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People are still dying of Covid19 in Australia (Read 38132 times)
aquascoot
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Re: People are still dying of Covid19 in Australia
Reply #645 - May 22nd, 2024 at 5:29pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 3:59pm:
ShellShilo wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 3:17pm:
What about the people who ARE wearing masked, and HAVE been vaccinated? Why ARE these people STILL being infected and dying from this flu-virus? 


Masks and vaccinations have proven to be quite effective, but not 100% effective.

Moreover, COVID is not the flu.




no , its now milder then the flu which is why everyone except carl is not concerned
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greggerypeccary
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Re: People are still dying of Covid19 in Australia
Reply #646 - May 22nd, 2024 at 5:34pm
 
aquascoot wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 5:29pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 3:59pm:
ShellShilo wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 3:17pm:
What about the people who ARE wearing masked, and HAVE been vaccinated? Why ARE these people STILL being infected and dying from this flu-virus? 


Masks and vaccinations have proven to be quite effective, but not 100% effective.

Moreover, COVID is not the flu.




no , its now milder then the flu which is why everyone except carl is not concerned


Your record of being wrong 100% of the time is still intact.

"Compared with flu, COVID-19 can cause more severe illness in some people. Compared to people with flu, people infected with COVID-19 may take longer to show symptoms and may be contagious for longer periods of time." 20 Mar 2024
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greggerypeccary
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Re: People are still dying of Covid19 in Australia
Reply #647 - May 22nd, 2024 at 5:43pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 5:34pm:
aquascoot wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 5:29pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 3:59pm:
ShellShilo wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 3:17pm:
What about the people who ARE wearing masked, and HAVE been vaccinated? Why ARE these people STILL being infected and dying from this flu-virus? 


Masks and vaccinations have proven to be quite effective, but not 100% effective.

Moreover, COVID is not the flu.




no , its now milder then the flu which is why everyone except carl is not concerned


Your record of being wrong 100% of the time is still intact.

"Compared with flu, COVID-19 can cause more severe illness in some people. Compared to people with flu, people infected with COVID-19 may take longer to show symptoms and may be contagious for longer periods of time." 20 Mar 2024


May 15, 2024:

Patients hospitalized with COVID-19 were more likely to die than those hospitalized with influenza during the fall and winter of 2023-2024, according to an analysis of Veterans Affairs data.

Among over 11,000 patients hospitalized for either illness during this past fall and winter, 5.7% of patients with COVID-19 died within 30 days of admission versus 4.24% of patients with influenza, reported Ziyad Al-Aly, MD, of the VA St. Louis Health Care System, and colleagues.

After adjusting for variables, the risk of death in people hospitalized for COVID-19 was 35% higher (adjusted HR 1.35, 95% CI 1.10-1.66), the authors detailed in a research letter in JAMA
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aquascoot
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Re: People are still dying of Covid19 in Australia
Reply #648 - May 22nd, 2024 at 5:57pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 5:43pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 5:34pm:
aquascoot wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 5:29pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 3:59pm:
ShellShilo wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 3:17pm:
What about the people who ARE wearing masked, and HAVE been vaccinated? Why ARE these people STILL being infected and dying from this flu-virus? 


Masks and vaccinations have proven to be quite effective, but not 100% effective.

Moreover, COVID is not the flu.




no , its now milder then the flu which is why everyone except carl is not concerned


Your record of being wrong 100% of the time is still intact.

"Compared with flu, COVID-19 can cause more severe illness in some people. Compared to people with flu, people infected with COVID-19 may take longer to show symptoms and may be contagious for longer periods of time." 20 Mar 2024


May 15, 2024:

Patients hospitalized with COVID-19 were more likely to die than those hospitalized with influenza during the fall and winter of 2023-2024, according to an analysis of Veterans Affairs data.

Among over 11,000 patients hospitalized for either illness during this past fall and winter, 5.7% of patients with COVID-19 died within 30 days of admission versus 4.24% of patients with influenza, reported Ziyad Al-Aly, MD, of the VA St. Louis Health Care System, and colleagues.

After adjusting for variables, the risk of death in people hospitalized for COVID-19 was 35% higher (adjusted HR 1.35, 95% CI 1.10-1.66), the authors detailed in a research letter in JAMA


these data are corrupted as the drug companies make a fortune off anti covid drugs and nothing off anti influenza drugs.
hence they corrupt the researchers.

who pays the piper calls the tune Roll Eyes

ask any none who has had covid recently how it was


"sore throat, sniffles and tired for 48 hrs"

a mild respiratory virus  Wink
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greggerypeccary
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Re: People are still dying of Covid19 in Australia
Reply #649 - May 22nd, 2024 at 6:42pm
 
aquascoot wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 5:57pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 5:43pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 5:34pm:
aquascoot wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 5:29pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 3:59pm:
ShellShilo wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 3:17pm:
What about the people who ARE wearing masked, and HAVE been vaccinated? Why ARE these people STILL being infected and dying from this flu-virus? 


Masks and vaccinations have proven to be quite effective, but not 100% effective.

Moreover, COVID is not the flu.




no , its now milder then the flu which is why everyone except carl is not concerned


Your record of being wrong 100% of the time is still intact.

"Compared with flu, COVID-19 can cause more severe illness in some people. Compared to people with flu, people infected with COVID-19 may take longer to show symptoms and may be contagious for longer periods of time." 20 Mar 2024


May 15, 2024:

Patients hospitalized with COVID-19 were more likely to die than those hospitalized with influenza during the fall and winter of 2023-2024, according to an analysis of Veterans Affairs data.

Among over 11,000 patients hospitalized for either illness during this past fall and winter, 5.7% of patients with COVID-19 died within 30 days of admission versus 4.24% of patients with influenza, reported Ziyad Al-Aly, MD, of the VA St. Louis Health Care System, and colleagues.

After adjusting for variables, the risk of death in people hospitalized for COVID-19 was 35% higher (adjusted HR 1.35, 95% CI 1.10-1.66), the authors detailed in a research letter in JAMA


these data are corrupted ...



You have proof of this, or is that just some bullshit you've spun in order to cover your mistake?

I'm more than willing to look at the proof.

Are you willing to provide it?

I'm curious.

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ShellShilo
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Re: People are still dying of Covid19 in Australia
Reply #650 - May 22nd, 2024 at 9:29pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 3:59pm:
ShellShilo wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 3:17pm:
What about the people who ARE wearing masked, and HAVE been vaccinated? Why ARE these people STILL being infected and dying from this flu-virus? 


Masks and vaccinations have proven to be quite effective, but not 100% effective.

Moreover, COVID is not the flu.



Even masks that are rated 95% protection from air antigens as small as 0.3 microns, are not very effective against the SARS-CoV-2 virus(0.1 microns). To be effective against this virus, the ratings would need to be 99.9999% protective. And, the pore size would need to be 3 times smaller.

Even if the masks don't fully shield us, they just might help us from receiving the infective dose. It only takes a few hunred viruses to get through to infect you. I'm sure you are already aware of all the other problems wearing masks(eating, drinking,  sleeping, etc).

Remember, the industry most infected by this virus was the medical industry. If their safety protocols weren't working for them, why would we think they would work for us?

But again, we are talking about a FLU-LIKE virus, with a case fatality rate less than that of the measles.  Any normal immune system is more than capable of dealing with this virus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_disease_case_fatality_rates

They only thing that we have done by vaccinating and masking over 90% of the population(Australian), is create a population where more masked and vaccinated people are now being infected and dying from this virus. That's it!

It is mindless arrogance and igborance, to think that man can stop a virus from infecting him. But, if you really want to feel fully protected, buy a completely self-contained Hazmat suit, with an unlimited supply of CO2 scrubbers, and start living at the bottom of your swimming pool. And even this isn't 100% fulllproof.



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Carl D
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Re: People are still dying of Covid19 in Australia
Reply #651 - May 22nd, 2024 at 10:07pm
 
ShellShilo wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 9:29pm:
Even masks that are rated 95% protection from air antigens as small as 0.3 microns, are not very effective against the SARS-CoV-2 virus(0.1 microns). To be effective against this virus, the ratings would need to be 99.9999% protective. And, the pore size would need to be 3 times smaller.


That's why you need to wear high quality masks and not 'baggy blue' surgical masks (although 'baggy blues' are better than nothing).

And, yes - a 0.1 micron virus can easily pass through a 0.3 micron hole in a mask assuming the virus particle(s) have a direct, unobstructed path through the mask, which they don't.

Multiple layers and fibres, plus the fact that the fibres in high quality masks are also 'electrically charged' make it almost impossible for virus particles to find their way through one of these masks - assuming they're fitted and worn properly.

The Physics of the N95 Face Mask

Quote:
The fibers in regular cloth or paper face masks filter out particles by physically blocking them—but the fibers in an N95 mask also use a great physics trick. These fibers are electrically charged.



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** Repeat Covid infections exercise our immune system in the same way that repeat concussions exercise our brain **
 
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Carl D
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Re: People are still dying of Covid19 in Australia
Reply #652 - May 23rd, 2024 at 1:07am
 
aquascoot wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 5:29pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 3:59pm:
ShellShilo wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 3:17pm:
What about the people who ARE wearing masked, and HAVE been vaccinated? Why ARE these people STILL being infected and dying from this flu-virus? 


Masks and vaccinations have proven to be quite effective, but not 100% effective.

Moreover, COVID is not the flu.




no , its now milder then the flu which is why everyone except carl is not concerned


Au contraire.

(Almost) everyone is not concerned nowadays because they have been led to believe Covid is now milder than the flu.

Which it isn't, of course.

It started with that doctor in South Africa saying in late 2021 that "Omicron is mild".

Which it wasn't. And still isn't, although I'm pretty sure the original Omicron isn't around anymore - it's been replaced with 'new and improved' vaccine and prior infection temporary immunity variants.

Honestly. I've lost count of how many times I've tried to explain this to you (and others here) in the past.
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« Last Edit: May 23rd, 2024 at 1:12am by Carl D »  

** Repeat Covid infections exercise our immune system in the same way that repeat concussions exercise our brain **
 
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ShellShilo
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Re: People are still dying of Covid19 in Australia
Reply #653 - May 23rd, 2024 at 3:59pm
 
Carl D wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 10:07pm:
ShellShilo wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 9:29pm:
Even masks that are rated 95% protection from air antigens as small as 0.3 microns, are not very effective against the SARS-CoV-2 virus(0.1 microns). To be effective against this virus, the ratings would need to be 99.9999% protective. And, the pore size would need to be 3 times smaller.


That's why you need to wear high quality masks and not 'baggy blue' surgical masks (although 'baggy blues' are better than nothing).

And, yes - a 0.1 micron virus can easily pass through a 0.3 micron hole in a mask assuming the virus particle(s) have a direct, unobstructed path through the mask, which they don't.

Multiple layers and fibres, plus the fact that the fibres in high quality masks are also 'electrically charged' make it almost impossible for virus particles to find their way through one of these masks - assuming they're fitted and worn properly.

The Physics of the N95 Face Mask

Quote:
The fibers in regular cloth or paper face masks filter out particles by physically blocking them—but the fibers in an N95 mask also use a great physics trick. These fibers are electrically charged.





I don't think most folks plan on living their entire life wearing a mask. Any masks designed to fit all, will fit no one  perfectly. At some point in time your masks will have to come off(eating, drinking, exercising, etc.). How are you still protected?

I think we've forgotten that we do have a very evolved immune system. It's job is to produce antibodies to protect us from any/all antigens/pathogens. Even from pathogens anywhere in the entire universe. At a 99.9% survival rate(vaccinated or not) it is doing its job well.

All vaccines need a normal functioning immune system to work. But the immune system does NOT need any vaccines to work!

Remember, we are talking about a pathogen smaller than the visable spectrum of light. In other words, if you can shine a light through a mask, then a virus can also pass through.

As I've said before, you would need a mask that is 99.99999% effective against pathogens smaller than 0.2 microns. The best masks(not shields) is only 95% effective against these tiny pathogens. And, 5% of a million pathogens is more than the few hundred needed to infect you.

Carl D wrote on May 23rd, 2024 at 1:07am:
Au contraire.

(Almost) everyone is not concerned nowadays because they have been led to believe Covid is now milder than the flu.

Which it isn't, of course.

It started with that doctor in South Africa saying in late 2021 that "Omicron is mild".

Which it wasn't. And still isn't, although I'm pretty sure the original Omicron isn't around anymore - it's been replaced with 'new and improved' vaccine and prior infection temporary immunity variants.

Honestly. I've lost count of how many times I've tried to explain this to you (and others here) in the past.


Is it even possible that you could be wrong? Even a year before vaccines were available, over 95% of covid-19 victims had zero to moderate symptoms and fully recovered. This is still true today, vaccinated or not.

I stated in early 2021 that the virus doesn't care if you're vaccinated or wearing masks. It can still infect you. And, that vaccinating everyone would only increase the number of vaccinated people becoming infected and dying. And, that's exactly what happened! 
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« Last Edit: May 23rd, 2024 at 9:22pm by ShellShilo »  
 
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Carl D
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Re: People are still dying of Covid19 in Australia
Reply #654 - May 24th, 2024 at 10:12am
 
Quote:
Is it even possible that you could be wrong? Even a year before vaccines were available, over 95% of covid-19 victims had zero to moderate symptoms and fully recovered. This is still true today, vaccinated or not.


https://x.com/michael_hoerger/status/1737582325779624059

Mike Hoerger, PhD MSCR MBA
@michael_hoerger
Director of the top public U.S. #COVID forecasting dashboard (PMC).

#HealthPsych PhD Program Director, #CovidCancer scientist, over 100 science publications.


Quote:
As a clinical health psychologist, I notice that many people are using psychological defense mechanisms to downplay the risk of COVID.

These are my Top 7 examples:


(For those without an X/Twitter account):

Quote:
#1 – Denial – Pretending a problem does not exist to provide artificial relief from anxiety.

Examples:

“During COVID” or “During the pandemic” (past tense)

“The pandemic is over”

“Covid is mild”

“It’s gotten milder”

“Covid is now like a cold or the flu”

“Masks don’t work anyway”

“Covid is NOT airborne”

“Pandemic of the unvaccinated”

“Schools are safe”

“Children don’t transmit COVID”

“Covid is mild in young people”

“Summer flu”

“I’m sick but it’s not Covid”

Taking a rapid test only once

Using self-reported case estimates (25x underestimate) rather than wastewater-derived case estimation

Using hospitalization capacity estimates to enact public health precautions (lagging indicator)

Citing mortality estimates rather than excess mortality estimates. Citing excess mortality without adjusting for survivorship bias.


Quote:
#2 – Projection – When someone takes what they are feeling and attempts to put it on someone else to artificially reduce their own anxiety.

Examples:

“Stop living in fear.” (the attacker is living in fear)

“You can take your mask off.” (they are insecure about being unmasked themselves)

“When are you going to stop masking?”

“You can’t live in fear forever.”


Quote:
#3 – Displacement – When someone takes their pandemic anxiety and redirects their discomfort toward someone or something else.

Examples:

Angry, seemingly inexplicable outbursts by co-workers, strangers, or family

White affluent people caring less about the pandemic after learning that it disproportionately affects lower-socioeconomic status people of color

Scapegoating based on vaccination status, masking behavior, etc.

“Pandemic of the unvaccinated”

Vax and relax

“How many of them were vaccinated?” (troll comment on Covid deaths or long Covid)

Redirecting anxiety about mitigating a highly-contagious airborne virus by encouraging people to do simple ineffective mitigation like handwashing

“You do you” (complainers are the problem, not Covid)

Telling people to get vaccinated or take other precautions against the flu or RSV but not mentioning Covid

Parents artificially reducing their own anxiety by placing children in poorly mitigated environments

Clinicians artificially reducing their own anxiety by placing patients in poorly mitigated environments

Housework to distract from stress

Peer pressure not to mask


Quote:
#4 – Compartmentalization – Holding two conflicting ideas or behaviors, such as caution and incaution, rather than dealing with the anxiety evoked by considering the incautious behaviors more deeply (hypocrisy)

Hospitals and clinicians claim to value health/safety but then don’t require universal precautions

Public health officials claim to value evidence but then give non-evidence based advice (handwashing over masking), obscure or use low-value data over high-quality data (self-reported case counts over wastewater), etc.

Getting a flu vaccine but not a Covid vaccine

Interviewing long Covid experts who recommend masking in indoor public spaces but then going to Applebee’s

Masking in one potentially risky setting (grocery store) but not masking in another similar or more-risky setting (classroom)

Infectious disease conference where people are unmasked

Long Covid and other patient-advocacy meetings where only half the people mask

In-person only EDI events

Not testing because it’s just family

Mask breaks


Quote:
#5 – Reaction formation – expressing artificial positive feelings when actually experiencing anxiety

“It’s good I got my infection out of the way before the holidays”

“I had Covid but it was mild”

Anything quoted in Dr. Jonathan Howard’s book, “We Want Them Infected: How the Failed Quest for Herd Immunity Led Doctors to Embrace Anti-Vaccine Movement”

Herd immunity (infections help)

Hybrid immunity (infections help)

“It’s okay because I was recently vaccinated”

“Omicron is milder”

“Textbook virus”

“Building immunity"


To be continued...
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« Last Edit: May 24th, 2024 at 10:19am by Carl D »  

** Repeat Covid infections exercise our immune system in the same way that repeat concussions exercise our brain **
 
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Carl D
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Re: People are still dying of Covid19 in Australia
Reply #655 - May 24th, 2024 at 10:14am
 
Continued...

Quote:
#6 – Rationalization – Artificially reducing Covid anxiety through a weak justification.

Examples:

“I didn’t mask but I used nasal spray”

“I don’t need to mask because I was recently vaccinated”

“It finally got me.”

“You’re going to get Covid again and again and again over your life.”

“It’s not Covid because I don’t have a sore throat.”

“It’s not Covid because I took a rapid test 3 days ago.”

“It’s not Covid because I’m vaccinated.”

“Airplanes have excellent ventilation.”

“I’ve had Covid three times. It’s mild.”

“Verily was cheaper.”

“Nobody else is masking.”

“Nobody else is testing.”

“My roommates don’t take any precautions, so there’s no point in me either.”

“I have a large family, so there’s no point in taking precautions.”

Surgical masks (they are actual “procedure masks,” by the way)

Various pseudo-scientific treatments used by the left and right

Handwashing as the primary Covid public health recommendation

Droplet transmission as a thing

Public health guidance that begins with “data shows” (sic)

Risk maps that never turn deep red

5 expired rapid tests

“Masks recommended” instead of universal precautions

“Seasonal”


Quote:
#7 – Intellectualization – using extensive cognitive arguments to artificially circumvent Covid anxiety

Examples:

Unending threads to justify indoor dining

Data-rich public health dashboards that use low-quality metrics and/or don’t change public health recommendations as risk increases

The entire justification for “off-ramps”

Oster, Wen, Prasad

Schools denying air cleaners because it “could make children anxious”

Schools not rapid testing this surge because it “could make children anxious”

The mental gymnastics underlying the rationales for who can get vaccinated, how frequently, or with what brand

Service workers told not to mask because it could make clients uncomfortable

“What comorbidities did they have?”

“The vulnerable will fall by the wayside”

Musicians and others holding large indoor events

5-day isolation periods


And, yes.... masks DO work.

Masks and respirators for prevention of respiratory infections: a state of the science review

22 May 2024

Authors: Trisha Greenhalgh https://orcid.org/0000-0003-2369-8088 trish.greenhalgh@phc.ox.ac.uk, C. Raina MacIntyre https://orcid.org/0000-0002-3060-0555, Michael G. Baker https://orcid.org/0000-0002-1865-1536, Shovon Bhattacharjee https://orcid.org/0000-0003-1241-641X, Abrar A. Chughtai https://orcid.org/0000-0003-4203-7891, David Fisman https://orcid.org/0000-0001-5009-6926, Mohana Kunasekaran.


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** Repeat Covid infections exercise our immune system in the same way that repeat concussions exercise our brain **
 
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greggerypeccary
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Re: People are still dying of Covid19 in Australia
Reply #656 - May 24th, 2024 at 10:25am
 
ShellShilo wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 9:29pm:
It is mindless arrogance and ignorance, to think that man can stop a virus from infecting him.


You seen many cases of Polio lately?

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Re: People are still dying of Covid19 in Australia
Reply #657 - May 24th, 2024 at 12:14pm
 
Rockhampton had about 300 people gather over at the Showgrounds for the annual Bookfest. People touching DVDs and books. One guy was sniffling away near me, obviously in the early stages of his runny nose. A few people coughed near me. We have the agricultural show in about 3 weeks time. The 300 people in the building at the time might spread the germs among 3 times that many people in town. The Show will have an outbreak of influenza, the common cold and covid, no problem at all. I might even wear my face mask for the first time in a year.
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At this stage...
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aquascoot
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Re: People are still dying of Covid19 in Australia
Reply #658 - May 24th, 2024 at 1:08pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on May 24th, 2024 at 10:25am:
ShellShilo wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 9:29pm:
It is mindless arrogance and ignorance, to think that man can stop a virus from infecting him.


You seen many cases of Polio lately?




no


because polio vaccines actually work Grin Grin Grin

remember

"this all goes away once we get enough jabs in arms" (to qoute dr anastasia, gladys, dan, scomo ) Grin Grin Grin Grin
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ShellShilo
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Re: People are still dying of Covid19 in Australia
Reply #659 - May 24th, 2024 at 2:18pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on May 24th, 2024 at 10:25am:
ShellShilo wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 9:29pm:
It is mindless arrogance and ignorance, to think that man can stop a virus from infecting him.


You seen many cases of Polio lately?



There have been 3 cases of Polio in the US since 2000. Polio still exist in 2 countries(Pakistan and Afghanistan).

Since most people have been vaccinated, we might be infected, but never reach the disease stage. There are also VARIANTS of the Poliovirus. Which accounts for the over 600 cases from around the world.

https://speakingofmedicine.plos.org/2023/03/17/why-is-polio-making-a-comeback-an
d-what-can-we-do-about-it/#:~:text=Variant%20polioviruses%20are%20now%20the,Cong
o%2C%20Yemen%2C%20and%20Nigeria.
https://www.who.int/news/item/08-04-2024-statement-following-the-thirty-eighth-meeting-of-the-ihr-emergency-committee-for-polio#:~:text=Sudan%20and%20Sudan.-,Wild%20poliovirus,samples%20to%20date%20in%202024.

Remember viruses are simply dormant without a host. They don't just die out.
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