Australian Politics Forum - Who IS Aboriginal, who IS indigenous

Frank

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Re: Who IS Aboriginal, who IS indigenous
Reply #105 - Sep 12^th, 2023 at 9:29am

Frank wrote on Sep 12^th, 2023 at 9:26am:

Indigenous Australians and First Nations people from across the globe are being offered ticket discounts of up to $170 under new “Mob Tix” concessions launched by the nation’s elite ballet, musical, arts, cultural and sporting bodies and institutions.

Special mob discounts of up to 80 per cent for Aboriginal, Torres Strait Islander, Maori, Pacific Islanders and other First Nations people have been established in the run-up to the October 14 referendum to enshrine an Indigenous voice advisory body in the Constitution.

No proof of eligibility is required to access the tickets and those who identify as a certain race or ethnic group will have their details kept confidential.

I checked the Opera House website and tickets for B Reserve, normally $130 are selling for $25 as Mobtix.
https://www.sydneyoperahouse.com/mob-tix

Now even I am an Aborigine. Kiss

Opposition frontbencher Bridget McKenzie said “disadvantaged Indigenous Australians are not going to the ballet or the opera or coming from all the way from Wilcannia or Kununurra to the National Gallery. Helping affluent Indigenous people access elite cultural practice will do nothing to close the gap. Australians who go to these events are not the poor and the marginalised,” she said.

She is right. This is craven, oily virtue signalling. Cringe.

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Re: Who IS Aboriginal, who IS indigenous
Reply #106 - Sep 12^th, 2023 at 4:13pm

Frank wrote on Sep 11^th, 2023 at 1:24pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 11^th, 2023 at 1:10pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 1^st, 2023 at 12:02pm:

issuevoter wrote on Sep 1^st, 2023 at 7:45am:

How do mixed blood people identify as Aboriginal but not European? Isn't there something illogical in this? It cannot be by percentage, as many of the most vocal are clearly more European.

I call it Pascoe Syndrome as a psychological construct.

These questions cannot be brushed off as frivolous. There are increasing legallities involved.

If the Voice were made law, could one of these mixed blood people be appointed to the body?

The Voice is about CREATING an Aboriginal ' nation's that never has existed and doesn't yet exist.

As Hobbes well knew, it was being represented in parliament, with its elaborate rituals and ongoing political bargaining, that had gradually fused the English nobility and the gentry into assertive, self-conscious estates, whose collective identity transcended their deep differences.

In his masterpiece, Leviathan (1651), which was published in the same year as the first application of the noun “representative” to parliament, he therefore argued that it was the political process itself, with its unifying symbols, ceremonies and practices, that converts the mass into “the people”.

Instead of the people creating the polity, it was the polity that brought “the people” into being, defining the “who, what and when” that took disparate individuals and through participation in the political system gave them a collective identity.

But nothing ensured the process of constructing a “people” would be a pretty sight – least of all where the politics of difference was involved. Rather, as the subsequent centuries painfully showed, the politics of difference relied on a logic that defined “us” by the exclusion of, and vehement opposition to, “them”. Drenched in grievance, and exploiting it to create group solidarity, ethnically and racially based representation was invariably deeply divisive – as each of the voice’s predecessors, and its overseas counterparts, proved to be.

It is that process Australians are being asked to endorse under the guise of “recognition”: not the acknowledgment of an Indigenous “people”, which – divided as it is by geography, descent, language, location and social class – scarcely exists, but the institutional mechanism by which such a “people” will be given a permanent identity and shaped into a distinct political nation.

The determination of who is and who is not eligible to take part in the voice; the periodic recording of eligibility on public electoral rolls and official voting registers; the repeated rituals of selection; the voice’s own deliberations, and the symbolism that accompanies them: all those will combine to conjure that nation out of whole cloth.

There may, for sure, be disagreements among its members and constituents. But the proposal’s entire point is to replace the many voices of Indigenous Australians with a single voice.

And if the wretched history of ethnic and racial representation has any undeniable lessons, it is that the greater the cleavages within a group, the greater is the attempt to strengthen group solidarity by heightening and hardening the distinction between “us” and “them”.

It is therefore hardly unreasonable to fear that this artificially constructed identity will undermine our shared identity as Australians who deserve mutual respect and decent life chances simply by virtue of equal citizenship.

Nor is it unreasonable to fear that the triumph of the politics of difference will transform this country into a state that attempts to house two increasingly hostile nations within a single political breast.

That would not be recognition; it would be misrecognition. And far from doing no harm, it would corrode our already fragile political fabric. Whether Australians fall into that trap is what the next six weeks will determine.

HENRY ERGAS COLUMNIST

Spot on, as usual.

Very well articulated.

And the fact that successive Australian govts pursued a strong multicultural policy for so many years means we are now defined by our mixed cultural ethnicity.

Irrespective of how we choose to identify...we are all mixed blooded (some more than others ... but the mixing has been taking place ever since 1788).

What we should be discussing is this : Why are Australians suddenly so MIXED UP about all this?

When people are mixed up about what a woman is, or what marriage is, or why Marxism fails, or what the meaning of 'is' is, etc, etc, then they are likely to be mixed up about anything and everything.

What is?

Struggle. Always absolutely never ever.

Do you know what you are, dear boy?

You're a Marxist. You love to struggle ever so.

Thesis, antithesis, synthesis, innit. Who IS Aboriginal?

Why, old boy, you. You're a right first nation Knut, no?

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Frank

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Re: Who IS Aboriginal, who IS indigenous
Reply #107 - Sep 13^th, 2023 at 9:50am

MORE than 100 Queenslanders of Sri Lankan descent have received millions of dollars in concessional loans by falsely claiming they were Aboriginal.
Aborigines in Bundaberg and Hervey Bay have complained that scores of descendants of the Appo family were not entitled to the concessions they had received over the past 30 years.
Family members have obtained Abstudy grants, home loans at 2 to 8 percent, business establishment loans, legal assistance and preferences for university positions and jobs.
Federal Aboriginal Affairs Minister John Herron yesterday said he would look into the issue as a matter of urgency.
``I will be seeking advice from ATSIC, and if the allegations merit an independent inquiry the Director of the Office of Evaluation and Audit will be tasked with a full investigation,'' Senator Herron said.
Some members of the Appo family have made state and national indigenous sporting teams despite not having any Aboriginal heritage. They operate cultural schools for tourists, and some members paint Aboriginal art and sell it commercially.
The issue was brought to the fore on July 21 in the Townsville Magistrates Court, when Allen Keith Appo, 66, of Bundaberg, was charged with possession of undersized and female mud crabs.
Appo claimed in his defence that the Fisheries Act did not apply to him because he was Aboriginal, and therefore he could fish without restriction.
However Department of Primary Industries legal officers researched Appo's genealogy and presented generations of birth, death and marriage certificates showing his heritage was purely Sri Lankan.
Magistrate John Brennan found Appo was not Aboriginal, and fined him $2300 including costs.
Appo was represented by Townsville Aboriginal Legal Aid, who also funded his appeal to the District Court on November 3.
Judge Robert Pack dismissed the appeal, and held that the magistrate was correct in finding that Appo was not Aboriginal.
In Bundaberg on Thursday, Appo said he would appeal to the High Court so long as he could get Aboriginal Legal Aid to fund him. He lives on a valuable 3ha riverside property with a mango and lime orchard.
``Because the Fisheries Department has vast resources, they included one of my cousins to give evidence against me,'' Mr Appo said.
``She said I have no Aboriginal in me. That is only hearsay evidence. I have documented evidence which I presented -- certificates by local people who swear I have Aboriginal blood.
``If this decision holds, my children and their children will be affected because they will not be eligible for Aboriginal programmes.''
In January 1995, artist Kelvin Appo, of Bundaberg, was also caught by fisheries inspectors with undersized and female crabs. He was charged and also used the defence of Aboriginality, but was found guilty because birth certificates showed he did not have Aboriginal blood.
He was fined $2700. Despite that conviction, he has continued to vote in ATSIC elections and has claimed Abstudy grants for his children and sold Aboriginal art.
``I got a housing loan from ATSIC 16 years ago,'' he said.
``It was $57,000 at 2.5 percent and it is now 8 percent.
``Before you get a housing loan from ATSIC you have to have the proper documents stating you are an Aboriginal descendant.
``I had four or five of those to get the house. They actually queried me at the ATSIC elections when I went to vote.
``I have got two brothers and a sister, and my wife and I have five children. All of us and my children went through school on Abstudy.''
When interviewed by The Courier-Mail on Thursday, Mr Appo had five paintings for sale at a public display in Bundaberg, asking between $500 and $700 each.
One Aboriginal member of the family, Julie Appo, and her uncle, Merv Johnson, said it was destructive to local Aboriginal people to see jobs and programme concessions designed specifically for indigenous people going to others who were not entitled to claim them.
``Some of these people hold university positions teaching indigenous culture, and another couple go around schools and teach dance and culture -- yet they have no Aboriginal blood at all,'' she said.
``Employment opportunities offered specifically for ATSI people have been snapped up by these members of the Appo family who are Sinhalese. That deprives a genuine Aboriginal person of getting a job, position, a wage -- and thereby providing something for his children to aspire to.
``This battle has been going on for 30 years, and it is just not right that the ATSIC budget is squandered on people who are neither Aboriginal nor Torres Strait Islander.''
Mr Johnson said Appo family members had voted in ATSIC elections when local people knew they were not eligible.
At a meeting held in Bundaberg on May 6, details were given of the cost of sending one woman student the Aboriginal community says was ineligible to study for a masters degree at Deakin University, Geelong. Four years of study -- including six return airfares a year to Bundaberg, Abstudy, tutor fees and accommodation -- totalled $129,960.
They accuse another Appo family at Nambour of being non-indigenous, yet running dance and cultural courses in schools.
``These programmes are designed to assist ATSI people, to improve our situation,'' Julie Appo said.
``There are a limited number of these opportunities available, and as a group we are missing out.''

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Frank

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Re: Who IS Aboriginal, who IS indigenous
Reply #108 - Sep 13^th, 2023 at 9:57am

One of the plaintiffs who succeeded in prosecuting Andrew Bolt for racial discrimination in 2011 was Larissa Behrendt, who grew up in the white middle class suburb of Gymea, near the Port Hacking waterfront in the Sutherland Shire of Sydney. Larissa became the centre of media attention at one point during the hearings of Bolt’s trial. The ABC program Q&A invited Bess Price, a Northern Territory Aboriginal politician (and mother of now Senator Jacinta Price), to talk about the Howard government’s large-scale “intervention” into domestic violence and child sexual abuse in remote Aboriginal communities. Bess Price had praised Howard’s actions but, watching it at home, Larissa could hardly contain her contempt. Her Twitter protest to one of her contacts at the ABC made Larissa front-page news when she said: “I watched a show where a guy had sex with a horse and I’m sure it was less offensive than Bess Price.”

Her comment was not only something that would now probably rate as hate speech but it also opened up what had been until then a largely unspoken gulf within Aboriginal politics. The activist academic Marcia Langton felt compelled to intervene herself, describing Behrendt’s comments as:

…an exemplar of the wide cultural, moral and increasingly political rift between urban, left-wing, activist Aboriginal women and the bush women who witness the horrors of life in their communities, much of which is arrogantly denied by the former … Behrendt and the other anti-intervention campaign maestros have assumed the role of superior thinkers whose grand education and positions in the metropolis qualify them to heap contempt on the natives of that faraway place where other Australians rarely tread foot and about which they sustain a romantic out-of-date mythological view.[11]

Now, Bess Price is a fully Aboriginal woman, born and raised within the Walpiri tribe in the Central Australian desert. However, neither Larissa nor her parents came from an Aboriginal community, so they couldn’t honestly fulfil all three parts of the Commonwealth’s test for Aboriginality.
https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/aborigines/2023/05/bogus-identity-and-constituti...

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Frank

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Re: Who IS Aboriginal, who IS indigenous
Reply #109 - Sep 13^th, 2023 at 10:02am

Dr Hagan said the widely accepted method test of “descent, self-identification and acceptance” by the Aboriginal community had already been abused to support fraudulent claims.

He said the only real test was for a person to name and prove their links to a tribe and an “apical ancestor” — a tribe’s common ancestor who can be demonstrated to be at the apex of the Aboriginal lineage of a group.

READ MORE: ‘23 detainees claim ‘I’m indigenous’ | High Court rules indigenous people cannot be deported | This split decision raises issues of race and privilege
“The existing three-part test is as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike if it does not specify links to an apical ancestor,’’ he said.

“Anyone can do an internet search on a tribe and spin a good yarn to get around the definition, provided they can convince a gullible Aboriginal leader to say, ‘Yeah, I know him/her’, and then sign off on a confirmation of Aboriginality certificate. Naming a tribe as proof of Aboriginality is no more than a geography lesson.

“An easy test to eliminate deceitful claims to Aboriginality, including those coming from detention centres of late, is to apply the apical ancestor test by going back a minimum of three generations. Ask claimants to do that and you’ll soon put a stop to fraudulent claims.”

Ms Weldon said she had seen widespread fraud by people claiming to be indigenous so they could access Aboriginal-identified government jobs, university scholarships or public housing.

An elder of the Wiradjuri people from central-west NSW, she said “self-identification” by a statutory declaration — despite no evidence of Aboriginal lineage — was often accepted as proof.

“People are self-identifying with no proof, no links to Aboriginal community or culture, by ticking the box and getting statutory declarations signed by a JP,’’ she said. “There are individuals and organisations that are handing them out like lolly paper.”
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/indigenous-anger-over-rise-of-fake-abori...

Today's Aboriginal identity news was brought to you by the letter B:
Bogus, bollocks, bs.

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Frank Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 44187 Gender:	Re: Who IS Aboriginal, who IS indigenous Reply #110 - Sep 18^th, 2023 at 5:13pm
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Frank

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Re: Who IS Aboriginal, who IS indigenous
Reply #111 - Dec 5^th, 2023 at 5:16pm

Indigenous leader Michael Mansell is standing firm in his claim that Senator Jacqui Lambie is not Aboriginal, with the issue now a high-stakes battle before the Australian Human Rights Commission.

Senator Lambie, who claims Aboriginal descent along with 30,000 other Tasmanians, has made a formal complaint alleging Mr Mansell’s attack on her Aboriginality constitutes racial hatred under the federal Racial Discrimination Act.

Mr Mansell, a veteran Aboriginal activist, on Tuesday repeated his claim and challenged Senator Lambie to “publicly lay out her (Aboriginal) bona fides”, including her line of descent.

“I cannot wait for the matter to go before a tribunal or court,” Mr Mansell said. “Or for Senator Lambie to publicly lay out her bona fides. That is all she has to do.
...
The conflict over Aboriginality was a factor in the defeat of the voice referendum in Tasmania, with both CHAC and the groups opposing it fearing the new body would be dominated by their opponents. Uh-oh.....

"I am Bbbwian - and so is my wifey!!!"
"You are not Bbwian - and nor is your wifey!!!"

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 83628 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: Who IS Aboriginal, who IS indigenous Reply #112 - Dec 5^th, 2023 at 7:03pm The majority of us are Indigenous these days - a few are Aboriginal - somewhere between three and four percent.... I am totally underwhelmed by anything Michael Mansell thinks...
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Frank

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Re: Who IS Aboriginal, who IS indigenous
Reply #113 - Dec 5^th, 2023 at 7:15pm

Frank wrote on Dec 5^th, 2023 at 5:16pm:

Indigenous leader Michael Mansell is standing firm in his claim that Senator Jacqui Lambie is not Aboriginal, with the issue now a high-stakes battle before the Australian Human Rights Commission.

Senator Lambie, who claims Aboriginal descent along with 30,000 other Tasmanians, has made a formal complaint alleging Mr Mansell’s attack on her Aboriginality constitutes racial hatred under the federal Racial Discrimination Act.

Mr Mansell, a veteran Aboriginal activist, on Tuesday repeated his claim and challenged Senator Lambie to “publicly lay out her (Aboriginal) bona fides”, including her line of descent.

“I cannot wait for the matter to go before a tribunal or court,” Mr Mansell said. “Or for Senator Lambie to publicly lay out her bona fides. That is all she has to do.
...
The conflict over Aboriginality was a factor in the defeat of the voice referendum in Tasmania, with both CHAC and the groups opposing it fearing the new body would be dominated by their opponents. Uh-oh.....

"I am Bbbwian - and so is my wifey!!!"
"You are not Bbwian - and nor is your wifey!!!"

Is it wacist for an Aborigine to question the Aboriginal descent of an Aborigine or is it only wacist if a white man like Bolt questions Aboriginal descent?

Can an Aborigine BE wacist? What is the term for that? Brown supremacist? Unconscious brown bias and privilege? Shade envy?

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Gnads

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Re: Who IS Aboriginal, who IS indigenous
Reply #114 - Dec 6^th, 2023 at 7:08am

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 18^th, 2023 at 9:56pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 18^th, 2023 at 6:41pm:

This question needs to be clarified so we all have a common, agreed understanding of it. We can't change the constitution without being clear about who is who - and who isn't.

Amazing how she has rewritten her personal history there. There was a time when she refused to have anything to do with IndigenousAboriginal Australians. Of course, all her fans will ignore that inconvenience for their own sakes. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Get it right Bwyan ... Aboriginal.

I'm Indigenous - 4th generation. Grin

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Gnads

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Re: Who IS Aboriginal, who IS indigenous
Reply #115 - Dec 6^th, 2023 at 7:14am

Frank wrote on Sep 13^th, 2023 at 9:50am:

MORE than 100 Queenslanders of Sri Lankan descent have received millions of dollars in concessional loans by falsely claiming they were Aboriginal.
Aborigines in Bundaberg and Hervey Bay have complained that scores of descendants of the Appo family were not entitled to the concessions they had received over the past 30 years.
Family members have obtained Abstudy grants, home loans at 2 to 8 percent, business establishment loans, legal assistance and preferences for university positions and jobs.
Federal Aboriginal Affairs Minister John Herron yesterday said he would look into the issue as a matter of urgency.
``I will be seeking advice from ATSIC, and if the allegations merit an independent inquiry the Director of the Office of Evaluation and Audit will be tasked with a full investigation,'' Senator Herron said.
Some members of the Appo family have made state and national indigenous sporting teams despite not having any Aboriginal heritage. They operate cultural schools for tourists, and some members paint Aboriginal art and sell it commercially.
The issue was brought to the fore on July 21 in the Townsville Magistrates Court, when Allen Keith Appo, 66, of Bundaberg, was charged with possession of undersized and female mud crabs.
Appo claimed in his defence that the Fisheries Act did not apply to him because he was Aboriginal, and therefore he could fish without restriction.
However Department of Primary Industries legal officers researched Appo's genealogy and presented generations of birth, death and marriage certificates showing his heritage was purely Sri Lankan.
Magistrate John Brennan found Appo was not Aboriginal, and fined him $2300 including costs.
Appo was represented by Townsville Aboriginal Legal Aid, who also funded his appeal to the District Court on November 3.
Judge Robert Pack dismissed the appeal, and held that the magistrate was correct in finding that Appo was not Aboriginal.
In Bundaberg on Thursday, Appo said he would appeal to the High Court so long as he could get Aboriginal Legal Aid to fund him. He lives on a valuable 3ha riverside property with a mango and lime orchard.
``Because the Fisheries Department has vast resources, they included one of my cousins to give evidence against me,'' Mr Appo said.
``She said I have no Aboriginal in me. That is only hearsay evidence. I have documented evidence which I presented -- certificates by local people who swear I have Aboriginal blood.
``If this decision holds, my children and their children will be affected because they will not be eligible for Aboriginal programmes.''
In January 1995, artist Kelvin Appo, of Bundaberg, was also caught by fisheries inspectors with undersized and female crabs. He was charged and also used the defence of Aboriginality, but was found guilty because birth certificates showed he did not have Aboriginal blood.
He was fined $2700. Despite that conviction, he has continued to vote in ATSIC elections and has claimed Abstudy grants for his children and sold Aboriginal art.
``I got a housing loan from ATSIC 16 years ago,'' he said.
``It was $57,000 at 2.5 percent and it is now 8 percent.
``Before you get a housing loan from ATSIC you have to have the proper documents stating you are an Aboriginal descendant.
``I had four or five of those to get the house. They actually queried me at the ATSIC elections when I went to vote.
``I have got two brothers and a sister, and my wife and I have five children. All of us and my children went through school on Abstudy.''
When interviewed by The Courier-Mail on Thursday, Mr Appo had five paintings for sale at a public display in Bundaberg, asking between $500 and $700 each.
One Aboriginal member of the family, Julie Appo, and her uncle, Merv Johnson, said it was destructive to local Aboriginal people to see jobs and programme concessions designed specifically for indigenous people going to others who were not entitled to claim them.
``Some of these people hold university positions teaching indigenous culture, and another couple go around schools and teach dance and culture -- yet they have no Aboriginal blood at all,'' she said.
``Employment opportunities offered specifically for ATSI people have been snapped up by these members of the Appo family who are Sinhalese. That deprives a genuine Aboriginal person of getting a job, position, a wage -- and thereby providing something for his children to aspire to.
``This battle has been going on for 30 years, and it is just not right that the ATSIC budget is squandered on people who are neither Aboriginal nor Torres Strait Islander.''
Mr Johnson said Appo family members had voted in ATSIC elections when local people knew they were not eligible.
At a meeting held in Bundaberg on May 6, details were given of the cost of sending one woman student the Aboriginal community says was ineligible to study for a masters degree at Deakin University, Geelong. Four years of study -- including six return airfares a year to Bundaberg, Abstudy, tutor fees and accommodation -- totalled $129,960.
They accuse another Appo family at Nambour of being non-indigenous, yet running dance and cultural courses in schools.
``These programmes are designed to assist ATSI people, to improve our situation,'' Julie Appo said.
``There are a limited number of these opportunities available, and as a group we are missing out.''

And the Appos( known about them for over 50 years.) aren't alone.

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Re: Who IS Aboriginal, who IS indigenous
Reply #116 - Dec 6^th, 2023 at 7:18am

Clearly there is a growing need to establish who is and who isn't an Aboriginal - and then which of those actually needs or is prepared to accept help** to get out of a bad spot. Like the equally stupid implementation of affirmative action, what possible use was there in handing special privilege to already well-heeled chicks, blacks and non-English speakers (opposition to which some of you morons call 'misogyny' and 'racism' using the sheila's tactics again) just for being part of a specified group while starving the rest of any remote chance of a fair and equal opportunity? Throwing money at groups so that the wild party just gets worse is never going to be a solution.

Stealing the right of the people to, at the ballot box, openly and freely express their will about some special standing is never going to help anyone.... only make things worse.

The well-heeled do not need 'help'.... those who will not accept help deserve what they get... they choose their own bed - let them lie in it. Remember Albo said - pre-election - that any 'voice' proposal was utterly dependent upon improvements in certain KPIs on violence, crime, truancy, neglect, abuse, sexual abuse and so forth in communities - then the moment he had his dirty hands on the hot seat on half a mil a year plus all found - that was promptly thrown out the window.... and then to make that worse - he blatantly lied to us. Add to that he condoned the very threat from one 'campaigner' for this voice, that a NO result would end in riots in the streets and Intifada in the Outback, and didn't even tell his pets to back off on that kind of nonsense, meaning he actively encouraged and supported the criminal behaviour of some out there.

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« Last Edit: Dec 6^th, 2023 at 7:28am by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »

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Re: Who IS Aboriginal, who IS indigenous
Reply #117 - Dec 6^th, 2023 at 7:28am

cont.

There are 2 families in my city that are of Ceylonese descent that have been on the same bandwagon for the 51 years I've lived here.

The patriarch of one was even co-running an Aboriginal employment/ labour hire company for a time with offices in Bundy, Gladstone & Rocky.

One of the Bundy Appos was here in the mid 70's as a pro-fisherman..... he endeared himself to all the other pros, raiding their pots & taking undersize & female mud crabs - which he was prosecuted for because his claim that he was Aboriginal was refuted in court because he was of SriLankan(Ceylonese) descent.

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Re: Who IS Aboriginal, who IS indigenous
Reply #118 - Dec 6^th, 2023 at 7:54am

Gotta love those who leap on that band wagon - must be money in it.... well - I guess it's time to bring all in Australia under the same umbrella of rules re handouts and laws etc .... No Special Privileges! In this day and age - why does any Aboriginal 'need' the ability and opportunity to fish and hunt in some 'traditional way' and under different rules from everyone else (except the grifters such as you've outlined here). Why should they be allowed to take endangered species or smaller etc fish that nobody else can take? Most of them fish at the fish and chip shop, or hunt at Macca's and Woolies etc these days .... lined up at the checkouts... and getting into the lady put there at the auto ones to help out or just to watch.... over 'put there to watch them specifically'** ....I know a Woolies lass who copped that BS ..... some of these stores etc need to grow a set and ban people who abuse and insult staff.

Equality, innit?

** That's about as dumb as the sheila I was taking home in the club bus once, and when we hit her street, I asked which house - and she said:- "Why do you want to know that?" Like WTF? I said, well, I'll drop you on the corner then... oh no.. no - it's cold.... as in WTF???

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« Last Edit: Dec 6^th, 2023 at 8:03am by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 83628 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: Who IS Aboriginal, who IS indigenous Reply #119 - Dec 6^th, 2023 at 8:02am Jackie Lambie is suing Mansell over his comments.... this'll be juicy......
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