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Vote No (Read 4436 times)
UnSubRocky
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Re: Vote No
Reply #135 - Jul 5th, 2023 at 7:45am
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 4th, 2023 at 5:30pm:
All of it is bullshit, Unsub.  First up, you have problems with "Aide to the Civil Power problems and how the military reacts to orders to shoot Australians, then you have problems with understanding the limits of the Government and what it can order the military to do. Then you need to grow up about what your fellow Australians are capable of.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


No, I don't know what the "Aid to the Civil Power" entails. So, I googled a pdf of the article: http://www5.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/AUCrimPCF/1983/2.pdf

Without having read the 5 pages of information related, unless you find that this article does not have relevance to what you are talking about, I can assume at best that the army can be used to prevent large-scale domestic violence issues in a certain region.

And I have witnessed the army being used to conduct this matter, about 23 or 24 years ago in Rockhampton. Can't remember? I can. It was part of the reason why Rockhamptonites started having the white supremacist tag attached to the community. Just recently, the label had been reattached to the community with the vigilante groups going around harassing alleged car thieves.

I have even posted this as a form of unbiased analysis of threatening to use the military against indigenous people:
Quote:
Could you imagine the international outcry we Australians of all ethnicity would face in the world scrutiny, if our army even tried to kill a single indigenous Australia, in the name of public order? Indigenous people all over the country would not just protest. They would riot like crazy.


I am actually surprised that you called "bullshit" on that, Brian. International condemnation would fall upon Australians for allowing this kind of violence to take place. If the army is required to quell rioting by indigenous people, it is obvious that the local police are not equipped to handle something large scale. And even if the army and the police use body camera footage to video document the suppression of violence among indigenous people, internationally, the world will react with accusations of genocide if more than one indigenous person gets killed.

I do not know what kind of perception you have of Australians. However, we Australians are a pretty egalitarian bunch of people. A considerable number of Australian people would side with the underdog getting done over, if it came down to 50/50 justifications of violence conducted by the army/police.
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UnSubRocky
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Re: Vote No
Reply #136 - Jul 5th, 2023 at 7:53am
 
John Smith wrote on Jul 4th, 2023 at 10:11pm:
The only strawman is this continual claim that there are no details.  You have all the details you need about the proposed changes to the constitution.  The crap you're crying about doesn't need the voice to get up for government to legislate it. It can happen regardless.


From memory, the details of the Voice to Parliament are so far 5 pages of websites I can find online. If there is a 100+ pages worth of information about the proposal, I would love for you to direct me to a link.

I have filed bookmarks of about 20 websites regarding the Voice to Parliament. That is out of the 120 relevant VtP websites that I had found available to read. If one of the websites have explicit detail of what the changes will take place, I will let you know.
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Aussie
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Re: Vote No
Reply #137 - Jul 5th, 2023 at 8:03am
 
Setanta wrote on Jul 4th, 2023 at 7:06pm:
Aussie wrote on Jul 4th, 2023 at 4:35pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 4th, 2023 at 2:29pm:
Aussie wrote on Jul 4th, 2023 at 10:50am:
UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 2nd, 2023 at 10:02pm:
Aussie wrote on Jul 2nd, 2023 at 1:54pm:
You have the same rights to a nothing as the Abo does.

Equal to a nothing is a nothing.


WTF is that supposed to mean? No wonder you are not a lawyer.


What is half of nothing?  What is twice nothing?  What is equal to nothing?

The answer numbnuts is.......nothing.


I am aware of the mathematics of multiplying and dividing zero. But, you are one who is divisible by zero. I can't get an answer from you.

I have my rights as an individual. These rights are implicit in the laws of the land of Australia. I abide by them. I do okay. I have the right to do anything I want within the boundaries of Australian law in Australia.


I don't give a flying fu
ck
what you do.  But...if you are here and arguing a point, make sure it makes sense.

You lose SFA if The Voice exists.

There is no-one here who has yet told me what they lose if The Voice exists.


No-one can, there are no details. Strawman and prove the negative.


Garbage.  What details are lacking?
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issuevoter
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Re: Vote No
Reply #138 - Jul 5th, 2023 at 8:05am
 
Bobby. wrote on Jul 4th, 2023 at 7:59pm:
Thanks Belgarion - good video:







49,679 views  Jun 25, 2023
Sky News host Amanda Stoker says the lead advocate on the Yes campaign for the Voice, Thomas Mayo, was recorded saying he expected the Voice to “get its hands” on superannuation policy while talking to independent MP Zoe Daniel.

“The bloke who designed the Voice ... wants a practical veto on super policy because remember, Mr Albanese said it would be ‘a brave government’ that didn't do as the Voice says,” Ms Stoker said.

“That’s not democracy. So, it’s time for the government to come clean. How much power will the Voice have over your retirement savings?

“Teal MPs like Zoe Daniel, as well as Labor, have a lot of explaining to do.”


The minister does not answer the question. Instead, she states what the Voice will not do. Yet the government insists the powers have not been established. The minister implies she knows what those powers will be. Otherwise, she would not be able to say anything. However, the Australia Day exclusion is a downright lie.

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Re: Vote No
Reply #139 - Jul 5th, 2023 at 8:06am
 
Belgarion wrote on Jul 4th, 2023 at 7:41pm:
Aussie wrote on Jul 4th, 2023 at 4:35pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 4th, 2023 at 2:29pm:
Aussie wrote on Jul 4th, 2023 at 10:50am:
UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 2nd, 2023 at 10:02pm:
Aussie wrote on Jul 2nd, 2023 at 1:54pm:
You have the same rights to a nothing as the Abo does.

Equal to a nothing is a nothing.


WTF is that supposed to mean? No wonder you are not a lawyer.


What is half of nothing?  What is twice nothing?  What is equal to nothing?

The answer numbnuts is.......nothing.


I am aware of the mathematics of multiplying and dividing zero. But, you are one who is divisible by zero. I can't get an answer from you.

I have my rights as an individual. These rights are implicit in the laws of the land of Australia. I abide by them. I do okay. I have the right to do anything I want within the boundaries of Australian law in Australia.


I don't give a flying fu
ck
what you do.  But...if you are here and arguing a point, make sure it makes sense.

You lose SFA if The Voice exists.

There is no-one here who has yet told me what they lose if The Voice exists.


This has already been posed in another thread. You must have missed it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq9Xh2kOC-M


Skynews rubbish.  Nothing in that where anything lost is explained.  Just Andrew Bolt text delivered in Andrew Bolt style by a blonde bimbo.
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John Smith
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Re: Vote No
Reply #140 - Jul 5th, 2023 at 8:10am
 
UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 5th, 2023 at 7:53am:
John Smith wrote on Jul 4th, 2023 at 10:11pm:
The only strawman is this continual claim that there are no details.  You have all the details you need about the proposed changes to the constitution.  The crap you're crying about doesn't need the voice to get up for government to legislate it. It can happen regardless.


From memory, the details of the Voice to Parliament are so far 5 pages of websites I can find online. If there is a 100+ pages worth of information about the proposal, I would love for you to direct me to a link.

I have filed bookmarks of about 20 websites regarding the Voice to Parliament. That is out of the 120 relevant VtP websites that I had found available to read. If one of the websites have explicit detail of what the changes will take place, I will let you know.



What 100 pages? There's only one question being asked, "A Proposed Law: to alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice.

Do you approve this proposed alteration?"


that is it. You don't need 100 pages. Everything else is smoke and mirrors used by bigots. All the other scenarios the bigots are scared off can be legislated regardless of whether or not the constitution is amended.
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I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
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UnSubRocky
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Re: Vote No
Reply #141 - Jul 5th, 2023 at 8:17am
 
If it is going to a referendum, then there is more to it than just a few word changes to the constitution.
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issuevoter
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Re: Vote No
Reply #142 - Jul 5th, 2023 at 8:23am
 
Of course, the government does not want to specify the make up and powers of the Voice before the referendum. The more they specify, the less palatable a change to the Constitution becomes to the public. That's a historical no-brainer.

KISS Principle. Keep it simple, stupid. Yes or No, Do you feel sorry the Aboriginals. YES? Oh . . . look what got slipped in while you were feeling sorry.
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« Last Edit: Jul 5th, 2023 at 8:48am by issuevoter »  

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Gnads
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Re: Vote No
Reply #143 - Jul 5th, 2023 at 8:24am
 
Aussie wrote on Jul 4th, 2023 at 4:35pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 4th, 2023 at 2:29pm:
Aussie wrote on Jul 4th, 2023 at 10:50am:
UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 2nd, 2023 at 10:02pm:
Aussie wrote on Jul 2nd, 2023 at 1:54pm:
You have the same rights to a nothing as the Abo does.

Equal to a nothing is a nothing.


WTF is that supposed to mean? No wonder you are not a lawyer.


What is half of nothing?  What is twice nothing?  What is equal to nothing?

The answer numbnuts is.......nothing.


I am aware of the mathematics of multiplying and dividing zero. But, you are one who is divisible by zero. I can't get an answer from you.

I have my rights as an individual. These rights are implicit in the laws of the land of Australia. I abide by them. I do okay. I have the right to do anything I want within the boundaries of Australian law in Australia.


I don't give a flying fu
ck
what you do.  But...if you are here and arguing a point, make sure it makes sense.

You lose SFA if The Voice exists.

There is no-one here who has yet told me what they lose if The Voice exists.



It can exist .... but not in the Constitution.

As to what "they lose" - The rest of Australians will not be represented equally under the Constitution.

It will be a "them & us" -  it's divisive.
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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
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Aussie
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Re: Vote No
Reply #144 - Jul 5th, 2023 at 8:31am
 
Gnads wrote on Jul 5th, 2023 at 8:24am:
Aussie wrote on Jul 4th, 2023 at 4:35pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 4th, 2023 at 2:29pm:
Aussie wrote on Jul 4th, 2023 at 10:50am:
UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 2nd, 2023 at 10:02pm:
Aussie wrote on Jul 2nd, 2023 at 1:54pm:
You have the same rights to a nothing as the Abo does.

Equal to a nothing is a nothing.


WTF is that supposed to mean? No wonder you are not a lawyer.


What is half of nothing?  What is twice nothing?  What is equal to nothing?

The answer numbnuts is.......nothing.


I am aware of the mathematics of multiplying and dividing zero. But, you are one who is divisible by zero. I can't get an answer from you.

I have my rights as an individual. These rights are implicit in the laws of the land of Australia. I abide by them. I do okay. I have the right to do anything I want within the boundaries of Australian law in Australia.


I don't give a flying fu
ck
what you do.  But...if you are here and arguing a point, make sure it makes sense.

You lose SFA if The Voice exists.

There is no-one here who has yet told me what they lose if The Voice exists.



It can exist .... but not in the Constitution.

As to what "they lose" - The rest of Australians will not be represented equally under the Constitution.

It will be a "them & us" -  it's divisive.


They get nothing (beyond recognition as the original inhabitants of this Land from which they were violently dispossessed)....especially representation......'we' get nothing.'  Equal.

I'll try my Israel analogy with you.

You happy for the Jews to given the State of Israel, the land on which it operates and full tooty defence by the West?
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Gnads
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Re: Vote No
Reply #145 - Jul 5th, 2023 at 8:32am
 
John Smith wrote on Jul 5th, 2023 at 8:10am:
UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 5th, 2023 at 7:53am:
John Smith wrote on Jul 4th, 2023 at 10:11pm:
The only strawman is this continual claim that there are no details.  You have all the details you need about the proposed changes to the constitution.  The crap you're crying about doesn't need the voice to get up for government to legislate it. It can happen regardless.


From memory, the details of the Voice to Parliament are so far 5 pages of websites I can find online. If there is a 100+ pages worth of information about the proposal, I would love for you to direct me to a link.

I have filed bookmarks of about 20 websites regarding the Voice to Parliament. That is out of the 120 relevant VtP websites that I had found available to read. If one of the websites have explicit detail of what the changes will take place, I will let you know.



What 100 pages? There's only one question being asked, "A Proposed Law: to alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice.

Do you approve this proposed alteration?"


that is it. You don't need 100 pages. Everything else is smoke and mirrors used by bigots. All the other scenarios the bigots are scared off can be legislated regardless of whether or not the constitution is amended.


One poorly worded question with a sting in it's tail.

It's one thing to recognise ATSI people in the Constitution ... it's completely another to enshrine a body, advisory or not(short on working detail) in the Constitution based on race.

Maybe the referendum should be split into 2 questions?

1. One about recognition -

2. One about the Voice body -

I'd vote 1. yes 2. No
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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
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Gnads
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Re: Vote No
Reply #146 - Jul 5th, 2023 at 8:38am
 
Aussie wrote on Jul 5th, 2023 at 8:31am:
Gnads wrote on Jul 5th, 2023 at 8:24am:
Aussie wrote on Jul 4th, 2023 at 4:35pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 4th, 2023 at 2:29pm:
Aussie wrote on Jul 4th, 2023 at 10:50am:
UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 2nd, 2023 at 10:02pm:
Aussie wrote on Jul 2nd, 2023 at 1:54pm:
You have the same rights to a nothing as the Abo does.

Equal to a nothing is a nothing.


WTF is that supposed to mean? No wonder you are not a lawyer.


What is half of nothing?  What is twice nothing?  What is equal to nothing?

The answer numbnuts is.......nothing.


I am aware of the mathematics of multiplying and dividing zero. But, you are one who is divisible by zero. I can't get an answer from you.

I have my rights as an individual. These rights are implicit in the laws of the land of Australia. I abide by them. I do okay. I have the right to do anything I want within the boundaries of Australian law in Australia.


I don't give a flying fu
ck
what you do.  But...if you are here and arguing a point, make sure it makes sense.

You lose SFA if The Voice exists.

There is no-one here who has yet told me what they lose if The Voice exists.



It can exist .... but not in the Constitution.

As to what "they lose" - The rest of Australians will not be represented equally under the Constitution.

It will be a "them & us" -  it's divisive.


They get nothing (beyond recognition as the original inhabitants of this Land from which they were violently dispossessed)....especially representation......'we' get nothing.'  Equal.

I'll try my Israel analogy with you.

You happy for the Jews to given the State of Israel, the land on which it operates and full tooty defence by the West?


What bullshyte --- even for a shyster like you.

Stick your anti-semite analogy up your keyster.

The Israelis(Jews) have as much right as the Arabs to live there.

They don't need the West to defend their turf from Arabs wanting their annihilation.
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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
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Gnads
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Re: Vote No
Reply #147 - Jul 5th, 2023 at 8:42am
 
Aussie wrote on Jul 5th, 2023 at 8:31am:
Gnads wrote on Jul 5th, 2023 at 8:24am:
Aussie wrote on Jul 4th, 2023 at 4:35pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 4th, 2023 at 2:29pm:
Aussie wrote on Jul 4th, 2023 at 10:50am:
UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 2nd, 2023 at 10:02pm:
Aussie wrote on Jul 2nd, 2023 at 1:54pm:
You have the same rights to a nothing as the Abo does.

Equal to a nothing is a nothing.


WTF is that supposed to mean? No wonder you are not a lawyer.


What is half of nothing?  What is twice nothing?  What is equal to nothing?

The answer numbnuts is.......nothing.


I am aware of the mathematics of multiplying and dividing zero. But, you are one who is divisible by zero. I can't get an answer from you.

I have my rights as an individual. These rights are implicit in the laws of the land of Australia. I abide by them. I do okay. I have the right to do anything I want within the boundaries of Australian law in Australia.


I don't give a flying fu
ck
what you do.  But...if you are here and arguing a point, make sure it makes sense.

You lose SFA if The Voice exists.

There is no-one here who has yet told me what they lose if The Voice exists.



It can exist .... but not in the Constitution.

As to what "they lose" - The rest of Australians will not be represented equally under the Constitution.

It will be a "them & us" -  it's divisive.


They get nothing (beyond recognition as the original inhabitants of this Land from which they were violently dispossessed)....especially representation......'we' get nothing.'  Equal.

I'll try my Israel analogy with you.

You happy for the Jews to given the State of Israel, the land on which it operates and full tooty defence by the West?



They are actually over represented per head of population compared to non Aboriginal Australians. Roll Eyes

And Shyster many of those non Aboriginal Australians aren't white & they're migrants.

You're just a virtue signaling shyster.
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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
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UnSubRocky
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Re: Vote No
Reply #148 - Jul 5th, 2023 at 8:53am
 
issuevoter wrote on Jul 5th, 2023 at 8:23am:
Of course, the government does not want to specify the make up and powers of the Voice before the referendum. The more they specify, the less palatable a change to the Constitution becomes to the public. That's a historical no-brainer.

KISS Principle. Keep it simple, stupid. Yes or No, Do you feel sorry the Aboriginals. YES? Oh . . . look what got slipped in while you were feeling sorry.


The problem is, not many people feel sorry for the indigenous, anymore. They have had decades to turn their lives around. Many indigenous Australians have turned their lives around compared to 30 years ago. Others, still dragging their feet with their responsibilities, have not gotten very far in terms of adopting acceptable standards.

I would not feel sorry for those indigenous Australians who have improved their lives considerably in the last 30 years. I would be proud of them. And I would not feel sorry at all for those that have not improved their lives. In either scenario, there is no need for a Voice to Parliament.
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Belgarion
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Re: Vote No
Reply #149 - Jul 5th, 2023 at 10:26am
 
Aussie wrote on Jul 5th, 2023 at 8:06am:
Skynews rubbish.  Nothing in that where anything lost is explained.  Just Andrew Bolt text delivered in Andrew Bolt style by a blonde bimbo.


Hardly Sky News rubbish.  Forget your ad homs on the presenter and Andrew Bolt and listen to what Mayo is saying..... Demanding compensation from white Australians, demanding a say in government legislation, talking about punishing any politician who opposes these demands.....  Mao is one of the key players in the 'voice' and has the ear of the PM... tell us again how we will not be disadvantaged. Roll Eyes
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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Voltaire.....(possibly)
 
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