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the wrong referendum (Read 11738 times)
philperth2010
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Re: the wrong referendum
Reply #75 - Apr 13th, 2023 at 9:13am
 
Gnads wrote on Apr 13th, 2023 at 7:11am:
philperth2010 wrote on Apr 12th, 2023 at 7:05pm:
Gnads wrote on Apr 12th, 2023 at 5:52pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Apr 12th, 2023 at 1:04pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2023 at 12:33pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Apr 12th, 2023 at 11:32am:
Gnads wrote on Apr 12th, 2023 at 11:01am:
philperth2010 wrote on Apr 9th, 2023 at 12:14pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 9th, 2023 at 11:42am:
Quote:
Why can't you spell out why it is Communism


I did. In the article. That's why you are asking the question. I'll give you a hint: the means of production are owned communally. If you want more detail, go back to the bit in the article that talks about the means of production being owned communally.

Why is this so complicated for you?


Why is it so hard to articulate your argument in a rational way....You could just copy and paste the part of the article that supports your argument....I fail to see what is communist about giving people a Voice???

Huh Huh Huh


They already have more than enough "voices" .....

what part of that escapes you?

Why should one racial group be entitled to an ear directly to the Govt and all other groups not?

And why should that racial difference be recognised in the Constitution which already represents all Australians.

We live in a Representative Democracy ... and Aboriginals are already well represented.

Anyone who says they are not is a delusional liar.



How many remote Aboriginal communities have Government Representatives....How many remote Aboriginal communities have health care or education....How many remote Aboriginal communities have employment opportunities....The Mabo and Wik decisions gave Land Rights and Native Title to Aboriginal people as long as they maintain a physical and spiritual connection to their traditional lands....This is causing a problem when the services are not delivered and Aboriginal people remain on there traditional lands or lose them....The Voice will give these communities the chance to have positive input and make decisions concerning there own lives and needs....The current model is failing and remote Aboriginal people are not heard or considered by Government decision makers who do nothing to support these communities....The Voice will at least give the Government some input that is sadly lacking!!!

Huh Huh Huh 

Aborigines are given BILLIONS to deliver services to other Aborigines?
Why don't they?


They do to some extent however it is not working is it....The Voice will allow these services to be delivered to communities with there involvement....Local communities will advise the Voice Committee about what services are required and how they can be delivered....The Government of the day will consider these proposals and either accept or reject them if they are not sound....I would put education and health as the top priority!!!

Huh Huh Huh




And you know this how?

FMD you're just another deluded guilt ridden softcock SJW.

There is no need to amend the constitution to give programs & assistance to remote communities.

It's a total load of bollocks.... a racially divisive idea swallowed by wankers like you.


Go away troll....You provide nothing meaningful to any debate....I am no longer lowering myself to your level....I have made my point!!!

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


You have no point

just a Google copy & paste half baked woke wanker


As opposed to you contributing nothing but abuse and bullshit....Posting links to support my argument is not woke it is trying to have a debate on the issues....You and Freediver have nothing but your pathetic opinions based on your racist right wing bullshit....You are nothing but a pathetic troll who only contributes abuse to any debate....Grow up!!!

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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« Last Edit: Apr 13th, 2023 at 9:52am by philperth2010 »  

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philperth2010
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Re: the wrong referendum
Reply #76 - Apr 13th, 2023 at 9:17am
 
freediver wrote on Apr 13th, 2023 at 6:46am:
philperth2010 wrote on Apr 12th, 2023 at 8:36am:
Here is the proposal for the Voice referendum!!!

Quote:
Constitutional amendment
The proposed law that Australians are being asked to approve at the referendum would insert a new section into the Constitution:

"Chapter IX Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples
129 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice
In recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as the First Peoples of Australia:

There shall be a body, to be called the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice;
The Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice may make representations to the Parliament and the Executive Government of the Commonwealth on matters relating to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples;

The Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws with respect to matters relating to the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice, including its composition, functions, powers and procedures.”



Quote:
In summary, these principles are:

The Voice will give independent advice to the Parliament and Government
The Voice will be chosen by Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people based on the wishes of local communities
The Voice will be representative of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities, gender balanced and include youth
The Voice will be empowering, community-led, inclusive, respectful and culturally informed
The Voice will be accountable and transparent
The Voice will work alongside existing organisations and traditional structures
The Voice will not have a program delivery function
The Voice will not have a veto power.


Huh Huh Huh

https://www.niaa.gov.au/indigenous-affairs/referendum-aboriginal-and-torres-stra...


How will it be chosen by Aboriginal people? Is the government going to set up a parallel democracy based on race?

Quote:
How many remote Aboriginal communities have employment opportunities....


They all have the same opportunity as everyone else - to go back to work after their camping trip. They choose not to.

Quote:
The Mabo and Wik decisions gave Land Rights and Native Title to Aboriginal people as long as they maintain a physical and spiritual connection to their traditional lands....


As the article explains, this is a communist poverty trap.

Quote:
This is causing a problem when the services are not delivered


You are very confused Phil. We are under no obligation to provide the same services to people who choose to liver in remote communities as we do to those who choose to live where those services can actually be provided.

Quote:
The Voice will give these communities the chance to have positive input


How?

Quote:
and make decisions concerning there own lives


You mean our lives, by demanding we mobilise at huge expense to provide services to remote communities with no viable or sustainable industry? Just an ever expanding parasitisation?

Quote:
who do nothing to support these communities


Why can't they expected to support themselves?

Quote:
They do to some extent however it is not working is it....


It is not working because of racists like you Phil. You would not tell these lies to a dying remote community of white people, but you happily trot them out to Aborigines and make false promises of endless services to unsustainable communities.


Racist low ebb bullshit from our resident right wing dictator....Your whole argument is based on your own pathetic opinion not what is proposed by the voice....What is the point in trying to debate someone who claims his bullshit is fact???

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: the wrong referendum
Reply #77 - Apr 13th, 2023 at 9:50am
 
Gnads wrote on Apr 13th, 2023 at 7:17am:
That's you in a nutshell ... you have no idea about certain peoples mindset......


Ok, lets see what you got.... [but note: the Alice Springs Police Commissioner himself recently said the problem of crime in the Alice is related to welfare dependency: and kids are too scared to go home at night for fear of abuse by dysfunctional drunken adults].

Quote:
especially that of generational & in some cases career welfare recipients. They do not possess a work ethic & that's something that is growing across generations.


Well... so you now agree; generational welfare dependency is a problem, though I see you are still persisting with your ignorance that people choose it ("career welfare recipients"). 

But people only "choose it" because they can, in the absence of alternative employment opportunities.

Hence the need for a JG, to eliminate the possibility of that choice.

1+ 1 = 2   

Quote:
I don't know who your Prof. Tcherneva is but I'd suggest they, if of a similar mindset to you that you'd better get your "voices" to Parliament & get this situation sorted once & for all ......


She is a post Keynesian economist, repudiating the  current mainstream neoclassical orthodoxy responsible for the current economic dysfunction in the world.

Quote:
especially as you & he/she think you have all the answers & are so much more intelligent than all those who have gone before you ...politicians, professional bureaucrats, social scientists, academics etc etc whose joint efforts over 60 years have yet to solve the endemic problems within regional & remote Aboriginal communities..


Unfortunately the current crop of  neoclassical economists in academia are financed by wealthy corporation bosses who benefit the most from the present neoliberal market system; entrenched poverty amid soaring inequality doesn't concern them. 

Quote:
despite the 100's of billions of dollars in building infrastructure for housing, education, health & employment in those communities.


and yet welfare dependency is still 'tolerated'  - actualy enforced -  and people are living in broken hovels, with the worst health outcomes in the nation.   

Quote:
BTW the 2 nd highlight I made ... I wasn't just referring to Aboriginals .... in the main it's non Aboriginal ferals.


Indeed: welfare dependency is THE barrier to prosperity, for blacks and non-blacks; we all have to work in order to prosper.
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Re: the wrong referendum
Reply #78 - Apr 13th, 2023 at 6:04pm
 
philperth2010 wrote on Apr 13th, 2023 at 9:17am:
freediver wrote on Apr 13th, 2023 at 6:46am:
philperth2010 wrote on Apr 12th, 2023 at 8:36am:
Here is the proposal for the Voice referendum!!!

Quote:
Constitutional amendment
The proposed law that Australians are being asked to approve at the referendum would insert a new section into the Constitution:

"Chapter IX Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples
129 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice
In recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as the First Peoples of Australia:

There shall be a body, to be called the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice;
The Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice may make representations to the Parliament and the Executive Government of the Commonwealth on matters relating to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples;

The Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws with respect to matters relating to the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice, including its composition, functions, powers and procedures.”



Quote:
In summary, these principles are:

The Voice will give independent advice to the Parliament and Government
The Voice will be chosen by Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people based on the wishes of local communities
The Voice will be representative of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities, gender balanced and include youth
The Voice will be empowering, community-led, inclusive, respectful and culturally informed
The Voice will be accountable and transparent
The Voice will work alongside existing organisations and traditional structures
The Voice will not have a program delivery function
The Voice will not have a veto power.


Huh Huh Huh

https://www.niaa.gov.au/indigenous-affairs/referendum-aboriginal-and-torres-stra...


How will it be chosen by Aboriginal people? Is the government going to set up a parallel democracy based on race?

Quote:
How many remote Aboriginal communities have employment opportunities....


They all have the same opportunity as everyone else - to go back to work after their camping trip. They choose not to.

Quote:
The Mabo and Wik decisions gave Land Rights and Native Title to Aboriginal people as long as they maintain a physical and spiritual connection to their traditional lands....


As the article explains, this is a communist poverty trap.

Quote:
This is causing a problem when the services are not delivered


You are very confused Phil. We are under no obligation to provide the same services to people who choose to liver in remote communities as we do to those who choose to live where those services can actually be provided.

Quote:
The Voice will give these communities the chance to have positive input


How?

Quote:
and make decisions concerning there own lives


You mean our lives, by demanding we mobilise at huge expense to provide services to remote communities with no viable or sustainable industry? Just an ever expanding parasitisation?

Quote:
who do nothing to support these communities


Why can't they expected to support themselves?

Quote:
They do to some extent however it is not working is it....


It is not working because of racists like you Phil. You would not tell these lies to a dying remote community of white people, but you happily trot them out to Aborigines and make false promises of endless services to unsustainable communities.


Racist low ebb bullshit from our resident right wing dictator....Your whole argument is based on your own pathetic opinion not what is proposed by the voice....What is the point in trying to debate someone who claims his bullshit is fact???

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Are you trying to say you do not understand what is going on Phil?
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Re: the wrong referendum
Reply #79 - Apr 13th, 2023 at 8:38pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 13th, 2023 at 6:04pm:
It is not working because of racists like you Phil. You would not tell these lies to a dying remote community of white people, but you happily trot them out to Aborigines and make false promises of endless services to unsustainable communities.


Of course in formerly majority white towns which have devolved  in the past eg, when railways (or river steamers)  were closed, we  saw most white people - who were mostly previously employed (not on the dole) - take  a more realistic chance of moving to another centre and rejoining the workforce, while the blacks who were more likely living on the dole tended to remain put.

See what  happens when you run away from the fact that welfare dependency is enforced not chosen.....  Wilcannia is a classic example. 

Quote:
Are you trying to say you do not understand what is going on Phil?


Classic - coming from you who agreed welfare dependency is enforced, not chosen (in #10), but since then have lost your train of thought, apparently.....
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Re: the wrong referendum
Reply #80 - Apr 13th, 2023 at 8:41pm
 
Quote:
we  saw most white people - who were mostly previously employed (not on the dole) - take  a more realistic chance of moving to another centre and rejoining the workforce, while the blacks who were more likely living on the dole tended to remain put


Do you have any evidence for this? For someone who previously thought we were in the USA, you are getting remarkably detailed.
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Re: the wrong referendum
Reply #81 - Apr 13th, 2023 at 9:27pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 13th, 2023 at 8:41pm:
Quote:
we  saw most white people - who were mostly previously employed (not on the dole) - take  a more realistic chance of moving to another centre and rejoining the workforce, while the blacks who were more likely living on the dole tended to remain put


Do you have any evidence for this? For someone who previously thought we were in the USA, you are getting remarkably detailed.


Read the history of Wilcannia, a flourishing river town in the late 1800s. The (now closed?) PO is still a remarkable example of outback Victorian architecture, but sadly the town itself has largely  reverted to welfare- dependent poverty.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-27/future-of-wilcannias-post-office-not-in-d...

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« Last Edit: Apr 13th, 2023 at 9:34pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
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Re: the wrong referendum
Reply #82 - Apr 14th, 2023 at 6:34am
 
So a single example proves your sweeping generalisation? Isn't that like me saying the CCP put the entire country under water?

You can learn a lot about a country over the internet, but if you have never actually been there, there are always some things you just won't pick up on.
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Re: the wrong referendum
Reply #83 - Apr 14th, 2023 at 6:50am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 13th, 2023 at 9:27pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 13th, 2023 at 8:41pm:
Quote:
we  saw most white people - who were mostly previously employed (not on the dole) - take  a more realistic chance of moving to another centre and rejoining the workforce, while the blacks who were more likely living on the dole tended to remain put


Do you have any evidence for this? For someone who previously thought we were in the USA, you are getting remarkably detailed.


Read the history of Wilcannia, a flourishing river town in the late 1800s. The (now closed?) PO is still a remarkable example of outback Victorian architecture, but sadly the town itself has largely  reverted to welfare- dependent poverty.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-27/future-of-wilcannias-post-office-not-in-d...





Remote area - no jobs.  I suppose you could just stamp jobs out of the ground or just pay everyone a wage to sit around and call it a job.... pretend that being paid for nothing, that modern day Indigenous dream - to be paid handsomely and in style for simply having been remotely somehow in the past related to the First Settlers.

It's never going to be the answer no matter how it is disguised and vamped up and given new names.. all it is in reality is 'paying the rent' on a nation that nobody here today rents from anyone.
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Re: the wrong referendum
Reply #84 - Apr 14th, 2023 at 9:44am
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 14th, 2023 at 6:50am:
Remote area - no jobs. 


Towns like Wilcannia can't be simply abandoned.

It's needed as a tourist stop over, so the still sizable black population needs to be gainfully employed.

Back to the Alice: whites are actually leaving because of the out of control crime situation there, and horrific social dysfunction with high rates of sexual abuse in dysfunctional black families.

The nation has to deal with this, we can't simply close down the Alice. It's a lovely place which should be growing, not dying.   

This voice debate is the best thing that has happened for ages; the s**t is really hitting the fan now, with the Libs in total confusion and chaos, and Labor pathetically assuming a Yes vote will somehow magically change the horrific circumstances on the ground.

I'll be giving my Labor colleagues s**t in spadefuls; as for the Noaltion, we know poverty eradication is the last thing on their platform.

Quote:
It's never going to be the answer no matter how it is disguised and vamped up and given new names.. all it is in reality is 'paying the rent' on a nation that nobody here today rents from anyone.


Enforced welfare dependency itself is a symptom  of a dysfunctional economic system.
(Unless you guarantee employment for all, then by definition the dole as a means of subsistence is in effect forced onto people who aren't employed, and can't find employment.)

Pity about that, now you have two choices: stick your head in the sand, or actually do something to achieve Price's stated platform, ie ending violence and abuse in black communities.

The question remains  - HOW will she do it?
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« Last Edit: Apr 14th, 2023 at 9:55am by thegreatdivide »  
 
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Re: the wrong referendum
Reply #85 - Apr 14th, 2023 at 6:04pm
 
Quote:
Towns like Wilcannia can't be simply abandoned.


Why not? If you had ever visited Australia, you would realise it is full of abandoned towns.
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Re: the wrong referendum
Reply #86 - Apr 14th, 2023 at 6:28pm
 
Aborigines scaring off all the Westerners - with the British leaving and the Americans leaving.
Aborigines think they got it made - getting rid of the 'invaders'.
...then the Eastern Europeans move in and its a whole new and non-political ballgame. Cheesy
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Re: the wrong referendum
Reply #87 - Apr 15th, 2023 at 6:55pm
 
philperth2010 wrote on Apr 13th, 2023 at 9:13am:
Gnads wrote on Apr 13th, 2023 at 7:11am:
philperth2010 wrote on Apr 12th, 2023 at 7:05pm:
Gnads wrote on Apr 12th, 2023 at 5:52pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Apr 12th, 2023 at 1:04pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2023 at 12:33pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Apr 12th, 2023 at 11:32am:
Gnads wrote on Apr 12th, 2023 at 11:01am:
philperth2010 wrote on Apr 9th, 2023 at 12:14pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 9th, 2023 at 11:42am:
Quote:
Why can't you spell out why it is Communism


I did. In the article. That's why you are asking the question. I'll give you a hint: the means of production are owned communally. If you want more detail, go back to the bit in the article that talks about the means of production being owned communally.

Why is this so complicated for you?


Why is it so hard to articulate your argument in a rational way....You could just copy and paste the part of the article that supports your argument....I fail to see what is communist about giving people a Voice???

Huh Huh Huh


They already have more than enough "voices" .....

what part of that escapes you?

Why should one racial group be entitled to an ear directly to the Govt and all other groups not?

And why should that racial difference be recognised in the Constitution which already represents all Australians.

We live in a Representative Democracy ... and Aboriginals are already well represented.

Anyone who says they are not is a delusional liar.



How many remote Aboriginal communities have Government Representatives....How many remote Aboriginal communities have health care or education....How many remote Aboriginal communities have employment opportunities....The Mabo and Wik decisions gave Land Rights and Native Title to Aboriginal people as long as they maintain a physical and spiritual connection to their traditional lands....This is causing a problem when the services are not delivered and Aboriginal people remain on there traditional lands or lose them....The Voice will give these communities the chance to have positive input and make decisions concerning there own lives and needs....The current model is failing and remote Aboriginal people are not heard or considered by Government decision makers who do nothing to support these communities....The Voice will at least give the Government some input that is sadly lacking!!!

Huh Huh Huh 

Aborigines are given BILLIONS to deliver services to other Aborigines?
Why don't they?


They do to some extent however it is not working is it....The Voice will allow these services to be delivered to communities with there involvement....Local communities will advise the Voice Committee about what services are required and how they can be delivered....The Government of the day will consider these proposals and either accept or reject them if they are not sound....I would put education and health as the top priority!!!

Huh Huh Huh




And you know this how?

FMD you're just another deluded guilt ridden softcock SJW.

There is no need to amend the constitution to give programs & assistance to remote communities.

It's a total load of bollocks.... a racially divisive idea swallowed by wankers like you.


Go away troll....You provide nothing meaningful to any debate....I am no longer lowering myself to your level....I have made my point!!!

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


You have no point

just a Google copy & paste half baked woke wanker


As opposed to you contributing nothing but abuse and bullshit....Posting links to support my argument is not woke it is trying to have a debate on the issues....You and Freediver have nothing but your pathetic opinions based on your racist right wing bullshit....You are nothing but a pathetic troll who only contributes abuse to any debate....Grow up!!!

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



You'd should be the last one here to whinge about abuse .... DH. Roll Eyes
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Re: the wrong referendum
Reply #88 - Apr 15th, 2023 at 7:15pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 13th, 2023 at 9:50am:
Gnads wrote on Apr 13th, 2023 at 7:17am:
That's you in a nutshell ... you have no idea about certain peoples mindset......


Ok, lets see what you got.... [but note: the Alice Springs Police Commissioner himself recently said the problem of crime in the Alice is related to welfare dependency: and kids are too scared to go home at night for fear of abuse by dysfunctional drunken adults].

Quote:
especially that of generational & in some cases career welfare recipients. They do not possess a work ethic & that's something that is growing across generations.


Well... so you now agree; generational welfare dependency is a problem, though I see you are still persisting with your ignorance that people choose it ("career welfare recipients"). 

But people only "choose it" because they can, in the absence of alternative employment opportunities.

Hence the need for a JG, to eliminate the possibility of that choice.

1+ 1 = 2   

Quote:
I don't know who your Prof. Tcherneva is but I'd suggest they, if of a similar mindset to you that you'd better get your "voices" to Parliament & get this situation sorted once & for all ......


She is a post Keynesian economist, repudiating the  current mainstream neoclassical orthodoxy responsible for the current economic dysfunction in the world.

Quote:
especially as you & he/she think you have all the answers & are so much more intelligent than all those who have gone before you ...politicians, professional bureaucrats, social scientists, academics etc etc whose joint efforts over 60 years have yet to solve the endemic problems within regional & remote Aboriginal communities..


Unfortunately the current crop of  neoclassical economists in academia are financed by wealthy corporation bosses who benefit the most from the present neoliberal market system; entrenched poverty amid soaring inequality doesn't concern them. 

Quote:
despite the 100's of billions of dollars in building infrastructure for housing, education, health & employment in those communities.


and yet welfare dependency is still 'tolerated'  - actualy enforced -  and people are living in broken hovels, with the worst health outcomes in the nation.   

Quote:
BTW the 2 nd highlight I made ... I wasn't just referring to Aboriginals .... in the main it's non Aboriginal ferals.


Indeed: welfare dependency is THE barrier to prosperity, for blacks and non-blacks; we all have to work in order to prosper.


They broke them ... & turned them into hovels.

Why because they don't know how to live in them & conduct themselves with respect & hygiene ... for something provided for them for SFA at taxpayer expense.

You know you're as bad as that ex-Labor Minister windbag Graham Richardson who went to the NT to visit remote communities ... coming back & saying Aboriginals were living in 3rd world conditions living in corrugated iron, steel framed houses on cement floors......

never asked anyone why that was so ..... it was because they lit fires inside & burnt down houses made of timber & other materials.

You can't burn down steel framed corrugated iron houses.

They also featured a community elder saying their public toilets weren't working & all this water was leaking out the back in a stream that was thick with green algae.....

never mind that the reason for that was that the toilets had been vandalised & the ceramic bowls had been kicked & smashed.....

oh dear no one had come out to fix it ey?

But the men folk in the community ... you know the Bush Mechanic types? ... of course they couldn't fix it or make repairs ....

nah ... oppressor Capt Cook whitey had to come and fix it.

Richo ... like the worthless POS he was resigned & did a political runner not much later.

That's why I always cringe when they bring that 2 faced crud on as a political commentator at election times.

You can waffle your shyte until the cows come home, or the moon turns to blue cheese but in all honesty you & your Professor girlfriend would not have a god damned clue.
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Re: the wrong referendum
Reply #89 - Apr 15th, 2023 at 7:20pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 13th, 2023 at 9:27pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 13th, 2023 at 8:41pm:
Quote:
we  saw most white people - who were mostly previously employed (not on the dole) - take  a more realistic chance of moving to another centre and rejoining the workforce, while the blacks who were more likely living on the dole tended to remain put


Do you have any evidence for this? For someone who previously thought we were in the USA, you are getting remarkably detailed.


Read the history of Wilcannia, a flourishing river town in the late 1800s. The (now closed?) PO is still a remarkable example of outback Victorian architecture, but sadly the town itself has largely  reverted to welfare- dependent poverty.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-27/future-of-wilcannias-post-office-not-in-d...



Wilcania .... another example of a place not to go to/avoid because of Aboriginal crime.
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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
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