Australian Politics Forum - real voices gagged

Captain Caveman

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Re: real voices gagged
Reply #15 - Apr 21^st, 2023 at 7:57am

I believe this is all a stepping stone to changing the constitution.
For complete control of this society, the constitution has to change, or be torn up.
Give them an inch and they'll never back off.

This corporate government isn't about an amicable outcome.
They do not listen to the people. They double down and go even harder when met with resistance.
The agenda is set and they need this voice for something.
That something is not being disclosed, and will only be disclosed once the voice is in.

I bet this goes through and the votes will be rigged for a yes.
That's why the propaganda box is playing nothing but favouritism for the yes vote, but when you actually pound the pavement and ask the real people, it's the complete opposite.

The government is not a democratic government.
It's a corporation.
Corporations do not reason with anyone for anything.
They only do what benifits them, at the cost of everyone else.

This whole voice is a con job, you watch.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 74248 Gender:	Re: real voices gagged Reply #16 - Apr 21^st, 2023 at 8:40am freediver wrote on Apr 21^st, 2023 at 7:10am: Are you trying to disagree with John? Afraid to actually say something? WTF? You're in so much of a lather that you've lost the plot completely. Are you asking me if i disagree with myself?
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 83784 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: real voices gagged Reply #17 - Apr 21^st, 2023 at 9:17am John Smith wrote on Apr 21^st, 2023 at 8:40am: freediver wrote on Apr 21^st, 2023 at 7:10am: Are you trying to disagree with John? Afraid to actually say something? WTF? You're in so much of a lather that you've lost the plot completely. Are you asking me if i disagree with myself? You usually do..................
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philperth2010

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Re: real voices gagged
Reply #18 - Apr 21^st, 2023 at 9:17am

Warren Mundine the former Chairman of Abbott government's Indigenous Advisory Council wrote the article???

Here is another take on the Voice which is not tainted by the Murdoch media!!!

Quote:

Voice to parliament: migrant and refugee groups reject ‘divisive’ no campaign proposal for constitutional recognition

Chair of body representing culturally diverse communities says Warren Mundine’s push for ‘symbolic’ recognition is a ‘red herring’

The nation’s peak body representing culturally diverse communities has criticised the voice to parliament no campaign’s push for constitutional recognition of migrants as “offensive” and “divisive”, saying they never asked for or discussed such a possibility.

Warren Mundine, a leading organiser of the no campaign, said on Sunday the campaign would propose symbolic constitutional recognition of Indigenous people and migrants through a new preamble, via another referendum. This approach was previously rejected by multiple rounds of consultation including the 2017 Uluru statement from the heart, which called for a voice to parliament.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/jan/30/voice-to-parliament-migra...

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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: real voices gagged
Reply #19 - Apr 21^st, 2023 at 9:31am

Captain Caveman wrote on Apr 21^st, 2023 at 7:57am:

I believe this is all a stepping stone to changing the constitution.
For complete control of this society, the constitution has to change, or be torn up.
Give them an inch and they'll never back off.

This corporate government isn't about an amicable outcome.
They do not listen to the people. They double down and go even harder when met with resistance.
The agenda is set and they need this voice for something.
That something is not being disclosed, and will only be disclosed once the voice is in.

I bet this goes through and the votes will be rigged for a yes.
That's why the propaganda box is playing nothing but favouritism for the yes vote, but when you actually pound the pavement and ask the real people, it's the complete opposite.

The government is not a democratic government.
It's a corporation.
Corporations do not reason with anyone for anything.
They only do what benifits them, at the cost of everyone else.

This whole voice is a con job, you watch.

Spot on. Always look for the true reason behind some agenda - qui bono? And I don't mean the short-term 'benefit' for some small and noisy group of losers.... there is always a long term goal in mind when any political movement pushes a clear agenda, and it will always be for their benefit - not yours.

What can be gained from the stabbing of this voice idea into the heart of the Constitution? That is the true question.... and not what can be gained for the Cheers etc ...

The watering down and eventual dissolution into tears of rage of the Constitution will lead us to what? The demand for a NEW Constitution... to achieve what and benefit whom?

Perhaps The Who had the answer at the back of their minds years ago when semi-formed but illuminating ideas were more the norm - it can be amazing how prophetic some of the sixties music was....

"… I'll tip my hat to the new Constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution" ....

"… Yeah
Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss".

What any movement will require out of such a change is a new dictatorship where they will be the ruling elite and the rest will obey or be punished. Why, you ask? Well - because they always know better than you do what's best for you! Don't you know that, you silly peasant?

Within every politician resides the spirit of a true despot...... within every person of the people is a tyrant struggling to get out.... look at any movement - say the 'queer' - always demanding the incredible - "Should the phones of anti-trans people be tapped and recorded?" "Should the voting rights of transphobes be removed?"

Or an Albaneser ...."Should anyone who oppose changes to their Constitution be put on public trial and condemned out of hand as racists and bigots, and thus become fair game for assault and abuse? Maybe they should have their voting rights curtailed and be turned into second class citizens!!"

Is this what you expect in a 'prime minister' and his mad party paid out of the fattest in the land? Is there a single sane voice left in Labor?

As in - WTF???

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Captain Caveman

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Re: real voices gagged
Reply #20 - Apr 21^st, 2023 at 9:41am

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 21^st, 2023 at 9:31am:

Captain Caveman wrote on Apr 21^st, 2023 at 7:57am:

I believe this is all a stepping stone to changing the constitution.
For complete control of this society, the constitution has to change, or be torn up.
Give them an inch and they'll never back off.

This corporate government isn't about an amicable outcome.
They do not listen to the people. They double down and go even harder when met with resistance.
The agenda is set and they need this voice for something.
That something is not being disclosed, and will only be disclosed once the voice is in.

I bet this goes through and the votes will be rigged for a yes.
That's why the propaganda box is playing nothing but favouritism for the yes vote, but when you actually pound the pavement and ask the real people, it's the complete opposite.

The government is not a democratic government.
It's a corporation.
Corporations do not reason with anyone for anything.
They only do what benifits them, at the cost of everyone else.

This whole voice is a con job, you watch.

Spot on. Always look for the true reason behind some agenda - qui bono? And I don't mean the short-term 'benefit' for some small and noisy group of losers.... there is always a long term goal in mind when any political movement pushes a clear agenda, and it will always be for their benefit - not yours.

What can be gained from the stabbing of this voice idea into the heart of the Constitution? That is the true question.... and not what can be gained for the Cheers etc ...

The watering down and eventual dissolution into tears of rage of the Constitution will lead us to what? The demand for a NEW Constitution... to achieve what and benefit whom?

Perhaps The Who had the answer at the back of their minds years ago when semi-formed but illuminating ideas were more the norm - it can be amazing how prophetic some of the sixties music was....

"… I'll tip my hat to the new Constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution" ....

"… Yeah
Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss".

What any movement will require out of such a change is a new dictatorship where they will be the ruling elite and the rest will obey or be punished. Why, you ask? Well - because they always know better than you do what's best for you! Don't you know that, you silly peasant?

Within every politician resides the spirit of a true despot...... within every person of the people is a tyrant struggling to get out.... look at any movement - say the 'queer' - always demanding the incredible - "Should the phones of anti-trans people be tapped and recorded?" "Should the voting rights of transphobes be removed?"

Or an Albaneser ...."Should anyone who oppose changes to their Constitution be put on public trial and condemned out of hand as racists and bigots, and thus become fair game for assault and abuse? Maybe they should have their voting rights curtailed and be turned into second class citizens!!"

Is this what you expect in a 'prime minister' and his mad party paid out of the fattest in the land? Is there a single sane voice left in Labor?

As in - WTF???

Agree.

The Chinese North korean social credit system has been alive in this country for nearly 20yrs.
Were just to stupid to see it.
But being a higher earning tax payer, I can assure you that it does exist.
Every social media platform has a cia operative at the top.
They've been profiling morons for the last 15 to 20yrs.
You can be made out to be anyone they want you to be
They own the media, so they own people's opinions.
It's all golden unicorn farts and rainbows for any agenda set by the corporations.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: real voices gagged
Reply #21 - Apr 21^st, 2023 at 9:43am

I can't agree that 'recognition' as first settlers and installation in the constitution with special voting rights for their own exclusively and special right to impose their views on governments are even remotely the same thing.

If I buy a house or a used car or a used 50 foot sailboat - it is always acknowledged - and it's there on the documents - that the PREVIOUS owner was there first...... so what? At the moment of transfer the rights of the previous owner to ALL ownership pass to me.

That makes it pretty simple, eh?

There is no turning back to the Indigenous colonialist imperialist style of 'ownership' pre-1788. NOBODY these days can claim ownership of lands held in the past by force of arms or even by the lack of other people in it apart from some small wandering group across thousands of square miles. The Belgians etc cannot go back to The Congo and claim it back.... there are European nations that today cannot claim back pieces of their country lost over the years... such as Alsace and Lorraine. The Argentines can't claim The Falklands even though they may have been there before the British. The Chinese cannot claim the South China Sea and all in it even though they may have moved across it millennia ago like some Abo group wandering across a swathe of land covering thousands of square miles ....... the British can't claim back their Empire.... (hello, turkeys)...

Times Have Changed! It's time legislators, courts and various tribunals got that idea into their heads and changed with them.

No More Land Claims! No More Special Rights!

It's 2023 - not 03 AD.

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« Last Edit: Apr 21^st, 2023 at 9:55am by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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philperth2010

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Re: real voices gagged
Reply #22 - Apr 21^st, 2023 at 10:23am

Native Title has already been recognised in Australian law by the High Court....The voice will make no difference to what is already ensrined in Australian law!!!

Quote:

The High Court of Australia has already ruled Native Title is recognised in Australian law

The judgements of the High Court in Mabo overturned the legal fiction of terra nullius (land belonging to no one), and acknowledged that Indigenous people have lived in Australia for many thousands of years and enjoyed rights to their land according to their own laws and customs. The Court found that those rights survived colonisation, and they are now recognised and protected by the Australian legal system.

The NTA was passed in 1993. It established a process for claiming and recognising native title lands and waters in Australia. The NTA aims to balance Indigenous and non-Indigenous peoples’ rights to land, and sets out how native title rights and interests fit within Australian law.

https://nativetitle.org.au/learn/native-title-and-pbcs/native-title-rights-and-i...

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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: real voices gagged
Reply #23 - Apr 21^st, 2023 at 11:26am

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 21^st, 2023 at 10:23am:

Native Title has already been recognised in Australian law by the High Court....The voice will make no difference to what is already ensrined in Australian law!!!

Quote:

The High Court of Australia has already ruled Native Title is recognised in Australian law

The judgements of the High Court in Mabo overturned the legal fiction of terra nullius (land belonging to no one), and acknowledged that Indigenous people have lived in Australia for many thousands of years and enjoyed rights to their land according to their own laws and customs. The Court found that those rights survived colonisation, and they are now recognised and protected by the Australian legal system.

The NTA was passed in 1993. It established a process for claiming and recognising native title lands and waters in Australia. The NTA aims to balance Indigenous and non-Indigenous peoples’ rights to land, and sets out how native title rights and interests fit within Australian law.

https://nativetitle.org.au/learn/native-title-and-pbcs/native-title-rights-and-i...

A mistake made once can always be set right...... we can all see now how that 'balance' is working out, eh?

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: real voices gagged
Reply #24 - Apr 21^st, 2023 at 4:12pm

"The judgements of the High Court in Mabo overturned the legal fiction of terra nullius (land belonging to no one), and acknowledged that Indigenous people have lived in Australia for many thousands of years and enjoyed rights to their land according to their own laws and customs. The Court found that those rights survived colonisation, and they are now recognised and protected by the Australian legal system."

And there are your problems in a capsule form...

Mabo already has acknowledged that Indigenous people have lived here etc.. no further acknowledgement is required, so that's out of any referendum.

There is a problem with 'according to their own laws and customs' - those laws and customs of conquest and colonisation by force or arms are no longer accepted throughout the world as the way to grab property - not to mention that such a retention of squatted land, as it then was under that massive change of worldwide rules, demanded unbroken possession and an utter lack of conflict with others who have purchased etc.

Yet we have demands for the settled coast of NSW and even the entire Perth CBD, long settled and legitimately owned areas.

Those 'rights' could not 'survive colonisation', since they were overtaken - as surely as colonisation was - by a totally different set of rules that demanded a different proof of ownership. NO former ownership by conquest and simply settling exists now other than in primitive countries, and even those who settled by squatting on original large plots of land here in Australia post 1788 had to pay to retain possession of their land.

Squatting alone is not sufficient reason to demand possession of land any more, and clearly the court was wrong (again), and the legal system has been wrongfully employed in promoting privileges for one small group over all others, which shows clearly how fatally flawed is both our system of law here in this poor colony - my country - and its political stewardship.

Put simply - for too long the courts and governments have run their own race here without proper consideration of the people and their rights and especially their right to be treated equally under the law. The exercise of law must abide by its own rules, especially in providing equal treatment which also means not permitting wallet lawfare**, or it becomes nothing more than despotism - which it clearly is to anyone who has ever been entangled in it.

**no person should be denied justice and fair play because they have a thin wallet and their assailant has a fat one.... equal treatment must prevail... therefore simple matters of defamation should apply to all and be handled at the cost of a $25 application fee with a legal requirement of truth and not twists and turns, so as to ensure that poor people have the right to not be defamed and libeled by fat cats such as the media.

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« Last Edit: Apr 21^st, 2023 at 10:32pm by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 74248 Gender:	Re: real voices gagged Reply #25 - Apr 21^st, 2023 at 6:08pm Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 21^st, 2023 at 11:26am: A mistake made once can always be set right.. I doubt it, once you were born we were stuck with you
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Gnads Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 29282 Gender:	Re: real voices gagged Reply #26 - Apr 21^st, 2023 at 7:43pm John Smith wrote on Apr 21^st, 2023 at 6:08pm: Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 21^st, 2023 at 11:26am: A mistake made once can always be set right.. I doubt it, once you were born we were stuck with you Ditto for you 'tard.
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freediver

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Re: real voices gagged
Reply #27 - Apr 21^st, 2023 at 8:27pm

John Smith wrote on Apr 21^st, 2023 at 8:40am:

freediver wrote on Apr 21^st, 2023 at 7:10am:

Are you trying to disagree with John? Afraid to actually say something?

WTF? You're in so much of a lather that you've lost the plot completely. Are you asking me if i disagree with myself? Cheesy

Are you trying to disagree with me, John?

Or are you afraid to actually say something?

John Smith wrote on Apr 21^st, 2023 at 7:06am:

freediver wrote on Apr 15^th, 2023 at 1:07pm:

You are confused JC. The "voice" is the opposite of democracy.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Karnal

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Re: real voices gagged
Reply #28 - Apr 21^st, 2023 at 10:25pm

freediver wrote on Apr 15^th, 2023 at 1:07pm:

JC Denton wrote on Apr 15^th, 2023 at 12:20pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 15^th, 2023 at 12:15pm:

JC, would you be happy for one "voice" to represent you and all other white people to government on account of you all speaking the same language and having the same skin colour?

that is what we already have though

"we" are represented by members of overwhelmingly two political parties, that all support the same poo and do the exact same poo

im not happy about it but that's how f@ggot democracy works, why should the voice be any different

You are confused JC. The "voice" is the opposite of democracy. The only democratic bit is the initial change to the constitution. After that it will be a government-appointed dictatorship.

Do you prefer dictatorship to democracy?

The Governor General is the supreme voice of all Australians, FD. He reports to the King.

Does he represent your voice?

I'm curious.

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John Smith

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Re: real voices gagged
Reply #29 - Apr 21^st, 2023 at 10:26pm

freediver wrote on Apr 21^st, 2023 at 8:27pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 21^st, 2023 at 8:40am:

freediver wrote on Apr 21^st, 2023 at 7:10am:

Are you trying to disagree with John? Afraid to actually say something?

WTF? You're in so much of a lather that you've lost the plot completely. Are you asking me if i disagree with myself? Cheesy

Are you trying to disagree with me, John?

Or are you afraid to actually say something?

John Smith wrote on Apr 21^st, 2023 at 7:06am:

freediver wrote on Apr 15^th, 2023 at 1:07pm:

You are confused JC. The "voice" is the opposite of democracy.

No, I'm laughing AT you fd. I thought that was obvious Roll Eyes

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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