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depleted Uranium ammunition to be used in Ukraine (Read 1611 times)
Belgarion
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Re: depleted Uranium ammunition to be used in Ukraine
Reply #15 - Mar 25th, 2023 at 1:35pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Mar 25th, 2023 at 1:21pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 25th, 2023 at 1:11pm:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 24th, 2023 at 4:56pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 24th, 2023 at 4:54pm:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 24th, 2023 at 4:30pm:
How would anyone like to eat food contaminated with depleted Uranium?
Ukraine is the breadbasket of the world and especially Europe.
Even 1000s of years from now people’s food will have Uranium in it from the idiotic war in Ukraine.
This is not even making it into our news – go figure?


Perhaps because they aren't using DU ammunition, Bobby?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Read reply 1 about depleted Uranium -
it's highly radioactive.


No, it isn't, Bobby.  It is Uranium that has had most of the radioactive elements removed, that is why it is called depleted.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



Nonsense -
it is Uranium that has the isotope U235 partially removed - from 0.7% to 0.3%.

It's still highly radioactive.
Normal background is about 40 to 75  counts per minute on a Geiger counter -
depleted Uranium is measuring 100,000 counts per minute as per above.



What is a 'count per minute' Bobby? How many Sv does it work out to?
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Bobby.
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Re: depleted Uranium ammunition to be used in Ukraine
Reply #16 - Mar 25th, 2023 at 1:54pm
 
Belgarion wrote on Mar 25th, 2023 at 1:35pm:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 25th, 2023 at 1:21pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 25th, 2023 at 1:11pm:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 24th, 2023 at 4:56pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 24th, 2023 at 4:54pm:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 24th, 2023 at 4:30pm:
How would anyone like to eat food contaminated with depleted Uranium?
Ukraine is the breadbasket of the world and especially Europe.
Even 1000s of years from now people’s food will have Uranium in it from the idiotic war in Ukraine.
This is not even making it into our news – go figure?


Perhaps because they aren't using DU ammunition, Bobby?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Read reply 1 about depleted Uranium -
it's highly radioactive.


No, it isn't, Bobby.  It is Uranium that has had most of the radioactive elements removed, that is why it is called depleted.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



Nonsense -
it is Uranium that has the isotope U235 partially removed - from 0.7% to 0.3%.

It's still highly radioactive.
Normal background is about 40 to 75  counts per minute on a Geiger counter -
depleted Uranium is measuring 100,000 counts per minute as per above.



What is a 'count per minute' Bobby? How many Sv does it work out to?



Dunno but 100,000  cpm is extreme -

it's   100,000/75 =   1,333  times normal background level.
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Brian Ross
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Re: depleted Uranium ammunition to be used in Ukraine
Reply #17 - Mar 25th, 2023 at 2:36pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Mar 25th, 2023 at 1:21pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 25th, 2023 at 1:11pm:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 24th, 2023 at 4:56pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 24th, 2023 at 4:54pm:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 24th, 2023 at 4:30pm:
How would anyone like to eat food contaminated with depleted Uranium?
Ukraine is the breadbasket of the world and especially Europe.
Even 1000s of years from now people’s food will have Uranium in it from the idiotic war in Ukraine.
This is not even making it into our news – go figure?


Perhaps because they aren't using DU ammunition, Bobby?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Read reply 1 about depleted Uranium -
it's highly radioactive.


No, it isn't, Bobby.  It is Uranium that has had most of the radioactive elements removed, that is why it is called depleted.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Nonsense -
it is Uranium that has the isotope U235 partially removed - from 0.7% to 0.3%.


Quote:
Depleted uranium (DU; also referred to in the past as Q-metal, depletalloy or D-38) is uranium with a lower content of the fissile isotope 235 U than natural uranium.[2] Natural uranium contains about 0.72% 235 U, while the DU used by the U.S. Department of Defense contains 0.3% 235 U or less. The less radioactive and non-fissile 238 U constitutes the main component of depleted uranium. Uses of DU take advantage of its very high density of 19.1 grams per cubic centimetre (0.69 lb/cu in) (68.4% denser than lead).

Civilian uses include counterweights in aircraft, radiation shielding in medical radiation therapy and industrial radiography equipment, and containers for transporting radioactive materials.

[Source]

Which renders it basically harmless, Bobby.  DU is basically useless for radioactive purposes.  Run along to your radiation proof bunker, Bobby.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

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Bobby.
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Re: depleted Uranium ammunition to be used in Ukraine
Reply #18 - Mar 25th, 2023 at 2:38pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 25th, 2023 at 2:36pm:
Which renders it basically harmless, Bobby.  DU is basically useless for radioactive purposes.  Run along to your radiation proof bunker, Bobby.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes




It's not harmless Brian.    tsk  tsk    Shocked Shocked
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Brian Ross
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Re: depleted Uranium ammunition to be used in Ukraine
Reply #19 - Mar 25th, 2023 at 2:41pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Mar 25th, 2023 at 2:38pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 25th, 2023 at 2:36pm:
Which renders it basically harmless, Bobby.  DU is basically useless for radioactive purposes.  Run along to your radiation proof bunker, Bobby.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


It's not harmless Brian.    tsk  tsk    Shocked Shocked


Prove it, Bobby.  Quote a scientific paper by a reputable radiologist.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Bobby.
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Re: depleted Uranium ammunition to be used in Ukraine
Reply #20 - Mar 25th, 2023 at 2:47pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 25th, 2023 at 2:41pm:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 25th, 2023 at 2:38pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 25th, 2023 at 2:36pm:
Which renders it basically harmless, Bobby.  DU is basically useless for radioactive purposes.  Run along to your radiation proof bunker, Bobby.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


It's not harmless Brian.    tsk  tsk    Shocked Shocked


Prove it, Bobby.  Quote a scientific paper by a reputable radiologist.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



Brian,
you don't need a scientific paper.
Even a halfwit can see that it's dangerous.
Would you like some depleted Uranium for your dinner tonight?     tsk  tsk     Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Belgarion
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Re: depleted Uranium ammunition to be used in Ukraine
Reply #21 - Mar 25th, 2023 at 2:52pm
 
OK. now for some real, scientific data:

https://www.iaea.org/topics/spent-fuel-management/depleted-uranium

https://www.nuclear-power.com/nuclear-engineering/radiation-protection/equivalen...

I will summarise some of the information in these references:

A seivert (Sv) is the measurement used to measure the health risk of ionising radiation, calculated using the formula of 1 joule of energy per kilo of mass.  5 Sv will kill most people within 30 days.

The amount of airborne depleted uranium particles a person needs to ingest to get a dose of 1 millisievert  1 mSv( 1/1000th of a sievert) is 32 milligrams. That is an awful lot of dust for a very small dose. A few examples that show how small a dose of 1mSv is:

3.65 mSv. World average yearly dose from natural background radiation.

20 mSv.  CT scan.

There are other examples in the references, all of which goes to show that DU is not the radioactive boogeyman Russian and other propaganda would make it out to be.










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Brian Ross
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Re: depleted Uranium ammunition to be used in Ukraine
Reply #22 - Mar 25th, 2023 at 3:29pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Mar 25th, 2023 at 2:47pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 25th, 2023 at 2:41pm:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 25th, 2023 at 2:38pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 25th, 2023 at 2:36pm:
Which renders it basically harmless, Bobby.  DU is basically useless for radioactive purposes.  Run along to your radiation proof bunker, Bobby.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


It's not harmless Brian.    tsk  tsk    Shocked Shocked


Prove it, Bobby.  Quote a scientific paper by a reputable radiologist.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Brian,
you don't need a scientific paper.
Even a halfwit can see that it's dangerous.
Would you like some depleted Uranium for your dinner tonight?     tsk  tsk     Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


I won't because of the dangers that heavy metals pose, not because of the supposed radioactivity, Bobby.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Jasin
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Re: depleted Uranium ammunition to be used in Ukraine
Reply #23 - Mar 25th, 2023 at 4:30pm
 
Hi Bobby.

Do you think little green men like Brian get their jollies over clips like this?
Do you think they invent 'aliens' as their imaginary dragons, because they haven't the balls to admit they want to kill other humans who don't conform to their culture?


Radioactive by Imagine Dragons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY89yHZO048
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Bobby.
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Re: depleted Uranium ammunition to be used in Ukraine
Reply #24 - Mar 25th, 2023 at 7:21pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 25th, 2023 at 3:29pm:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 25th, 2023 at 2:47pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 25th, 2023 at 2:41pm:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 25th, 2023 at 2:38pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 25th, 2023 at 2:36pm:
Which renders it basically harmless, Bobby.  DU is basically useless for radioactive purposes.  Run along to your radiation proof bunker, Bobby.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


It's not harmless Brian.    tsk  tsk    Shocked Shocked


Prove it, Bobby.  Quote a scientific paper by a reputable radiologist.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Brian,
you don't need a scientific paper.
Even a halfwit can see that it's dangerous.
Would you like some depleted Uranium for your dinner tonight?     tsk  tsk     Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


I won't because of the dangers that heavy metals pose, not because of the supposed radioactivity, Bobby.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



Brian is not afraid of radioactivity - even 1,300 times the normal background level:



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Jasin
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Re: depleted Uranium ammunition to be used in Ukraine
Reply #25 - Mar 25th, 2023 at 7:37pm
 
Earth is under attack by little green men of War
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Bobby.
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Re: depleted Uranium ammunition to be used in Ukraine
Reply #26 - Mar 25th, 2023 at 7:43pm
 
https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2023-03-24/russia-says-use-of-deplete...


By Reuters

|
March 24, 2023, at 7:07 a.m.
U.S. News & World Report

Russia Says Use of Depleted Uranium Shells in Ukraine Would Harm Population, Land for Decades
More

(Reuters) - Russia's defence ministry said on Friday that the use of depleted uranium shells in Ukraine would harm Ukrainian troops, the wider population and negatively affect the country's agriculture sector for decades or even centuries.

Russia has reacted furiously to plans outlined by Britain earlier this week to send shells containing depleted uranium to Ukraine.

London says they are a conventional form of ammunition, but President Vladimir Putin said the move showed NATO members were sending weapons with a "nuclear component" to Kyiv.

"The West is well aware of the negative consequences of using depleted uranium ammunition," Igor Kirillov, head of the Nuclear, Biological and Chemical Protection Forces of Russia's defence ministry said in a statement on Friday.

He said data on the use of depleted uranium by the United States and is allies in the Balkans and Iraq showed serious and lasting negative impacts on local populations and the environment.


Ukraine's agricultural industry could suffer "for decades,
if not centuries, into the future," he said.



Critics of the use of depleted uranium, such as the International Coalition to Ban Uranium Weapons,
say the dust created by such weapons can be breathed in while munitions
which miss their target can poison groundwater and soil.
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Brian Ross
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Re: depleted Uranium ammunition to be used in Ukraine
Reply #27 - Mar 25th, 2023 at 8:32pm
 
Quote:
Radiological hazards

The primary radiation danger from pure depleted uranium is due to alpha particles, which do not travel far through air, and do not penetrate clothing. However, in a matter of a month or so, a sample of pure depleted uranium will generate small amounts of thorium-234 and protactinium-234, which emit the more penetrating beta particles at almost the same rate as the uranium emits alpha particles. This is because uranium-238 decays directly to thorium-234, which with a half-life of 24 days decays to protactinium-234, which in turn decays in a matter of hours to the long-lived uranium-234. A quasi-steady state is therefore reached within a few multiples of 24 days.[notes 3]

Available evidence suggests that the radiation risk is small relative to the chemical hazard.[97]

[Source]
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Bobby.
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Re: depleted Uranium ammunition to be used in Ukraine
Reply #28 - Mar 25th, 2023 at 8:43pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 25th, 2023 at 8:32pm:
Quote:
Radiological hazards

The primary radiation danger from pure depleted uranium is due to alpha particles, which do not travel far through air, and do not penetrate clothing. However, in a matter of a month or so, a sample of pure depleted uranium will generate small amounts of thorium-234 and protactinium-234, which emit the more penetrating beta particles at almost the same rate as the uranium emits alpha particles. This is because uranium-238 decays directly to thorium-234, which with a half-life of 24 days decays to protactinium-234, which in turn decays in a matter of hours to the long-lived uranium-234. A quasi-steady state is therefore reached within a few multiples of 24 days.[notes 3]

Available evidence suggests that the radiation risk is small relative to the chemical hazard.[97]

[Source]



Thanks for that link:


Health considerations

Normal functioning of the kidney, brain, liver, heart, and numerous other systems can be affected by uranium exposure because uranium is a toxic metal,[8] although less toxic than other heavy metals, such as arsenic and mercury.[83] It is weakly radioactive but is 'persistently' so because of its long half-life. The Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry states that: "to be exposed to radiation from uranium, you have to eat, drink, or breathe it, or get it on your skin."[84] If DU particles do enter an individual, the type of danger presented—toxic vs. radiological—and the organ most likely to be affected depend on the solubility of the particles.[85]

In military conflicts involving DU munitions, the major concern is inhalation of DU particles in aerosols arising from the impacts of DU-enhanced projectiles with their targets.[85] When depleted uranium munitions penetrate armor or burn, they create depleted uranium oxides in the form of dust that can be inhaled or contaminate wounds. The Institute of Nuclear Technology-Radiation Protection of Attiki, Greece, has noted that "the aerosol produced during impact and combustion of depleted uranium munitions can potentially contaminate wide areas around the impact sites or can be inhaled by civilians and military personnel".[10] The use of DU in incendiary ammunition is controversial because of potential adverse health effects and its release into the environment.
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Belgarion
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Re: depleted Uranium ammunition to be used in Ukraine
Reply #29 - Mar 25th, 2023 at 9:41pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Mar 25th, 2023 at 8:43pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 25th, 2023 at 8:32pm:
Quote:
Radiological hazards

The primary radiation danger from pure depleted uranium is due to alpha particles, which do not travel far through air, and do not penetrate clothing. However, in a matter of a month or so, a sample of pure depleted uranium will generate small amounts of thorium-234 and protactinium-234, which emit the more penetrating beta particles at almost the same rate as the uranium emits alpha particles. This is because uranium-238 decays directly to thorium-234, which with a half-life of 24 days decays to protactinium-234, which in turn decays in a matter of hours to the long-lived uranium-234. A quasi-steady state is therefore reached within a few multiples of 24 days.[notes 3]

Available evidence suggests that the radiation risk is small relative to the chemical hazard.[97]

[Source]



Thanks for that link:


Health considerations

Normal functioning of the kidney, brain, liver, heart, and numerous other systems can be affected by uranium exposure because uranium is a toxic metal,[8] although less toxic than other heavy metals, such as arsenic and mercury.[83] It is weakly radioactive but is 'persistently' so because of its long half-life. The Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry states that: "to be exposed to radiation from uranium, you have to eat, drink, or breathe it, or get it on your skin."[84] If DU particles do enter an individual, the type of danger presented—toxic vs. radiological—and the organ most likely to be affected depend on the solubility of the particles.[85]

In military conflicts involving DU munitions, the major concern is inhalation of DU particles in aerosols arising from the impacts of DU-enhanced projectiles with their targets.[85] When depleted uranium munitions penetrate armor or burn, they create depleted uranium oxides in the form of dust that can be inhaled or contaminate wounds. The Institute of Nuclear Technology-Radiation Protection of Attiki, Greece, has noted that "the aerosol produced during impact and combustion of depleted uranium munitions can potentially contaminate wide areas around the impact sites or can be inhaled by civilians and military personnel".[10] The use of DU in incendiary ammunition is controversial because of potential adverse health effects and its release into the environment.


You have not understood the references I posted earlier, have you Bobby?
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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

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