Australian Politics Forum - abos arent a race

John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 74321 Gender:	Re: abos arent a race Reply #405 - Sep 6^th, 2023 at 11:46am freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 11:24am: I am asking you John. I would be gullible if I believed your assertion that I need to go looking for quotes. Your tapdancing says far more than they do. My telling you to find a quote is not an assertion, it's advice to help you not make a fool of yourself.
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John Smith

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Re: abos arent a race
Reply #406 - Sep 6^th, 2023 at 12:04pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 11:25am:

But here's a point: if you're only 1/8th Aboriginal, should you receive only 1/8th of any Aboriginal benefits?

Given, the example above, where the other 7/8ths of your ancestry turn out to be 'oppressors', why should you receive 8/8ths of the benefits as opposed to just 1/8th?

can you list those benefits?

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: abos arent a race
Reply #407 - Sep 6^th, 2023 at 12:21pm

John Smith wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 12:04pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 11:25am:

But here's a point: if you're only 1/8th Aboriginal, should you receive only 1/8th of any Aboriginal benefits?

Given, the example above, where the other 7/8ths of your ancestry turn out to be 'oppressors', why should you receive 8/8ths of the benefits as opposed to just 1/8th?

can you list those benefits?

Jobs reserved for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders.
Access to financial assistance from native title reparations.
ABStudy.
Tailored Assistance Employment Grants.
Aboriginal Student Start-up Loans.
Housing Loans.
Business Loans.

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freediver

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Re: abos arent a race
Reply #408 - Sep 6^th, 2023 at 12:26pm

John Smith wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 11:46am:

freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 11:24am:

I am asking you John. I would be gullible if I believed your assertion that I need to go looking for quotes. Your tapdancing says far more than they do.

My telling you to find a quote is not an assertion, it's advice to help you not make a fool of yourself. Cheesy

And I would be gullible to take your advice. You still haven't explained why think people should bother proving something that no-one is denying.

freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 11:24am:

John Smith wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 10:57am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 9:22am:

John Smith wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 8:44am:

freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 8:25am:

John Smith wrote on Sep 5^th, 2023 at 8:37pm:

And how would anyone know my education levels?

Because you told everyone that you didn't finish high school.

Do you deny it?

Did I? Can you show that quote?

Pages of this!

Reminds me of my brother's best mate in school. Couldn't wait to turn 15 so he could leave and start his own business - in fruit and veg of all things!

Left the day he turned 15.

Made his first million before he turned 21 and now can't remember what it was like to be poor - because he was never poor - even when he didn't have any money.

My brother says he's worth something around 30 million.

I have no problem with anyone dropping out. My problem is with people making up stories and pretending they have a clue.

Are you accusing Bobby and Lisa of lying about you telling everyone you didn't finish high school?

John?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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John Smith

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Re: abos arent a race
Reply #409 - Sep 6^th, 2023 at 12:31pm

freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 12:26pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 11:46am:

freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 11:24am:

I am asking you John. I would be gullible if I believed your assertion that I need to go looking for quotes. Your tapdancing says far more than they do.

My telling you to find a quote is not an assertion, it's advice to help you not make a fool of yourself. Cheesy

And I would be gullible to take your advice. You still haven't explained why think people should bother proving something that no-one is denying.

freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 11:24am:

John Smith wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 10:57am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 9:22am:

John Smith wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 8:44am:

freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 8:25am:

John Smith wrote on Sep 5^th, 2023 at 8:37pm:

And how would anyone know my education levels?

Because you told everyone that you didn't finish high school.

Do you deny it?

Did I? Can you show that quote?

Pages of this!

Reminds me of my brother's best mate in school. Couldn't wait to turn 15 so he could leave and start his own business - in fruit and veg of all things!

Left the day he turned 15.

Made his first million before he turned 21 and now can't remember what it was like to be poor - because he was never poor - even when he didn't have any money.

My brother says he's worth something around 30 million.

I have no problem with anyone dropping out. My problem is with people making up stories and pretending they have a clue.

Are you accusing Bobby and Lisa of lying about you telling everyone you didn't finish high school?

John?

I'm accusing goober and larry of being absolute cretins

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 74321 Gender:	Re: abos arent a race Reply #410 - Sep 6^th, 2023 at 12:32pm freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 12:26pm: And I would be gullible to take your advice asking people to back there claims is gullible now? no wonder this site attracts all the lunatics
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freediver

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Re: abos arent a race
Reply #411 - Sep 6^th, 2023 at 12:48pm

John Smith wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 12:31pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 12:26pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 11:46am:

freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 11:24am:

I am asking you John. I would be gullible if I believed your assertion that I need to go looking for quotes. Your tapdancing says far more than they do.

My telling you to find a quote is not an assertion, it's advice to help you not make a fool of yourself. Cheesy

And I would be gullible to take your advice. You still haven't explained why think people should bother proving something that no-one is denying.

freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 11:24am:

John Smith wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 10:57am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 9:22am:

John Smith wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 8:44am:

freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 8:25am:

John Smith wrote on Sep 5^th, 2023 at 8:37pm:

And how would anyone know my education levels?

Because you told everyone that you didn't finish high school.

Do you deny it?

Did I? Can you show that quote?

Pages of this!

Reminds me of my brother's best mate in school. Couldn't wait to turn 15 so he could leave and start his own business - in fruit and veg of all things!

Left the day he turned 15.

Made his first million before he turned 21 and now can't remember what it was like to be poor - because he was never poor - even when he didn't have any money.

My brother says he's worth something around 30 million.

I have no problem with anyone dropping out. My problem is with people making up stories and pretending they have a clue.

Are you accusing Bobby and Lisa of lying about you telling everyone you didn't finish high school?

John?

I'm accusing goober and larry of being absolute cretins

Cretins because they are telling the truth?

Quote:

asking people to back there claims is gullible now?

Sure, if no-one disagrees with the claim and the only person 'recommending' I bother didn't even finish high school.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Frank

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Re: abos arent a race
Reply #412 - Sep 6^th, 2023 at 1:36pm

Dnarever wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 11:15am:

Frank wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 11:07am:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 10:11am:

freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 9:53am:

Quote:

That would mean that they are not entitled to a mention in their constitution either ?

Would you like to elaborate on this sense of entitlement you are projecting onto others?

The argument put in the topic is that Aboriginals are not entitled to constitutional consideration because they are to some extent a mixed people not a race.

Most nationalities are mixed people. Does it not follow that these other people if judged to the same standard would also not be entitled to the same ?

...
OH and by 20th century standards Aboriginals are indeed defined as a race.

So then, should we have a Voice for Indians, Chinese, Arabs, Jews, Africans etc?

If your your great great grandfather came to the Goldfields from China/Ireland/Germany/Canada in the 19th century but since then all your forebears were born here - are you still Chinese/Irish/German/Canadian?

Do you run a course on completely missing the point ?

Any and all the people with those national backgrounds would have a solid claim if they were residents of Australia thousands of years prior to settlement.

Aborigines were NOT 'residents of Australia' for thousands of years. At best, they might have a claim to come tribal territory their direct ancestors have continually occupied before 1788. None of them have a claim to Australia or even to any other tribe's territory.

But most of them are not of a single tribe but the product of intermarriage between various Aboriginal tribes and a great variety of non-Abiriginal immigrants. Many of them just ax much connection to certain part as of Brirain, Ireland, Eurooe or Asia as to any particular tribal area in Australia.

They have no special claim for Australia. If they were to have a Voice it would be in local government that covers their tribal territories. Beyond that Aborigines have no valid claim. No Gadigal Aborigines can speak on behalf of the Yorta Yorta, not least because none of the hundreds of clans and tribes hax ever had a treaty with any other tribe of clan.

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John Smith

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Re: abos arent a race
Reply #413 - Sep 6^th, 2023 at 1:52pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 12:21pm:

Jobs reserved for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders

whats 1/8th of that?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 12:21pm:

Access to financial assistance from native title reparations.

Thats up to the aboriginal groups responsible for those reparations to decide if someone qualifies.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 12:21pm:

ABStudy.

no different to AUStudy

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 12:21pm:

Tailored Assistance Employment Grants.

there are tailored employment grants for all sorts of long term unemployed, be they aboriginal or not

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 12:21pm:

Aboriginal Student Start-up Loans.

also available to non aboriginals

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 12:21pm:

Housing Loans.
Business Loans.

same as the student loans. You need to qualify for the loan and then make repayments.

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I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Frank Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 45208 Gender:	Re: abos arent a race Reply #414 - Sep 6^th, 2023 at 1:58pm So nuffin' special about Aborigines, they get what everyone else gets.
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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 74321 Gender:	Re: abos arent a race Reply #415 - Sep 6^th, 2023 at 2:10pm freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 12:48pm: Cretins because they are telling the truth? More likely they were born cretins and just stayed that way
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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 74321 Gender:	Re: abos arent a race Reply #416 - Sep 6^th, 2023 at 2:10pm Frank wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 1:58pm: So nuffin' special about Aborigines, they get what everyone else gets. pretty much
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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 74321 Gender:	Re: abos arent a race Reply #417 - Sep 6^th, 2023 at 2:12pm freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 12:48pm: Sure, if no-one disagrees with the claim and the only person 'recommending' I bother didn't even finish high school. Are you vying for bobbys award of village idiot?
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freediver

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Re: abos arent a race
Reply #418 - Sep 6^th, 2023 at 2:31pm

John Smith wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 2:10pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 12:48pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 12:31pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 12:26pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 11:46am:

freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 11:24am:

I am asking you John. I would be gullible if I believed your assertion that I need to go looking for quotes. Your tapdancing says far more than they do.

My telling you to find a quote is not an assertion, it's advice to help you not make a fool of yourself. Cheesy

And I would be gullible to take your advice. You still haven't explained why think people should bother proving something that no-one is denying.

freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 11:24am:

John Smith wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 10:57am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 9:22am:

John Smith wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 8:44am:

freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 8:25am:

John Smith wrote on Sep 5^th, 2023 at 8:37pm:

And how would anyone know my education levels?

Because you told everyone that you didn't finish high school.

Do you deny it?

Did I? Can you show that quote?

Pages of this!

Reminds me of my brother's best mate in school. Couldn't wait to turn 15 so he could leave and start his own business - in fruit and veg of all things!

Left the day he turned 15.

Made his first million before he turned 21 and now can't remember what it was like to be poor - because he was never poor - even when he didn't have any money.

My brother says he's worth something around 30 million.

I have no problem with anyone dropping out. My problem is with people making up stories and pretending they have a clue.

Are you accusing Bobby and Lisa of lying about you telling everyone you didn't finish high school?

John?

I'm accusing goober and larry of being absolute cretins

Cretins because they are telling the truth?

More likely they were born cretins and just stayed that way

Why are you now trying to make an issue of it? Is it because they are telling lies about you announcing that you did not finish high school, or because you don't like them telling the truth about it?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: abos arent a race
Reply #419 - Sep 6^th, 2023 at 2:35pm

John Smith wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 1:52pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 12:21pm:

Jobs reserved for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders

whats 1/8th of that?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 12:21pm:

Access to financial assistance from native title reparations.

Thats up to the aboriginal groups responsible for those reparations to decide if someone qualifies.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 12:21pm:

ABStudy.

no different to AUStudy

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 12:21pm:

Tailored Assistance Employment Grants.

there are tailored employment grants for all sorts of long term unemployed, be they aboriginal or not

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 12:21pm:

Aboriginal Student Start-up Loans.

also available to non aboriginals

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 6^th, 2023 at 12:21pm:

Housing Loans.
Business Loans.

same as the student loans. You need to qualify for the loan and then make repayments.

The point to their being available is to provide support and incentives for Aboriginal peoples above what they would receive if they chose to apply for assistance as an Australian citizen.

Assistance for Aboriginal peoples is considerably more generous than for non-Aboriginals, hence why there is a problem with people fraudulently claiming Aboriginality on applications.

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