Australian Politics Forum - Russian steamroller totally crushing Ukraine

issuevoter

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Re: Russian steamroller totally crushing Ukraine
Reply #105 - Sep 5^th, 2023 at 11:56am

Putin committed his best troops first. Those left must be getting tired, and the conscripts don't want to be there anyway. When the USSR collapsed, within weeks, the national industries and resources were owned by the men who became olegarchs. Putin made them even richer, but his plan failed and they lost huge amounts of money and international property. Putin has no way out. Win or he's a dead man.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Russian steamroller totally crushing Ukraine
Reply #106 - Sep 5^th, 2023 at 4:35pm

issuevoter wrote on Sep 5^th, 2023 at 11:56am:

Putin committed his best troops first. Those left must be getting tired, and the conscripts don't want to be there anyway. When the USSR collapsed, within weeks, the national industries and resources were owned by the men who became olegarchs. Putin made them even richer, but his plan failed and they lost huge amounts of money and international property. Putin has no way out. Win or he's a dead man.

It's not as simple as that.

Oligarchs don't actually own the money, although they do get to use a lot of it.

Putin invites his friends to be the frontmen (oligarchs) of the cash mountains.

So long as the frontmen remain loyal to Putin and protect him from direct involvement in their dealings, all is well.

However, Putin controls all the cash and can confiscate it at any time (almost always for disloyalty; incompetence, not so much), but, being Russian, falling out with Putin is like falling out of a window - literally.

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issuevoter

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Re: Russian steamroller totally crushing Ukraine
Reply #107 - Sep 5^th, 2023 at 4:53pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 5^th, 2023 at 4:35pm:

issuevoter wrote on Sep 5^th, 2023 at 11:56am:

Putin committed his best troops first. Those left must be getting tired, and the conscripts don't want to be there anyway. When the USSR collapsed, within weeks, the national industries and resources were owned by the men who became olegarchs. Putin made them even richer, but his plan failed and they lost huge amounts of money and international property. Putin has no way out. Win or he's a dead man.

It's not as simple as that.

Oligarchs don't actually own the money, although they do get to use a lot of it.

Putin invites his friends to be the frontmen (oligarchs) of the cash mountains.

So long as the frontmen remain loyal to Putin and protect him from direct involvement in their dealings, all is well.

However, Putin controls all the cash and can confiscate it at any time (almost always for disloyalty; incompetence, not so much), but, being Russian, falling out with Putin is like falling out of a window - literally.

The Olegarchies predate Putin's presidency.

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chimera

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Re: Russian steamroller totally crushing Ukraine
Reply #108 - Sep 5^th, 2023 at 4:55pm

'Russian President Vladimir Putin has reinforced his National Guard with an elite special-forces unit to protect him in case of another rebellion, the British newspaper The Telegraph reported. The National Guard, created by Putin in 2016, has 320,000 men and reports directly to him rather than the Ministry of Defense.

It's headed by Putin's loyal former bodyguard, Viktor Zolotov, and its main functions have included cracking down on anti-government protests'.
Other tyrants have used women guards who would be less likely to rebel. However, many of these now have dead relatives from Putin's war. One bottle of vodka, one bullet...

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Russian steamroller totally crushing Ukraine
Reply #109 - Sep 5^th, 2023 at 5:24pm

issuevoter wrote on Sep 5^th, 2023 at 4:53pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 5^th, 2023 at 4:35pm:

issuevoter wrote on Sep 5^th, 2023 at 11:56am:

Putin committed his best troops first. Those left must be getting tired, and the conscripts don't want to be there anyway. When the USSR collapsed, within weeks, the national industries and resources were owned by the men who became olegarchs. Putin made them even richer, but his plan failed and they lost huge amounts of money and international property. Putin has no way out. Win or he's a dead man.

It's not as simple as that.

Oligarchs don't actually own the money, although they do get to use a lot of it.

Putin invites his friends to be the frontmen (oligarchs) of the cash mountains.

So long as the frontmen remain loyal to Putin and protect him from direct involvement in their dealings, all is well.

However, Putin controls all the cash and can confiscate it at any time (almost always for disloyalty; incompetence, not so much), but, being Russian, falling out with Putin is like falling out of a window - literally.

The Olegarchies predate Putin's presidency.

They do - by Yeltsin - the man who hand-picked Putin to be his successor after Putin did so well in St. Petersburg protecting the mayor.

Who do you think Yeltsin gave the vault keys to?

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chimera Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10913 armidale Gender:	Re: Russian steamroller totally crushing Ukraine Reply #110 - Sep 5^th, 2023 at 5:44pm This is useful to see the movement through the Russian defences. You can expand the detail in the lines being breached in the south. https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/36a7f6a6f5a9448496de641cf64bd375
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issuevoter

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Re: Russian steamroller totally crushing Ukraine
Reply #111 - Sep 5^th, 2023 at 7:52pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 5^th, 2023 at 5:24pm:

issuevoter wrote on Sep 5^th, 2023 at 4:53pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 5^th, 2023 at 4:35pm:

issuevoter wrote on Sep 5^th, 2023 at 11:56am:

Putin committed his best troops first. Those left must be getting tired, and the conscripts don't want to be there anyway. When the USSR collapsed, within weeks, the national industries and resources were owned by the men who became olegarchs. Putin made them even richer, but his plan failed and they lost huge amounts of money and international property. Putin has no way out. Win or he's a dead man.

It's not as simple as that.

Oligarchs don't actually own the money, although they do get to use a lot of it.

Putin invites his friends to be the frontmen (oligarchs) of the cash mountains.

So long as the frontmen remain loyal to Putin and protect him from direct involvement in their dealings, all is well.

However, Putin controls all the cash and can confiscate it at any time (almost always for disloyalty; incompetence, not so much), but, being Russian, falling out with Putin is like falling out of a window - literally.

The Olegarchies predate Putin's presidency.

They do - by Yeltsin - the man who hand-picked Putin to be his successor after Putin did so well in St. Petersburg protecting the mayor.

Who do you think Yeltsin gave the vault keys to?

Please don't patronise me. I have lived throught this era.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Russian steamroller totally crushing Ukraine
Reply #112 - Sep 6^th, 2023 at 7:36am

issuevoter wrote on Sep 5^th, 2023 at 7:52pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 5^th, 2023 at 5:24pm:

issuevoter wrote on Sep 5^th, 2023 at 4:53pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 5^th, 2023 at 4:35pm:

issuevoter wrote on Sep 5^th, 2023 at 11:56am:

Putin committed his best troops first. Those left must be getting tired, and the conscripts don't want to be there anyway. When the USSR collapsed, within weeks, the national industries and resources were owned by the men who became olegarchs. Putin made them even richer, but his plan failed and they lost huge amounts of money and international property. Putin has no way out. Win or he's a dead man.

It's not as simple as that.

Oligarchs don't actually own the money, although they do get to use a lot of it.

Putin invites his friends to be the frontmen (oligarchs) of the cash mountains.

So long as the frontmen remain loyal to Putin and protect him from direct involvement in their dealings, all is well.

However, Putin controls all the cash and can confiscate it at any time (almost always for disloyalty; incompetence, not so much), but, being Russian, falling out with Putin is like falling out of a window - literally.

The Olegarchies predate Putin's presidency.

They do - by Yeltsin - the man who hand-picked Putin to be his successor after Putin did so well in St. Petersburg protecting the mayor.

Who do you think Yeltsin gave the vault keys to?

Please don't patronise me. I have lived throught this era.

The point being, Russian oligarchs are not like Western billionaires. As frontmen for Putin. they exist only at his pleasure.

He can 'fire' them from the oligarchy at any time, or end them.

When one of them offends Putin to the point where he will not forgive him, (which he has publicly stated is primarily for acts of disloyalty), then the oligarch is gone-gone.

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chimera

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Re: Russian steamroller totally crushing Ukraine
Reply #113 - Sep 6^th, 2023 at 7:44am

It's the old tradition of Czars granting wealth and land to boyars. That may be part of Putin's hostility to Kyiv's democracy which cancels Russia's heritage. Czar as 'caesar' is what revs up Russians. Genghiz Khan was one.

'Mongols conquered various principalities in Eastern Europe and began their invasion of Poland and Hungary, by two grandsons of Genghis Khan. Warring European princes realized they had to cooperate in the face of a Mongol invasion, so local wars and conflicts were suspended in parts of central Europe.'

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« Last Edit: Sep 6^th, 2023 at 8:20am by chimera »

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Marla

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Re: Russian steamroller totally crushing Ukraine
Reply #114 - Sep 6^th, 2023 at 12:27pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 5^th, 2023 at 4:35pm:

It's not as simple as that.

Oligarchs don't actually own the money, although they do get to use a lot of it.

Putin invites his friends to be the frontmen (oligarchs) of the cash mountains.

So long as the frontmen remain loyal to Putin and protect him from direct involvement in their dealings, all is well.

However, Putin controls all the cash and can confiscate it at any time (almost always for disloyalty; incompetence, not so much), but, being Russian, falling out with Putin is like falling out of a window - literally.

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I know progress has no patience but something's got to give

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Russian steamroller totally crushing Ukraine
Reply #115 - Sep 8^th, 2023 at 2:32pm

Marla wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 12:27pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 5^th, 2023 at 4:35pm:

It's not as simple as that.

Oligarchs don't actually own the money, although they do get to use a lot of it.

Putin invites his friends to be the frontmen (oligarchs) of the cash mountains.

So long as the frontmen remain loyal to Putin and protect him from direct involvement in their dealings, all is well.

However, Putin controls all the cash and can confiscate it at any time (almost always for disloyalty; incompetence, not so much), but, being Russian, falling out with Putin is like falling out of a window - literally.

https://media.tenor.com/o451yOGthGMAAAAC/wtf-what-the-bugger-are-you-talking-abo...

For the Yankists... In the West - Me got money. Money mine. In Russia - Me got money. Money not mine.

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chimera

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Re: Russian steamroller totally crushing Ukraine
Reply #116 - Sep 14^th, 2023 at 6:50pm

'A Russian pilot fired two missiles towards an RAF surveillance plane after mistakenly believing he had permission to fire.
Following the incident last September, Russia claimed it had been caused by a “technical malfunction” with the UK’s Ministry of Defence publicly accepting their explanation.
However, intercepted communications reveal that one of the Russian pilots believed he had been given permission to target the aircraft following an ambiguous command from a Russian ground station'.

Nukes in Belarus are controlled by Putin, or Lukashenko, not sure, maybe by Sergei the night watchman at the missile-truck depot. He sends texts using the launch console with some odd sorts of icons which flash and start noises in the truck. The map of Europe has symbols all over it too which he tests out.

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issuevoter

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Re: Russian steamroller totally crushing Ukraine
Reply #117 - Sep 17^th, 2023 at 7:07am

If it is a steamroller, it needs spare parts, even defective ones. Russia is looking to poverty striken nations for more men. Syrians, now Cubans. Perhaps Koreans.

But if you look at WW2, and the heroism of the airforces and navies, you have to wonder why those Russian services are so cowardly. They get a few ships damaged and the run away. They get a few planes bombed on the ground and run away to safer distances. Where are the big campaigns they were built for? I can only think they don't really believe in the war.

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chimera Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10913 armidale Gender:	Re: Russian steamroller totally crushing Ukraine Reply #118 - Sep 17^th, 2023 at 9:40am Adolf could get boys to die defending Berlin when the entire country was broken bricks. Vladimir needs foreigners to make ammo and supply reserve troops for cash. But Hitler did the speech-making course and Putin didn't bother.
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issuevoter Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9200 The Great State of Mind Gender:	Re: Russian steamroller totally crushing Ukraine Reply #119 - Sep 18^th, 2023 at 10:56pm By my estimation, Putin has lost one missile frigate, two amphibious assualt ships, one submarine, and at least three thousand tanks. That is just the big stuff. Someone is going to make a killing in scrap metal.
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