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People are still dying of Covid19 in Australia (Read 38051 times)
ShellShilo
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Re: People are still dying of Covid19 in Australia
Reply #765 - Jun 13th, 2024 at 4:10pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Jun 12th, 2024 at 11:25pm:
In individual cities in the US tens of thousands died in a few months before lockdowns. It is valid to see the comparative results between those who took action and those who didn't.

You said that it made no difference but when we look at places who didn't effectively lock down quickly the fact that it did make a huge difference is obvious.  NY for example were early hit and had 83,000 deaths.


I don't remember saying that early lockdowns would make little difference in the death/infection tallies(but I could have). Even during the first "15 odd months" of the lockdowns. There just isn't any direct causal links between lockdowns and mass infections/deaths.

I do remember pointing out population density as a contributing factor. For example you used NY. It has the highest population density of all the US states(27K people/sq. mile). In comparison, Sydney's population density is 1.1K people/sq. mile.

Does this mean the virus will spread 27 times faster in NY than in Sydney? No, there are other factors that must be considered. Australia is NOT the same as other countries. Many factors might not apply here.

You said that there were thousands of covid deaths in NSW and Victoria within the "15 odd months" of the lockdown. But my research shows there were only around 900 recorded deaths throughout Australia.

My point is, that we should NOT base our policies and strategies on the stats from other countries. We certainly know more about these factors in our own country than we do in the US. 

We know that there were only 7 covid deaths, and over 600 cases before the lockdowns. After lockdowns(15 odd months) there were over 900 deaths, and over 30K cases. If we calculate that the 7 deaths were in 1 month, then there should only be 105 deaths in 15 months of lockdowns. Why was there over 900 deaths? The government will just blame the people and create even tighter restrictions   

The last two points are, it doesn't matter how many people are infected. All that matters is how many people die DIRECTLY from this virus. And how many people recover from this virus. Remember, even over 80% of our elderly recover from this virus.

Finally, there is asolutely NOTHING we can do to "CONTROL CHANCE". Since the mortality rate of this virus is less than 1%, we are in the realm of chance. The variables in this range are almost infinite.

So let me ask you, do you think that 26M people can stay 1.5 meters apart indefinitely? Do you think that masks WILL protect you from being infected? Do you think that vaccines will prevent anyone from being infected?

So why did we almost destroy our own country thinking that these measures could? It would have been cheaper for the government to issue everyone(including children) with their own completely self-contained HAZMAT suit!!

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ShellShilo
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Re: People are still dying of Covid19 in Australia
Reply #766 - Jun 13th, 2024 at 4:26pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 13th, 2024 at 1:31pm:
ShellShilo wrote on Jun 12th, 2024 at 10:57pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 12th, 2024 at 8:55pm:
ShellShilo wrote on Jun 12th, 2024 at 8:47pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 12th, 2024 at 8:11pm:
ShellShilo wrote on Jun 12th, 2024 at 5:46pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 12th, 2024 at 5:03pm:
ShellShilo wrote on Jun 11th, 2024 at 5:31pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 11th, 2024 at 4:44pm:
ShellShilo wrote on Jun 11th, 2024 at 3:13pm:
Dnarever wrote on Jun 11th, 2024 at 11:13am:
Covid Deaths in Australia will soon cross 25,000.

Thru the lock down period Australia had one of the lowest death rates.



Lockdowns began in Australia on the 22nd March 2020. At that time there were only 7 recorded deaths from/with Covid-19. And, only 607 confirmed cases.

The lockdown was officially declared, "finished" in Sept. 2022. Even forced-isolation for those infected. At this time, there were 10,112,229 reported cases of covid-10. There were also 14,421 deaths with/from covid-19(0.1% mortality).

So a 2K times increase in deaths, and a 17K times increase in cases, were all during the lockdown.

Lockdowns have done more damage to the Australian society than the virus ever could. If we ignore everything else, then I agree that the rate was lower. Just NOT the numbers!


That would have to be one of the most twisted pieces of "logic" I've seen in my life.

Surely you're joking   Undecided


All I'm saying is that, the lockdown did absolutely nothing to slow the spread, and number of deaths/infections from this virus.


Yes, I know what you're saying, but it's insane.

Do you honestly not understand the flaw in your "reasoning"?



YES, I HONESTLY DON'T UNDERSTAND THE FLAW IN MY REASONING!!


I hope you're joking   Roll Eyes


NO! I'm not! 


That makes it even sadder   Undecided


On that, we DO agree!


Read what you've written and figure out where your "logic" is wrong.

You're making a massive fool of yourself.  Seriously.

I'll give you a hint:

Can you prove that "the lockdown did absolutely nothing to slow the spread, and number of deaths/infections from this virus"?

Prove.  Not give anecdotal evidence or meaningless stats.

Provide proof that "the lockdown did absolutely nothing to slow the spread, and number of deaths/infections from this virus".

I'll tell you now, you can't do it.  It's impossible, and that's where you're going wrong.

Sit down and think about it for a minute - the penny will eventually drop.


So you are basically saying, that because I disagree with you, my logic must be flawed!! Wow!!

So let me ask you something? Prove that the lockdown DID slow the spread of this virus. That fewer people were being infected. And, that fewer people were dying. And NO anecdotal evidence or meaningless stats! Okay?

So, "sit down and think about it for a minute - the penny will eventually drop.".
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greggerypeccary
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Re: People are still dying of Covid19 in Australia
Reply #767 - Jun 13th, 2024 at 5:06pm
 
ShellShilo wrote on Jun 13th, 2024 at 4:26pm:
So you are basically saying, that because I disagree with you, my logic must be flawed!! Wow!!



No, I'm asking you a question.

Why won't you answer it?

Can you prove that "the lockdown did absolutely nothing to slow the spread, and number of deaths/infections from this virus"?

Yes or no?

Those are your words: "the lockdown did absolutely nothing to slow the spread, and number of deaths/infections from this virus".

Prove it.
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Carl D
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Re: People are still dying of Covid19 in Australia
Reply #768 - Jun 13th, 2024 at 5:23pm
 
Oh, look... here's more evidence that aquascoot's "mild respiratory virus" is anything but.

From the UK...

https://x.com/_CatintheHat/status/1801019335693029729

Quote:
When you mass infect a population with a disease which, according to the World Health Organisation, causes long-term chronic illness in 10% of infections, then sadly a “tsunami of disability” is the inevitable consequence.

Scientists warned us…


Yes, and it will be exactly the same for Australia and the rest of the world.
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GP6BicZXUAAea3H.jpg (140 KB | 1 )
GP6BicZXUAAea3H.jpg

** Repeat Covid infections exercise our immune system in the same way that repeat concussions exercise our brain **
 
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aquascoot
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Re: People are still dying of Covid19 in Australia
Reply #769 - Jun 13th, 2024 at 5:51pm
 
people who prefer to wear their pyjamas all day after they have a cold dont have long covid .

they have a slack attitude and love the sick role
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greggerypeccary
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Re: People are still dying of Covid19 in Australia
Reply #770 - Jun 13th, 2024 at 6:26pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 13th, 2024 at 5:06pm:
ShellShilo wrote on Jun 13th, 2024 at 4:26pm:
So you are basically saying, that because I disagree with you, my logic must be flawed!! Wow!!



No, I'm asking you a question.

Why won't you answer it?

Can you prove that "the lockdown did absolutely nothing to slow the spread, and number of deaths/infections from this virus"?

Yes or no?

Those are your words: "the lockdown did absolutely nothing to slow the spread, and number of deaths/infections from this virus".

Prove it.


ShellShilo?  Hello ...  Undecided
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ShellShilo
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Re: People are still dying of Covid19 in Australia
Reply #771 - Jun 13th, 2024 at 6:47pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Jun 13th, 2024 at 12:34pm:
i somewhat concur

but i doubt the vaccines killed many people
just as  i doubt covid killed many people (other then those who were in gods waiting room).

the problem is that mandates and lockdowns divided people and made them lose trust in vaccines which is entirely counter productive.

if covid was a terrible scourge maybe we should have pumped out a vaccine without the usual years of trails

but it wasnt

it was just another medical issue and shoudl have been dealt with in exactly the same way as other medical issues

by doctors and patients

not by politicians and police and major social , educational , family and career disruption

people were not allowed to visit dying relatives interstate
were not allowed to be there for births of their children
missed out on weddings and funerals

that was a large over reaction and the public wont take kindly to it again and who knows , it may actually be neccessary in the future


I never meant to imply there was an inordinate amount of adverse vaccine events. Any adverse event less than 1%, is just friken bad luck.

All vaccines will have some adverse reactions and side effects. However, this is NOT a normal vaccine. I doesn't work in the body like a normal vaccine. All other vaccines use dead, attenuated, partial, or modified real pathogens. The immune system's antibodies can recognize multiple markers(not just one) on the pathogens/antigens.

Also, ACE2 receptor sites are found all over the body. If these mRNA attach to ACE2 receptors on cardiac muscle cells, they will force them to produce spiral spikes. This will then prompt the immune system to attack them(cardiac muscles). I'm curious! Do people not understand how the immune system works?

Forunately, it is rare for a healthcare worker to inject this vaccine directly into a blood vessel. But it does happen. This doesn't happen with normal vaccines. But the more injections in the population, the greater the chances of adverse events in the population. 

My mother passed away during the lockdown. I was not allowed to say my final goodbys.

I agree that your medical problems should always be between you and your doctor. The line is drawn when I am threatened, ridiculed, coerced, or forced to put anything into my body against my will. This should be a no-brainer to anyone!

What medical decisions others choose is none of my business. If you don't want medical help, no doctor can force you too. So how can the government? I think this was only to show the world, that Australia can do one better than any other country.

We can isolate longer, suspend more civil liberties, have higher fines, hire dumber thugs for enforcement, build better containment centers, close down more businesses, force medical ID's/passports, close down interstate borders, stop international flights, enforce curfews and impossible mandates(distancing and masks), and jab or job.

The world was so impressed, that they actually marched to free Australia in solidarity! That actually brought a tear to my eye. 

I doubt if the government will ever make that mistake again!  
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greggerypeccary
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Re: People are still dying of Covid19 in Australia
Reply #772 - Jun 13th, 2024 at 6:48pm
 
ShellShilo wrote on Jun 13th, 2024 at 4:26pm:
So you are basically saying, that because I disagree with you, my logic must be flawed!! Wow!!


No, I'm asking you a question.

Why won't you answer it?

Can you prove that "the lockdown did absolutely nothing to slow the spread, and number of deaths/infections from this virus"?

Yes or no?

Those are your words: "the lockdown did absolutely nothing to slow the spread, and number of deaths/infections from this virus".

Prove it.
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ShellShilo
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Re: People are still dying of Covid19 in Australia
Reply #773 - Jun 13th, 2024 at 6:55pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 13th, 2024 at 6:26pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 13th, 2024 at 5:06pm:
ShellShilo wrote on Jun 13th, 2024 at 4:26pm:
So you are basically saying, that because I disagree with you, my logic must be flawed!! Wow!!



No, I'm asking you a question.

Why won't you answer it?

Can you prove that "the lockdown did absolutely nothing to slow the spread, and number of deaths/infections from this virus"?

Yes or no?

Those are your words: "the lockdown did absolutely nothing to slow the spread, and number of deaths/infections from this virus".

Prove it.


ShellShilo?  Hello ...  Undecided


Hang in there son. I'm going to have tea now, and watch a tele-drama. Then I'll get back to you! Okay?
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greggerypeccary
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Re: People are still dying of Covid19 in Australia
Reply #774 - Jun 13th, 2024 at 7:21pm
 
ShellShilo wrote on Jun 13th, 2024 at 6:55pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 13th, 2024 at 6:26pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 13th, 2024 at 5:06pm:
ShellShilo wrote on Jun 13th, 2024 at 4:26pm:
So you are basically saying, that because I disagree with you, my logic must be flawed!! Wow!!



No, I'm asking you a question.

Why won't you answer it?

Can you prove that "the lockdown did absolutely nothing to slow the spread, and number of deaths/infections from this virus"?

Yes or no?

Those are your words: "the lockdown did absolutely nothing to slow the spread, and number of deaths/infections from this virus".

Prove it.


ShellShilo?  Hello ...  Undecided


Hang in there son. I'm going to have tea now, and watch a tele-drama. Then I'll get back to you! Okay?


Good.

Remember, I want proof - not anecdotal evidence or irrelevant stats.

Can you prove that "the lockdown did absolutely nothing to slow the spread, and number of deaths/infections from this virus"?
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Dnarever
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Re: People are still dying of Covid19 in Australia
Reply #775 - Jun 13th, 2024 at 10:42pm
 
ShellShilo wrote on Jun 13th, 2024 at 4:10pm:
Dnarever wrote on Jun 12th, 2024 at 11:25pm:
In individual cities in the US tens of thousands died in a few months before lockdowns. It is valid to see the comparative results between those who took action and those who didn't.

You said that it made no difference but when we look at places who didn't effectively lock down quickly the fact that it did make a huge difference is obvious.  NY for example were early hit and had 83,000 deaths.


I don't remember saying that early lockdowns would make little difference in the death/infection tallies(but I could have). Even during the first "15 odd months" of the lockdowns. There just isn't any direct causal links between lockdowns and mass infections/deaths.

I do remember pointing out population density as a contributing factor. For example you used NY. It has the highest population density of all the US states(27K people/sq. mile). In comparison, Sydney's population density is 1.1K people/sq. mile.

Does this mean the virus will spread 27 times faster in NY than in Sydney? No, there are other factors that must be considered. Australia is NOT the same as other countries. Many factors might not apply here.

You said that there were thousands of covid deaths in NSW and Victoria within the "15 odd months" of the lockdown. But my research shows there were only around 900 recorded deaths throughout Australia.

My point is, that we should NOT base our policies and strategies on the stats from other countries. We certainly know more about these factors in our own country than we do in the US. 

We know that there were only 7 covid deaths, and over 600 cases before the lockdowns. After lockdowns(15 odd months) there were over 900 deaths, and over 30K cases. If we calculate that the 7 deaths were in 1 month, then there should only be 105 deaths in 15 months of lockdowns. Why was there over 900 deaths? The government will just blame the people and create even tighter restrictions   

The last two points are, it doesn't matter how many people are infected. All that matters is how many people die DIRECTLY from this virus. And how many people recover from this virus. Remember, even over 80% of our elderly recover from this virus.

Finally, there is asolutely NOTHING we can do to "CONTROL CHANCE". Since the mortality rate of this virus is less than 1%, we are in the realm of chance. The variables in this range are almost infinite.

So let me ask you, do you think that 26M people can stay 1.5 meters apart indefinitely? Do you think that masks WILL protect you from being infected? Do you think that vaccines will prevent anyone from being infected?

So why did we almost destroy our own country thinking that these measures could? It would have been cheaper for the government to issue everyone(including children) with their own completely self-contained HAZMAT suit!!



Quote:
I do remember pointing out population density as a contributing factor. For example you used NY. It has the highest population density of all the US states


I used NY as a similar population I am aware that other factors are involved.

I could have included Texas where the deaths were over 100,000. Obviously higher population and it being a republican state made a difference, more reluctance to lock down mask or have the vaccine.

Quote:
just isn't any direct causal links between lockdowns and mass infections/deaths.


It is a fact that places like Australia that locked down quickly had much fewer deaths than places that didn't. There were other factors but the base fact is correct. It wasn't a coincidence that places that were slow to act equated to more people dying.



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ShellShilo
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Re: People are still dying of Covid19 in Australia
Reply #776 - Jun 13th, 2024 at 11:45pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 13th, 2024 at 1:31pm:
Read what you've written and figure out where your "logic" is wrong.

You're making a massive fool of yourself.  Seriously.

I'll give you a hint:

Can you prove that "the lockdown did absolutely nothing to slow the spread, and number of deaths/infections from this virus"?

Prove.  Not give anecdotal evidence or meaningless stats.

Provide proof that "the lockdown did absolutely nothing to slow the spread, and number of deaths/infections from this virus".

I'll tell you now, you can't do it.  It's impossible, and that's where you're going wrong.

Sit down and think about it for a minute - the penny will eventually drop.


In my original post(#736) that seemed to have pushed your button, I made no such statement. Yet you claimed that it was logically flawed and insane. It wasn't until post(#738) that I was clarifying to another poster, that I made that statement.

So let me see if I understand YOUR conditions. You want me to prove MY assertion, but I can't use any data or stats(well Carl would be screwed), because stats and data are meaningless. And, no personal experiences or anecdotal evidence are allowed. Because they just don't matter.   

My logic was simple. I would show the numbers of covid deaths/infections before the lockdown, before vaccines, during the lockdowns, and after lockdowns. These numbers are based on death certificates,  hospital admissions, and aged care reports.

If the lockdowns and other restrictions were working, we would expect to see a decline in the rate of infections/deaths. Instead, the rate of deaths/infections stayed around 1%. 

In fact, after 2022(end lockdowns) the death rates was falling to less than 1% each year. Now this was more likely due to the virus running out of viable hosts(herd immunity).

As I have said before, any stats under 1% is just bad luck. We just can't control chance. If 99.9% of people survive this virus, that's as good as it gets! This the main reason why people marched. So many Australian couldn't see the hype. Only the reality. The Government was turning Australia into a centralized authoritarian nation. 

A fraction of a percent of people are going to die from this illness, no matter what safety protocols they adopt. Our physical and mental health will change as we age. Entropy will always win in the end.

I doubt if any of this will satisfy your thirst for knowledge. So let me concede that if I'm not allowed to provide evidence to support my opinion, then I can't "PROVE" that my opinion is sound or valid. Somehow, I don't think you're really interested in proof! Are you?

I won't ask you to prove your belief that the lockdown strategies DID directly decrease deaths and infections rates. That would indeed be impossible. Even if you could present stats and data. Hence why data from other countries are used. 

So, could you now point out where in post #736 my logic was flawed? Or why it is insane? Maybe someone else here can help you to explain?

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ShellShilo
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Re: People are still dying of Covid19 in Australia
Reply #777 - Jun 14th, 2024 at 1:39pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Jun 13th, 2024 at 10:42pm:
I used NY as a similar population I am aware that other factors are involved.

I could have included Texas where the deaths were over 100,000. Obviously higher population and it being a republican state made a difference, more reluctance to lock down mask or have the vaccine.


Okay, lets look at Texas. It DOES have over 100,000 deaths. But you didn't mention that these were the total accumulated deaths since early 2020. Right? Now lets add some more context! As of April 11, 2024, the total deaths with/from Covid was 104,793 people(1% mortality).

Now lets also include, that out of a total of 9,190,299 cases, there were 9,071,389 people who survived(99% survival). This is around 68 Texans dying each day with/from this virus, since the start of the pandemic.

I also don't think that this virus has any partisan preference. It is an equal opportunity virus. It will infect young/old, masked/unmasked, vaccinated/unvaccinated, republicans/democrates, Black Americans/White Americans, ALL EQUALLY!

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/texas/


Dnarever wrote on Jun 13th, 2024 at 10:42pm:
It is a fact that places like Australia that locked down quickly had much fewer deaths than places that didn't. There were other factors but the base fact is correct. It wasn't a coincidence that places that were slow to act equated to more people dying.


Although this might seem intuitively obvious, the stats and data just don't support this claim. What the stats and data HAVE shown us, is that this is a less virulent form of the original SARS virus. That the majority of people infected are asymptomatic, or reported having zero to mild symptoms. Those not in the high-risk category have an over 99% chance of survival.

This was really just a storm in a teacup.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: People are still dying of Covid19 in Australia
Reply #778 - Jun 14th, 2024 at 2:29pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 13th, 2024 at 7:21pm:
ShellShilo wrote on Jun 13th, 2024 at 6:55pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 13th, 2024 at 6:26pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 13th, 2024 at 5:06pm:
ShellShilo wrote on Jun 13th, 2024 at 4:26pm:
So you are basically saying, that because I disagree with you, my logic must be flawed!! Wow!!



No, I'm asking you a question.

Why won't you answer it?

Can you prove that "the lockdown did absolutely nothing to slow the spread, and number of deaths/infections from this virus"?

Yes or no?

Those are your words: "the lockdown did absolutely nothing to slow the spread, and number of deaths/infections from this virus".

Prove it.


ShellShilo?  Hello ...  Undecided


Hang in there son. I'm going to have tea now, and watch a tele-drama. Then I'll get back to you! Okay?


Good.

Remember, I want proof.

Can you prove that "the lockdown did absolutely nothing to slow the spread, and number of deaths/infections from this virus"?


So, that's a 'no'.

White flag accepted   Wink
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Carl D
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Re: People are still dying of Covid19 in Australia
Reply #779 - Jun 14th, 2024 at 5:25pm
 
Meanwhile, the reaping of the elderly and vulnerable continues unabated.

Another
48
Covid deaths in Australian aged care this week.

https://x.com/BigBadDenis/status/1801481310768443683

Quote:
🔸6,677 aged care COVID deaths since beginning of pandemic

🔸686 reported deaths in 2020
🔸226 reported deaths in 2021
🔸3,855 reported deaths in 2022
🔸1,359 reported deaths in 2023
🔸551 reported deaths in 2024


https://x.com/BigBadDenis/status/1801481308587364861

Quote:
COVID-19 outbreaks in Australian residential aged care facilities: 13 June 2024

🔹Active cases: 4,147 (-141)
🔹Active outbreaks: 487 (+12)
🔹Residents: 2,888 (-94)
🔹Staff: 1,259 (-47)
🔹Reported deaths in 2024: 551 (+48)


And...

South Australia. Another 28 deaths (reported monthly).

https://x.com/BigBadDenis/status/1801478287463764256

Quote:
SA weekly COVID update: 5 June to 11 June

🔹PCR cases only: 1,666 (-31.4%)
🔹Deaths: 28 (+28)
🔹Total deaths: 1,815 (+28)
🔹Hospital: NR
🔹ICU: NR

NR = Not Reported


ACT. 3 more deaths.

https://x.com/BigBadDenis/status/1801479370617589826

Quote:
ACT weekly COVID update: 7 June to 13 June

🔹PCR cases only: 201 (-25.5%)
🔹Deaths: 3 (+2)
🔹Total deaths: 320 (+3)
🔹Hospital: 45 (-15.0%)
🔹ICU: 2 (-1)
🔹Vent: 1 (+1)


And Victoria. 134 deaths in 28 days - about 33 deaths per week (see the summary).

https://x.com/AndrewHewat/status/1801408109816254960

Quote:
Vic Covid update
"The number of people in hospital with COVID-19 has decreased this week. The 7-day average is 368, compared to 412 last week"
Peak? False peak? Wastewater data (still rising) but 2 weeks old.
Regardless, Covid is still circulating at high levels in the community.


Nothing from the other States or Territory, I just imagine how much of a Covid disaster New South Wales must be in at the moment if they were still reporting cases and deaths.

https://x.com/annatime94/status/1801415726873591999

Quote:
"The pressure on NSW hospitals right now is like we've never seen before':
Ryan Park

What a mystery @RyanPark_Keira


“We are seeing big increases in not only the number presenting but also the severity of the illnesses they're presenting with”.

Another mystery.


Yes, what a mystery indeed (Anna is being sarcastic there by the way. She knows that it's Covid causing most of these issues).

Of course, 99.9% of the Australian population knows nothing about all of this - just the way the pollies like it.

And, of the few that do know I'm sure the majority of them couldn't care less (including at least 2 regular posters here).

Tragic and disgraceful.
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« Last Edit: Jun 14th, 2024 at 5:32pm by Carl D »  

** Repeat Covid infections exercise our immune system in the same way that repeat concussions exercise our brain **
 
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