Australian Politics Forum - the wrong referendum

thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 12461 Gender:	Re: the wrong referendum Reply #60 - Apr 12^th, 2023 at 12:58pm Frank wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 12:33pm: Aborigines are given BILLIONS to deliver services to other Aborigines? Why don't they? Most of the money goes to the bureaucrats - and costs - of running the poverty industry. What is required is non-market-based employment organized at the local level.
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Gnads

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Re: the wrong referendum
Reply #61 - Apr 12^th, 2023 at 1:01pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 9:33pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 7:05pm:

pollywannacracka?

Merely demonstrating your blind mentality, and not even capable of attempting to deny your outright lies.

You agreed with me that welfare dependency is enforced not chosen (in #10), and ever since you have been running away from it.

Deplorable, ending with your outright lie in #38.

Absolute horse pucky.....people choose to stay on country... where there is no industry or chance of employment.

They choose to stay connected so dey kin do culture ey.

They want it both ways.

And so do you it seems.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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philperth2010

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Re: the wrong referendum
Reply #62 - Apr 12^th, 2023 at 1:04pm

Frank wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 12:33pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 11:32am:

Gnads wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 11:01am:

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 9^th, 2023 at 12:14pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2023 at 11:42am:

Quote:

Why can't you spell out why it is Communism

I did. In the article. That's why you are asking the question. I'll give you a hint: the means of production are owned communally. If you want more detail, go back to the bit in the article that talks about the means of production being owned communally.

Why is this so complicated for you?

Why is it so hard to articulate your argument in a rational way....You could just copy and paste the part of the article that supports your argument....I fail to see what is communist about giving people a Voice???

Huh

They already have more than enough "voices" .....

what part of that escapes you?

Why should one racial group be entitled to an ear directly to the Govt and all other groups not?

And why should that racial difference be recognised in the Constitution which already represents all Australians.

We live in a Representative Democracy ... and Aboriginals are already well represented.

Anyone who says they are not is a delusional liar.

How many remote Aboriginal communities have Government Representatives....How many remote Aboriginal communities have health care or education....How many remote Aboriginal communities have employment opportunities....The Mabo and Wik decisions gave Land Rights and Native Title to Aboriginal people as long as they maintain a physical and spiritual connection to their traditional lands....This is causing a problem when the services are not delivered and Aboriginal people remain on there traditional lands or lose them....The Voice will give these communities the chance to have positive input and make decisions concerning there own lives and needs....The current model is failing and remote Aboriginal people are not heard or considered by Government decision makers who do nothing to support these communities....The Voice will at least give the Government some input that is sadly lacking!!!

Huh

Aborigines are given BILLIONS to deliver services to other Aborigines?
Why don't they?

They do to some extent however it is not working is it....The Voice will allow these services to be delivered to communities with there involvement....Local communities will advise the Voice Committee about what services are required and how they can be delivered....The Government of the day will consider these proposals and either accept or reject them if they are not sound....I would put education and health as the top priority!!!

Huh

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thegreatdivide

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Re: the wrong referendum
Reply #63 - Apr 12^th, 2023 at 1:11pm

Gnads wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 1:01pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 9:33pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 7:05pm:

pollywannacracka?

Merely demonstrating your blind mentality, and not even capable of attempting to deny your outright lies.

You agreed with me that welfare dependency is enforced not chosen (in #10), and ever since you have been running away from it.

Deplorable, ending with your outright lie in #38.

Absolute horse pucky.....people choose to stay on country... where there is no industry or chance of employment.

Most people on the povertry-level dole, long-term, "choose" to stay where they are, because welfare dependency is difficult to escape from (considering costs of transport, housing etc).

Quote:

They choose to stay connected so dey kin do culture ey.

Well... welfare does enable them to subsist in poverty, where they are, hence the gap.

Quote:

They want it both ways.

They are torn between two cultures.

Quote:

And so do you it seems.

I want guaranteed above-poverty employment for all, thus eliminating welfare dependency altogether.

https://pavlina-tcherneva.net/the-case-for-a-job-guarantee/

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Bias_2012

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Re: the wrong referendum
Reply #64 - Apr 12^th, 2023 at 3:27pm

Jasin wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 8:39am:

The Voice will be spoken in English and not in 'traditional' tongues.
The Voice will be speaking the Media narrative: of Black Man getting sex from Whites in America, like Black Man getting money from Whites in Australia.
The Voice is Blacks 'colonisation' of Whites.

When advertisers deliberately pair up a white girl with a black man for TV advertising of products and services, the black man is always a tall black African, never an Aboriginal bloke, That's how fair dinkum they are about the Voice, .. they couldn't give a stuff, black Africans are more trendy to them any day of the week than Aboriginals will ever be

Wokeness favors the black African. There's no Aboriginal "Voice" in commercial TV advertising. John Singleton needs a rap over the knuckles

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Our Lives Are Governed By The Feast & Famine Variable

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Gnads

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Re: the wrong referendum
Reply #65 - Apr 12^th, 2023 at 5:52pm

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 1:04pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 12:33pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 11:32am:

Gnads wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 11:01am:

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 9^th, 2023 at 12:14pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2023 at 11:42am:

Quote:

Why can't you spell out why it is Communism

I did. In the article. That's why you are asking the question. I'll give you a hint: the means of production are owned communally. If you want more detail, go back to the bit in the article that talks about the means of production being owned communally.

Why is this so complicated for you?

Why is it so hard to articulate your argument in a rational way....You could just copy and paste the part of the article that supports your argument....I fail to see what is communist about giving people a Voice???

Huh

They already have more than enough "voices" .....

what part of that escapes you?

Why should one racial group be entitled to an ear directly to the Govt and all other groups not?

And why should that racial difference be recognised in the Constitution which already represents all Australians.

We live in a Representative Democracy ... and Aboriginals are already well represented.

Anyone who says they are not is a delusional liar.

How many remote Aboriginal communities have Government Representatives....How many remote Aboriginal communities have health care or education....How many remote Aboriginal communities have employment opportunities....The Mabo and Wik decisions gave Land Rights and Native Title to Aboriginal people as long as they maintain a physical and spiritual connection to their traditional lands....This is causing a problem when the services are not delivered and Aboriginal people remain on there traditional lands or lose them....The Voice will give these communities the chance to have positive input and make decisions concerning there own lives and needs....The current model is failing and remote Aboriginal people are not heard or considered by Government decision makers who do nothing to support these communities....The Voice will at least give the Government some input that is sadly lacking!!!

Huh

Aborigines are given BILLIONS to deliver services to other Aborigines?
Why don't they?

They do to some extent however it is not working is it....The Voice will allow these services to be delivered to communities with there involvement....Local communities will advise the Voice Committee about what services are required and how they can be delivered....The Government of the day will consider these proposals and either accept or reject them if they are not sound....I would put education and health as the top priority!!!

Huh

And you know this how?

FMD you're just another deluded guilt ridden softcock SJW.

There is no need to amend the constitution to give programs & assistance to remote communities.

It's a total load of bollocks.... a racially divisive idea swallowed by wankers like you.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Gnads

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Re: the wrong referendum
Reply #66 - Apr 12^th, 2023 at 5:57pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 1:11pm:

Gnads wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 1:01pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 9:33pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 7:05pm:

pollywannacracka?

Merely demonstrating your blind mentality, and not even capable of attempting to deny your outright lies.

You agreed with me that welfare dependency is enforced not chosen (in #10), and ever since you have been running away from it.

Deplorable, ending with your outright lie in #38.

Absolute horse pucky.....people choose to stay on country... where there is no industry or chance of employment.

Most people on the povertry-level dole, long-term, "choose" to stay where they are, because welfare dependency is difficult to escape from (considering costs of transport, housing etc).

Quote:

They choose to stay connected so dey kin do culture ey.

Well... welfare does enable them to subsist in poverty, where they are, hence the gap.

Quote:

They want it both ways.

They are torn between two cultures.

Quote:

And so do you it seems.

I want guaranteed above-poverty employment for all, thus eliminating welfare dependency altogether.

https://pavlina-tcherneva.net/the-case-for-a-job-guarantee/

Rubbish they move from state to state, city to city or regional centres all the phukking time.

Big city bred ferals are moving to my regional area at huge rates.

1. because employment opportunities are scarce(they don't want to work).

2. because the old man is doing time in our local prison ....

so family turn up lock, stock & barrel demanding crisis housing, straining scant resources & bringing further criminality to the community.

Your grandiose ideology does nothing in reality ... just like your grasp on it.

What you want & the reality of how it can be achieved is just pipe dream BS.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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philperth2010

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Re: the wrong referendum
Reply #67 - Apr 12^th, 2023 at 7:05pm

Gnads wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 5:52pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 1:04pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 12:33pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 11:32am:

Gnads wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 11:01am:

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 9^th, 2023 at 12:14pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2023 at 11:42am:

Quote:

Why can't you spell out why it is Communism

I did. In the article. That's why you are asking the question. I'll give you a hint: the means of production are owned communally. If you want more detail, go back to the bit in the article that talks about the means of production being owned communally.

Why is this so complicated for you?

Why is it so hard to articulate your argument in a rational way....You could just copy and paste the part of the article that supports your argument....I fail to see what is communist about giving people a Voice???

Huh

They already have more than enough "voices" .....

what part of that escapes you?

Why should one racial group be entitled to an ear directly to the Govt and all other groups not?

And why should that racial difference be recognised in the Constitution which already represents all Australians.

We live in a Representative Democracy ... and Aboriginals are already well represented.

Anyone who says they are not is a delusional liar.

How many remote Aboriginal communities have Government Representatives....How many remote Aboriginal communities have health care or education....How many remote Aboriginal communities have employment opportunities....The Mabo and Wik decisions gave Land Rights and Native Title to Aboriginal people as long as they maintain a physical and spiritual connection to their traditional lands....This is causing a problem when the services are not delivered and Aboriginal people remain on there traditional lands or lose them....The Voice will give these communities the chance to have positive input and make decisions concerning there own lives and needs....The current model is failing and remote Aboriginal people are not heard or considered by Government decision makers who do nothing to support these communities....The Voice will at least give the Government some input that is sadly lacking!!!

Huh

Aborigines are given BILLIONS to deliver services to other Aborigines?
Why don't they?

They do to some extent however it is not working is it....The Voice will allow these services to be delivered to communities with there involvement....Local communities will advise the Voice Committee about what services are required and how they can be delivered....The Government of the day will consider these proposals and either accept or reject them if they are not sound....I would put education and health as the top priority!!!

Huh

And you know this how?

FMD you're just another deluded guilt ridden softcock SJW.

There is no need to amend the constitution to give programs & assistance to remote communities.

It's a total load of bollocks.... a racially divisive idea swallowed by wankers like you.

Go away troll....You provide nothing meaningful to any debate....I am no longer lowering myself to your level....I have made my point!!!

Roll Eyes

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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: the wrong referendum
Reply #68 - Apr 12^th, 2023 at 7:25pm

Simple answer then - we take the billions out of their hands and put it in the hands of a single overseeing body that will consider their applications on merit for any funding and will disburse cash as it sees fit for worthwhile projects while keeping a very close watch on what actually happens and reporting weekly back to the relevant Minister.

They've proven and are proving that handling money is not in them, so somebody needs to do it for them. Cool

I've proven my point here.................... Cool

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 136402 Gender:	Re: the wrong referendum Reply #69 - Apr 12^th, 2023 at 8:14pm If Liberal Party members vote 'yes', will Dutton drive them out into the bush, steal their shoes, and then make them walk home? I'm curious.
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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 47391 Gender:	Re: the wrong referendum Reply #70 - Apr 12^th, 2023 at 8:38pm Black Man steals your White Pussy in America. Black Man steals your White Money in Australia. ...not so superior White People, eh?
Back to top	AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY. IP Logged

thegreatdivide

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Re: the wrong referendum
Reply #71 - Apr 12^th, 2023 at 8:59pm

Gnads wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 5:57pm:

Rubbish they move from state to state, city to city or regional centres all the phukking time.

yes...on the dole: hence congregating in public parks much of the time, with time to kill getting drunk.

Quote:

Big city bred ferals are moving to my regional area at huge rates.

That too..,.all the time on the dole.

Quote:

1. because employment opportunities are scarce(they don't want to work).

The first half of that is correct, the second half is RW nonsense; we all want to - indeed, have to - work to prosper; those forced into welfare dependency cannot prosper.

Quote:

2. because the old man is doing time in our local prison ....

Very likely, all part of life in welfare dependent communities.

Quote:

so family turn up lock, stock & barrel demanding crisis housing, straining scant resources & bringing further criminality to the community.

possibly, but they likely won't get it, that's why most blacks don't stray too far from their camps near centres like the Alice.

Quote:

Your grandiose ideology does nothing in reality ... just like your grasp on it.

What's "grandiose" about a Job Guarantee? It's good common sense, as recommended by Pavlina Tcherneva.

Quote:

What you want & the reality of how it can be achieved is just pipe dream BS.

I'll forward your "knowledge" to Prof. Tcherneva...

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freediver

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Re: the wrong referendum
Reply #72 - Apr 13^th, 2023 at 6:46am

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 8:36am:

Here is the proposal for the Voice referendum!!!

Quote:

Constitutional amendment
The proposed law that Australians are being asked to approve at the referendum would insert a new section into the Constitution:

"Chapter IX Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples
129 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice
In recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as the First Peoples of Australia:

There shall be a body, to be called the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice;
The Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice may make representations to the Parliament and the Executive Government of the Commonwealth on matters relating to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples;

The Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws with respect to matters relating to the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice, including its composition, functions, powers and procedures.”

Quote:

In summary, these principles are:

The Voice will give independent advice to the Parliament and Government
The Voice will be chosen by Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people based on the wishes of local communities
The Voice will be representative of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities, gender balanced and include youth
The Voice will be empowering, community-led, inclusive, respectful and culturally informed
The Voice will be accountable and transparent
The Voice will work alongside existing organisations and traditional structures
The Voice will not have a program delivery function
The Voice will not have a veto power.

https://www.niaa.gov.au/indigenous-affairs/referendum-aboriginal-and-torres-stra...

How will it be chosen by Aboriginal people? Is the government going to set up a parallel democracy based on race?

Quote:

How many remote Aboriginal communities have employment opportunities....

They all have the same opportunity as everyone else - to go back to work after their camping trip. They choose not to.

Quote:

The Mabo and Wik decisions gave Land Rights and Native Title to Aboriginal people as long as they maintain a physical and spiritual connection to their traditional lands....

As the article explains, this is a communist poverty trap.

Quote:

This is causing a problem when the services are not delivered

You are very confused Phil. We are under no obligation to provide the same services to people who choose to liver in remote communities as we do to those who choose to live where those services can actually be provided.

Quote:

The Voice will give these communities the chance to have positive input

How?

Quote:

and make decisions concerning there own lives

You mean our lives, by demanding we mobilise at huge expense to provide services to remote communities with no viable or sustainable industry? Just an ever expanding parasitisation?

Quote:

who do nothing to support these communities

Why can't they expected to support themselves?

Quote:

They do to some extent however it is not working is it....

It is not working because of racists like you Phil. You would not tell these lies to a dying remote community of white people, but you happily trot them out to Aborigines and make false promises of endless services to unsustainable communities.

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« Last Edit: Apr 13^th, 2023 at 6:57am by freediver »

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Gnads

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Re: the wrong referendum
Reply #73 - Apr 13^th, 2023 at 7:11am

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 7:05pm:

Gnads wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 5:52pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 1:04pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 12:33pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 11:32am:

Gnads wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 11:01am:

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 9^th, 2023 at 12:14pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2023 at 11:42am:

Quote:

Why can't you spell out why it is Communism

I did. In the article. That's why you are asking the question. I'll give you a hint: the means of production are owned communally. If you want more detail, go back to the bit in the article that talks about the means of production being owned communally.

Why is this so complicated for you?

Why is it so hard to articulate your argument in a rational way....You could just copy and paste the part of the article that supports your argument....I fail to see what is communist about giving people a Voice???

Huh

They already have more than enough "voices" .....

what part of that escapes you?

Why should one racial group be entitled to an ear directly to the Govt and all other groups not?

And why should that racial difference be recognised in the Constitution which already represents all Australians.

We live in a Representative Democracy ... and Aboriginals are already well represented.

Anyone who says they are not is a delusional liar.

How many remote Aboriginal communities have Government Representatives....How many remote Aboriginal communities have health care or education....How many remote Aboriginal communities have employment opportunities....The Mabo and Wik decisions gave Land Rights and Native Title to Aboriginal people as long as they maintain a physical and spiritual connection to their traditional lands....This is causing a problem when the services are not delivered and Aboriginal people remain on there traditional lands or lose them....The Voice will give these communities the chance to have positive input and make decisions concerning there own lives and needs....The current model is failing and remote Aboriginal people are not heard or considered by Government decision makers who do nothing to support these communities....The Voice will at least give the Government some input that is sadly lacking!!!

Huh

Aborigines are given BILLIONS to deliver services to other Aborigines?
Why don't they?

They do to some extent however it is not working is it....The Voice will allow these services to be delivered to communities with there involvement....Local communities will advise the Voice Committee about what services are required and how they can be delivered....The Government of the day will consider these proposals and either accept or reject them if they are not sound....I would put education and health as the top priority!!!

Huh

And you know this how?

FMD you're just another deluded guilt ridden softcock SJW.

There is no need to amend the constitution to give programs & assistance to remote communities.

It's a total load of bollocks.... a racially divisive idea swallowed by wankers like you.

Go away troll....You provide nothing meaningful to any debate....I am no longer lowering myself to your level....I have made my point!!!

Roll Eyes

You have no point

just a Google copy & paste half baked woke wanker

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Gnads

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Re: the wrong referendum
Reply #74 - Apr 13^th, 2023 at 7:17am

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 8:59pm: