Australian Politics Forum - Alice is finished.

Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Alice is finished.
Reply #75 - May 14^th, 2023 at 1:24pm

"Alice is finished.

"Over 80 per cent of people said they currently do not feel safe, with over 60 per cent of people saying that they are considering leaving the Northern Territory, due to the crime."

And you are complicit in the cause of the problem in the Alice, namely, the neoliberal economy's failure to provide above-poverty jobs for all."

What an absolutely astounding accusation and nonsense to throw into discussion of simple law and order - and talk about trying to shift the blame from those actually responsible onto some way-out idea, then trying to shuffle it onto the individual who raises the problem for discussion and who has no control over that idea at all.

Clearly you are quite mad, dividie.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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UnSubRocky Gold Member Offline Crocodile Hunter: Origins Posts: 24940 Rockhampton Gender:	Re: Alice is finished. Reply #76 - May 14^th, 2023 at 4:32pm I want to know why divider thinks Australians are happy forking out a high cost of living to pay taxes towards indigenous programs.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Alice is finished.
Reply #77 - May 14^th, 2023 at 6:54pm

UnSubRocky wrote on May 14^th, 2023 at 4:32pm:

I want to know why divider thinks Australians are happy forking out a high cost of living to pay taxes towards indigenous programs.

Is that on top of the extra $100m a day already passing through?

You just can't train an ideologue to look at hard facts and simple realities.... and don't forget - YOU are to blame for the problem of unemployment.... you'd swear he was talking to the self-appointed lords and masters of Australia with their shenanigans rather than the people who know it all already and have taken it in the nose for decades now.

You're complicit! Because unlike him you don't post about it online while doing nothing in real life but trying to find blame for individuals over policies they have no control over.

He must be locked in a mental asylum, I think.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Alice is finished.
Reply #78 - May 14^th, 2023 at 7:19pm

UnSubRocky wrote on May 14^th, 2023 at 4:32pm:

I want to know why divider thinks Australians are happy forking out a high cost of living to pay taxes towards indigenous programs.

Australians aren't happy supporting the poverty industry, but they don't recognize that's what current indigenous programs are, while social dysfunction renders such programs ineffective.

OTOH they do support an increase in Job Seeker; again not understanding that 'welfare' - poverty-level 'sit down money' - is also a disaster for individual morale.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Alice is finished.
Reply #79 - May 14^th, 2023 at 7:35pm

The stolen generation ones don't seem to have a problem with social dysfunction.... nor do those who had non-dysfunctional parenting even when living in Aboriginal towns and missions...

I looked for figures for future success from the children removed from poor homes in recent years ... njothing but the usual blurb about the poor old victim Aborigine - you can bet your last dollar that won't be easy to find - if at all.

Nothing can be permitted to go against the popular fictional narrative that the Aborigines are total victims and have no other recourse than their savage social dysfunction and whitey must step in and somehow compel them to take all the right steps and make all the right moves.

Good luck..... a Homeland would be far easier.... and cheaper in the long run.

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« Last Edit: May 14^th, 2023 at 7:42pm by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 84447 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: Alice is finished. Reply #80 - May 14^th, 2023 at 7:37pm https://www.heraldsun.com.au/entertainment/television/ray-martin-tells-how-he-es...
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Jasin Gold Member Online Posts: 48125 Gender:	Re: Alice is finished. Reply #81 - May 14^th, 2023 at 7:52pm Well that goes to show that its Alcohol and Drugs that cause the problems - not being a 40,000 to 100,000 year old culture of Aboriginalism. Alcohol and drugs can turn any race into 'orcish' behaviour.
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Alice is finished.
Reply #82 - May 14^th, 2023 at 8:01pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 14^th, 2023 at 7:35pm:

The stolen generation ones don't seem to have a problem with social dysfunction.... nor do those who had non-dysfunctional parenting even when living in Aboriginal towns and missions...

Yes. Indeed "protection" - though considered misplaced today - produced good results in some cases; but the pain of separation from siblings and parents is an ongoing trauma. Obviously, transitioning a h-g people into a modern economy is difficult.

Quote:

Nothing can be permitted to go against the popular fictional narrative that the Aborigines are total victims and have no other recourse than their savage social dysfunction and whitey must step in and somehow compel them to take all the right steps and make all the right moves.

Unfotunately your ideas on 'personal responsibility' - within the context of a dysfunctional (ie because it fails the needs of the least competitive) NAIRU neoliberal economy - are inadequate for successful transition from hunter-gatherer to money-wage economy.

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Good luck..... a Homeland would be far easier.... and cheaper in the long run.

There is no long run, we have run out of time and must close the gap now, and apartheid is not an option for a competent government.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Alice is finished.
Reply #83 - May 14^th, 2023 at 8:17pm

thegreatdivide wrote on May 14^th, 2023 at 8:01pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 14^th, 2023 at 7:35pm:

The stolen generation ones don't seem to have a problem with social dysfunction.... nor do those who had non-dysfunctional parenting even when living in Aboriginal towns and missions...

Yes. Indeed "protection" - though considered misplaced today - produced good results in some cases; but the pain of separation from siblings and parents is an ongoing trauma.

Two separate issues, much the same as 'recognition' and some 'voice'

Obviously, transitioning a h-g people into a modern economy is difficult.

Quote:

Nothing can be permitted to go against the popular fictional narrative that the Aborigines are total victims and have no other recourse than their savage social dysfunction and whitey must step in and somehow compel them to take all the right steps and make all the right moves.

Unfotunately your ideas on 'personal responsibility' - within the context of a dysfunctional (ie because it fails the needs of the least competitive) NAIRU neoliberal economy - are inadequate for successful transition from hunter-gatherer to money-wage economy.

There you go again. These are not 'my ideas' in that context - but it IS the responsibility of each individual to co-operate in their own salvation - and the refusal of a group to do that is their own responsibility - nothing to do with neoliberal economy. It is a PERSONAL decision.

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Good luck..... a Homeland would be far easier.... and cheaper in the long run.

There is no long run, we have run out of time and must close the gap now, and apartheid is not an option for a competent government.

When you can get the Indigenous to co-operate - then get going on closing your gaps - and certainly the form of Apartheid inherent in the current absurd 'voice' idea is not acceptable to anyone real. The point you evade over and over is that it is the indigenous activists who demand things their way etc - so they would be best suited to having their wish granted and be given a Homeland... their demand, not mine.... I'm just being generous and offering.. but as only 3.8% of the population they cannot take possession under any circumstances of more than 3.8% of the landmass...... the day of Aboriginal Imperialism are long gone....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Brian Ross Gold Member Online Representative of me Posts: 41799	Re: Alice is finished. Reply #84 - May 14^th, 2023 at 8:56pm Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 14^th, 2023 at 7:37pm: https://www.heraldsun.com.au/entertainment/television/ray-martin-tells-how-he-es... An article from 2009? Oh, dearie, dearie, me, is that the best you can do, old man? Tsk, tsk, tsk...
Back to top	Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... IP Logged

Jasin Gold Member Online Posts: 48125 Gender:	Re: Alice is finished. Reply #85 - May 14^th, 2023 at 8:58pm He does a lot better than you can Bwyon
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UnSubRocky

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Re: Alice is finished.
Reply #86 - May 14^th, 2023 at 9:57pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 14^th, 2023 at 8:56pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 14^th, 2023 at 7:37pm:

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/entertainment/television/ray-martin-tells-how-he-es...

An article from 2009? Oh, dearie, dearie, me, is that the best you can do, old man? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

The article is still relevant, unless superseded by updated information Ray Martin has made at a later date.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Alice is finished.
Reply #87 - May 15^th, 2023 at 12:16am

Brian Ross wrote on May 14^th, 2023 at 8:56pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 14^th, 2023 at 7:37pm:

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/entertainment/television/ray-martin-tells-how-he-es...

An article from 2009? Oh, dearie, dearie, me, is that the best you can do, old man? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

What does it matter the year? Has the story changed at all? You can do better than that, old fellah.... Tsk, tsk, tsk Grin

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Alice is finished.
Reply #88 - May 15^th, 2023 at 2:33pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 14^th, 2023 at 8:17pm:

Two separate issues, much the same as 'recognition' and some 'voice'

separate issues? Obviously, transitioning a h-g people into a modern economy is difficult; and mistakes were made along the way.

Quote:

There you go again. These are not 'my ideas' in that context - but it IS the responsibility of each individual to co-operate in their own salvation - and the refusal of a group to do that is their own responsibility - nothing to do with neoliberal economy. It is a PERSONAL decision.

That's just your inability to see the negative effects of systemic macro-economic failings on individuals.
The transition from sheltered workshops to the outside economy needs careful management.

Quote:

When you can get the Indigenous to co-operate - then get going on closing your gaps -

Addressed above, re the necessary governement management during the transition from sheltered workshop and mission life, to life in the general Oz community.

Quote:

and certainly the form of Apartheid inherent in the current absurd 'voice' idea is not acceptable to anyone real.

..an interesting twist on the meaning of 'apartheid, but yes, a constitutional voice does divide the population on cultural/race grounds, wheras the real ongoing divsion is based on economic inequality.

Quote:

The point you evade over and over is that it is the indigenous activists who demand things their way etc - so they would be best suited to having their wish granted and be given a Homeland...

No, I'm not evading it; I am not a cultural warrior, but an economic warrior.

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thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 12916 Gender:	Re: Alice is finished. Reply #89 - May 15^th, 2023 at 2:44pm Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 14^th, 2023 at 7:37pm: https://www.heraldsun.com.au/entertainment/television/ray-martin-tells-how-he-es... Sorry....now I can't connect the dots. What has Ray Martin's experience of a drunken brute for a father, got to do with generational dysfunction among aboriginals?
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