no right to choose which country they will support militarily. The West and NATO are NOT the world's police! What is the legal precedent here, that allows 20 foreign nations, to provide the arms, training, and the intelligence, to kill the opposing combatants? Maybe we should also start supplying arms to Taiwan, Sahel, Ethiopia, or Yemen? It seems to me, that the only people laughing all the way to the bank, are the war profiteers.

But we are not talking about just any country. We are talking about the number one nuclear weapons' country in the world. And, 20 NATO nations killing Russian soldiers by the thousands, is NOT going to end well. This is NOT our affair. This is between Russia and the Ukraine. Fears of what Putin might do, or want to do after the Ukraine, are the real lies.

Without our interference, the Ukraine would NOT be almost completely decimated. Would NOT have over 8M refugees. Would NOT have over 20K dead. Because this war would have ended in only a few months. But Russia never expected NATO to interfere, and prolong the war, and increase the number of body bags. Or, do you think that the Ukraine could win a war against Russia, with only their resolve?  

Of course, IF NATO had stopped their expansion into E. Europe(as it promised); and IF they didn't completely ignore and dismiss all of Russia's warnings; and IF the EU and the IMF had provided the fundings that the Ukraine needed, we would NOT be in this situation. But none of this happed, did it?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 8^th, 2023 at 7:34pm:



The thing you all completely neglect is that when Putin came to office in the 1990's about the first thing he committed to was to put the old USSR back together again.

This is what we are seeing as simple as that. Nothing to do with any of the page after page of rubbish that has been posted.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 8^th, 2023 at 1:19am:


I'm not sure of the context of any of your truth claims.

Was Putin justified in his belief that an existential threat existed against Russia? Absolutely!!

Were 20 foreign nations conducting a proxy war against Russia? Absolutely!!

Are Russian soldiers being killed by military weapons being supplied by foreign nations? Absolutely.

If the Ukraine joined the EU or NATO, could the West place more missiles along the Russia's borders? Absolutely!!

Do you think that Putin would launch a nuclear attack, if he feels that the sovereignty of Russia will be destroyed? Absolutely!!

Is Zelensky calling for NATO forces to start attacking Russia directly? Absolutely!

No country can win a conventional war against 30 other countries. And, it has nothing to do with their competency. Over 50 countries were fighting against 3 countries in WWII. And, WWI was even more lopsided.

https://www.thoughtco.com/countries-involved-in-world-war-1-1222074

How does the war in the Ukraine directly affect anyone of us? What do we gain, or lose, if Russia takes over the Ukraine? Absolutely nothing!! How does this war affect any aspects of our daily lives? So why the heck are we willing to risk forcing Putin's nuclear hand?

ShellShilo wrote on Mar 8^th, 2023 at 7:23pm:

ShellShilo wrote on Mar 8^th, 2023 at 8:58pm:

There's something mechanical and bot-like about 'ShellShilo'.

I'm guessing Russian or Chinese.

Quote:


So why are missiles in Ukraine suddenly an existential threat?

issuevoter wrote on Mar 8^th, 2023 at 8:37pm:


All I'm saying is,

IF

the good guys(world police) that I should prostrate myself before in thanks, should force Russia to push the nuclear button, then all of this blind loyalist fanatism will become meaningless.

I don't give a damn about Russia or Putin. But I DO give a damn about what Russia and Putin can do. And, it is absolutely an unnecessary and stupid risk to keep provoking both!