Australian Politics Forum - This Aboriginal Disaster

thegreatdivide

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Re: This Aboriginal Disaster
Reply #165 - Jun 9^th, 2024 at 12:52pm

Gnads wrote on Jun 9^th, 2024 at 12:36pm:

Nearly $40 billion a year is not just "any assistance" you fool.

And neither does it include the mining royalty payments made to certain Aboriginal groups in the areas where they operate .... that's another tax free wad of cash they get ....

so why hasn't decades & multi $millions of royalty payments in Gove, Groote Eylandt, Weipa, Jabiru, the Pilbara etc. helped traditional Aboriginal people close the GAP?

Because the government like you follows obsolete neoliberal 'invisible hand' market orthodoxy, and hence is committed to maintaining the poverty industry's welfare dependency program, resulting in most of that $40 billion ending up in the pockets of bureaucrats and community "leaders".

Quote:

When is enough enough? What is enough?

When everyone has paid work, with an above-poverty level minimum wage.

Quote:

Seems you are clueless in that regard. Roll Eyes

Mirror time?

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Frank

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Re: This Aboriginal Disaster
Reply #166 - Jun 9^th, 2024 at 1:04pm

SadKangaroo wrote on Jun 7^th, 2024 at 5:33pm:

Frank wrote on Jun 7^th, 2024 at 4:20pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Jun 7^th, 2024 at 2:32pm:

Frank wrote on Jun 7^th, 2024 at 12:14pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Jun 7^th, 2024 at 10:23am:

Frank wrote on Jun 7^th, 2024 at 10:18am:

Why? To point out the obvious - Aborigines must change themselves, not always bleat about gimme, gimme and then change nothing.

They are not treating each other abominably because of what YOU do or do not do. You and I do not matter in this, so don't try to muscle in and try to take fake responsibility for something you have zero role in.

So they must change themselves, it has nothing to do with us, so again, why the constant posting about it?

As you say in the same post, it's not happening because some what YOU or I do or do not do.

So what's the point if we have zero role in it?

The point is to refute your endless, inane stance.

Yall have been circle jerking with these claims well before I entered the chat...

You and your inane stance are emblematic of the empty headed, preening white guilt merchants.

I just don't see the point in the almost obsessive compulsion to keep posting about it when those posting have made it clear they don't care about the victims of the abuse and not only claim there is no solution to it, but fight against any attempts that those in a position to help try to make.

It is an entirely pointless and unhealthy endeavour on their, and your behalf.

Unless there is some other motive that the group of you are unwilling to admit?

Government efforts are evidently futile because Aborigines are not doing their bit.

Yet there is endless special pleading for more 'help'. But the help is wasted, mismanaged or swindled because the abuse, the drinking, the child neglect - things ENTIRELY within Aborigines' individual and collective power to change or not - continues unabated and irrespective of any government 'help'.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: This Aboriginal Disaster
Reply #167 - Jun 9^th, 2024 at 1:23pm

SadKangaroo wrote on Jun 7^th, 2024 at 5:33pm:

Unless there is some other motive that the group of you are unwilling to admit?

They are vicious 'personal responsibility' types who don't want to see resources directed to improving the socio- economic circumstances of marginalized or disadvantaged groups. They even resort to denying the existance of disadvantage.

Trouble is the current system of government-"assistance" (which they despise) is based on an ineffective, wasteful poverty industry aka 'welfare', in lieu of provision of work for all with an above-poverty minimum wage.

They will run rings around you until you understand this.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: This Aboriginal Disaster
Reply #168 - Jun 9^th, 2024 at 1:46pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jun 7^th, 2024 at 2:03pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 7^th, 2024 at 12:24pm:

Frank wrote on Jun 7^th, 2024 at 12:14pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Jun 7^th, 2024 at 10:23am:

Frank wrote on Jun 7^th, 2024 at 10:18am:

Why? To point out the obvious - Aborigines must change themselves, not always bleat about gimme, gimme and then change nothing.

They are not treating each other abominably because of what YOU do or do not do. You and I do not matter in this, so don't try to muscle in and try to take fake responsibility for something you have zero role in.

So they must change themselves, it has nothing to do with us, so again, why the constant posting about it?

As you say in the same post, it's not happening because some what YOU or I do or do not do.

So what's the point if we have zero role in it?

The point is to refute your endless, inane stance: what can everybody ELSE do for Aborigines.

The point is to highlight, even as it is ignored again and again, the real question: what can Aborigines do to end their abominable treatment of each other? What can Aborigines do? What are Aborigines responsible for?

Scapegoating yourself - what can we do - without ever asking what Aborigines can do, is stupid and offensive. Your labelling it wacist to even ask it is doubly so.

That's the same as asking what can Australians do to end the egregious DV and sexual harassment epidemic sweeping the country.

Peter Costello got very upset when asked that question....

Well - the NT coroner has made a start in pinning it squarely on one demographic of about 10% of the overall community perpetrating 93% of the domestic killings.

Yep, like I said, denialism won't achieve anything.

Quote:

Who said there is some 'epidemic' of DV and 'sexual harassment' sweeping the country?

Bingo - conservative denialism first up - do you not access media at all?

Quote:

There are no more 'dv' things than usual, the 'definition of 'dv' is itself abused and abusive - and 'sexual harassment'?

No more than usual = no problem then....

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The Ballarat murder (as it appears at this time to be), for example - is a murder - it is not 'dv' and it is not 'sexual harassment' - stop riding on the coat tails of emotional silliness.

I didn't say it was DV; (sigh) it's not easy debating you 'personal responsibility' types who can't even think clearly.

Quote:

Until you stop portraying women as perpetual victims so as to offer them unfair advantages everywhere, you will never have a civilised society - only one founded on violence and abuse and discrimination .. and violent imposition by government will only exacerbate the environment of violence.

Interestingly, women 'want a life' as well these days; almost no-one wants kids yet women are stuck with it. Could indeed be the cause of the current publicity about DV and sexual harrassment, as women are trying to develop their own careers and demand men take on some house duties.

Quote:

I suppose next you're going to try to tell us they suffer a 'wage wealth gap' despite the real figures?

Good to see you make a correct statement (as amended...).

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Frank

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Re: This Aboriginal Disaster
Reply #169 - Jun 9^th, 2024 at 3:03pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 9^th, 2024 at 1:23pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Jun 7^th, 2024 at 5:33pm:

Unless there is some other motive that the group of you are unwilling to admit?

They are vicious 'personal responsibility' types who don't want to see resources directed to improving the socio- economic circumstances of marginalized or disadvantaged groups. They even resort to denying the existance of disadvantage.

Trouble is the current system of government-"assistance" (which they despise) is based on an ineffective, wasteful poverty industry aka 'welfare', in lieu of provision of work for all with an above-poverty minimum wage.

They will run rings around you until you understand this.

Mutual obligation will be reintroduced in a revived work-for-the-dole scheme that was intended to steer 40,000 Indigenous Australians towards meaningful activities but has been voluntary for the past three years.

The Australian understands only about one in four “participants” in the federal work-for-the dole scheme are doing any approved work or activities in exchange for fortnightly benefits.

The scheme, called the Commonwealth Development Program, is virtually dormant in many of the 1000 communities where it technically operates.

Indigenous Australians Minister Linda Burney told The Weekend Australian that leaders in remote communities were telling her they wanted the new scheme to have mutual obligations.

“One of the really strong principles of Aboriginal culture is reciprocity. I get the very strong sense that part of the desire for mutual obligations goes to that notion of reciprocity. Of course, the ultimate mutual obligation is real jobs, and you’ve got to turn up to get paid,” Ms Burney said.

“But what we’re seeing in some communities is very few people turning up for the CDP, because there is no financial obligation and it is voluntary, and that’s not good. That’s not healthy.”

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Gnads

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Re: This Aboriginal Disaster
Reply #170 - Jun 9^th, 2024 at 5:52pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 9^th, 2024 at 12:52pm:

Gnads wrote on Jun 9^th, 2024 at 12:36pm:

Nearly $40 billion a year is not just "any assistance" you fool.

And neither does it include the mining royalty payments made to certain Aboriginal groups in the areas where they operate .... that's another tax free wad of cash they get ....

so why hasn't decades & multi $millions of royalty payments in Gove, Groote Eylandt, Weipa, Jabiru, the Pilbara etc. helped traditional Aboriginal people close the GAP?

Because the government like you follows obsolete neoliberal 'invisible hand' market orthodoxy, and hence is committed to maintaining the poverty industry's welfare dependency program, resulting in most of that $40 billion ending up in the pockets of bureaucrats and community "leaders".

Quote:

When is enough enough? What is enough?

When everyone has paid work, with an above-poverty level minimum wage.

Quote:

Seems you are clueless in that regard. Roll Eyes

Mirror time?

There's your biggest wank yet, absolute tossers ideologue salad.

In the hands of Community Leaders? ... well isn't that where it's supposed to go?

Don't they share and look after community?

Proves one thing ... that you have no idea & that you rail against people who tell you, calling them racists, that the "tribal big men" and in places "women in council" take all the money and only share with their closest kin.

So you dopey twat how does that get dealt with? without people being called racists for wanting to audit, impose interventions & the like?

Decades of vast amounts of money, assistance, specific tax payer funded programs & supply of resources ... and where mining occurs decades of royalties without any significant progress in any area to improve housing, health, education & reduction of crime, sexual abuse of minors and domestic violence.

You are a waste of space Manuel Sad Kangaroo.

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Gnads

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Re: This Aboriginal Disaster
Reply #171 - Jun 9^th, 2024 at 5:54pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 9^th, 2024 at 1:23pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Jun 7^th, 2024 at 5:33pm:

Unless there is some other motive that the group of you are unwilling to admit?

They are vicious 'personal responsibility' types who don't want to see resources directed to improving the socio- economic circumstances of marginalized or disadvantaged groups. They even resort to denying the existance of disadvantage.

Trouble is the current system of government-"assistance" (which they despise) is based on an ineffective, wasteful poverty industry aka 'welfare', in lieu of provision of work for all with an above-poverty minimum wage.

They will run rings around you until you understand this.

There's the circle jerk right there ..... you and the Sad marsupial. Grin

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UnSubRocky Gold Member Offline Crocodile Hunter: Origins Posts: 25001 Rockhampton Gender:	Re: This Aboriginal Disaster Reply #172 - Jun 9^th, 2024 at 6:37pm If you were paid $45,000 a year in welfare, would you really work? If your rent was $4,000 a year, would you work?
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Valkie Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16142 Central Coast Gender:	Re: This Aboriginal Disaster Reply #173 - Jun 11^th, 2024 at 5:21pm ALL WELFARE MUST BE STOPPED. You either work or starve. That will quickly fix a lot of problems.
Back to top	I HAVE A DREAM A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM. A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM. SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU IP Logged

thegreatdivide

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Re: This Aboriginal Disaster
Reply #174 - Jun 12^th, 2024 at 12:24pm

Valkie wrote on Jun 11^th, 2024 at 5:21pm:

ALL WELFARE MUST BE STOPPED.

You either work or starve.

That will quickly fix a lot of problems.

Excellent points.

And since democratic governments cannot survive with starvation among citizens, then a Job Guarantee will need to be made law, despite gnads bleating about "circle-jerks".

https://pavlina-tcherneva.net/the-case-for-a-job-guarantee/

The Case for a Job Guarantee

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Frank

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Re: This Aboriginal Disaster
Reply #175 - Jun 12^th, 2024 at 1:33pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 12^th, 2024 at 12:24pm:

Valkie wrote on Jun 11^th, 2024 at 5:21pm:

ALL WELFARE MUST BE STOPPED.

You either work or starve.

That will quickly fix a lot of problems.

Excellent points.

And since democratic governments cannot survive with starvation among citizens, then a Job Guarantee will need to be made law, despite gnads bleating about "circle-jerks".

https://pavlina-tcherneva.net/the-case-for-a-job-guarantee/

The Case for a Job Guarantee

The Australian understands only about one in four “participants” in the federal work-for-the dole scheme are doing any approved work or activities in exchange for fortnightly benefits.

The scheme, called the Commonwealth Development Program, is virtually dormant in many of the 1000 communities where it technically operates.

Indigenous Australians Minister Linda Burney told The Weekend Australian that leaders in remote communities were telling her they wanted the new scheme to have mutual obligations.

“One of the really strong principles of Aboriginal culture is reciprocity. I get the very strong sense that part of the desire for mutual obligations goes to that notion of reciprocity. Of course, the ultimate mutual obligation is real jobs, and you’ve got to turn up to get paid,” Ms Burney said.

“But what we’re seeing in some communities is very few people turning up for the CDP, because there is no financial obligation and it is voluntary, and that’s not good. That’s not healthy.”

Soooo... they all want a job, they just don't want to work. Cry

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thegreatdivide

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Re: This Aboriginal Disaster
Reply #176 - Jun 12^th, 2024 at 1:57pm

Frank wrote on Jun 12^th, 2024 at 1:33pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 12^th, 2024 at 12:24pm:

Valkie wrote on Jun 11^th, 2024 at 5:21pm:

ALL WELFARE MUST BE STOPPED.

You either work or starve.

That will quickly fix a lot of problems.

Excellent points.

And since democratic governments cannot survive with starvation among citizens, then a Job Guarantee will need to be made law, despite gnads bleating about "circle-jerks".

https://pavlina-tcherneva.net/the-case-for-a-job-guarantee/

The Case for a Job Guarantee

The Australian understands only about one in four “participants” in the federal work-for-the dole scheme are doing any approved work or activities in exchange for fortnightly benefits.

A Job Guarantee is NOT a work for the dole scheme.

Do your homework before you spout nonsense from the Australian.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: This Aboriginal Disaster
Reply #177 - Jun 12^th, 2024 at 4:22pm

Well - Sea Women is a Job Guarantee type thing.... albeit one with a good use - the trouble with a 'job guarantee scheme' in I-Solated Places is that there are no Jobs to Guarantee. (If they see a certain type of fish swimming on its own it could be labeled an isolated plaice......)

Reciprocity, you say? Does that mean that a 'Treaty' actually gives benefits all ways and not just one? I'll be buggared...

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Frank

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Re: This Aboriginal Disaster
Reply #178 - Jun 12^th, 2024 at 4:31pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 12^th, 2024 at 1:57pm:

Frank wrote on Jun 12^th, 2024 at 1:33pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 12^th, 2024 at 12:24pm:

Valkie wrote on Jun 11^th, 2024 at 5:21pm:

ALL WELFARE MUST BE STOPPED.

You either work or starve.

That will quickly fix a lot of problems.

Excellent points.

And since democratic governments cannot survive with starvation among citizens, then a Job Guarantee will need to be made law, despite gnads bleating about "circle-jerks".

https://pavlina-tcherneva.net/the-case-for-a-job-guarantee/

The Case for a Job Guarantee

The Australian understands only about one in four “participants” in the federal work-for-the dole scheme are doing any approved work or activities in exchange for fortnightly benefits.

A Job Guarantee is NOT a work for the dole scheme.

Do your homework before you spout nonsense from the Australian.

Well, it is a guaranteed job until you get another job.

It is also training to be job ready: get up on time, get ready, shower, shave, follow instructions, get life skills etc.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: This Aboriginal Disaster
Reply #179 - Jun 12^th, 2024 at 4:51pm

My idea for refugee claimants is that while they wait we put them on a Scheme where they work, learn skills, earn and pay taxes and learn our ways... while helping build infrastructure here - and developing skills they can transport back home if they are rejected.... or use f they remain here ... all processing to be Onshore....

Not sure Islamist bar tender would go over well.... Taliban National Firearms Registry Clerk .....

As for the Wild Bunch who play up ...

We could do the same with our intransigent loafers (not a pair of shoes), including ship them off to Afghanistan or whatever ... all those Hamas supporters - on the boats to Gaza NOW!!

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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