Australian Politics Forum - abos arent a race

MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 12206 Gender:	Re: abos arent a race Reply #45 - Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:26pm What is apparent is that 60,000 years is not long enough for an isolated hominin group to speciate or sub-speciate.
Back to top	IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48856 At my desk.	Re: abos arent a race Reply #46 - Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:27pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:26pm: What is apparent is that 60,000 years is not long enough for an isolated group to speciate or sub-speciate. What makes you think that?
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged

MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 12206 Gender:	Re: abos arent a race Reply #47 - Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:27pm freediver wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:27pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:26pm: What is apparent is that 60,000 years is not long enough for an isolated group to speciate or sub-speciate. What makes you think that? Fertile offspring.
Back to top	IP Logged

Lisa Jones

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 39047
Sydney
Gender: female

Re: abos arent a race
Reply #48 - Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:28pm

JC Denton wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:15pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:11pm:

To claim to be 'Aboriginal' (or from any group) by ancestry, where that one ancestor is 2 or 3 times removed, is a statement of socio-cultural affinity, not a reference to exact DNA alignment with full-blood aboriginal DNA.

but sometimes they have absolutely no aboriginal ancestors at all

you can still be recognised as aboriginal with no ancestry, as long as you receive community recognition etc

so aboriginals are definitionally less a race now (or not a race at all), but some sort of social club

Thank you! So let’s consider this scenario:

1. 1 guy - no Aboriginal in him. He’s a 100% English ancestry Aussie.

Is he English or Aussie?

2. The guy in 1. has heaps of mates who are 1/4 Aboriginal and 3/4 English ancestry Aussies.

Are these mates Aboriginal, English or Aussie?

Back to top

If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

IP Logged

MeisterEckhart

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 12206
Gender: male

Re: abos arent a race
Reply #49 - Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:31pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:28pm:

JC Denton wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:15pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:11pm:

To claim to be 'Aboriginal' (or from any group) by ancestry, where that one ancestor is 2 or 3 times removed, is a statement of socio-cultural affinity, not a reference to exact DNA alignment with full-blood aboriginal DNA.

but sometimes they have absolutely no aboriginal ancestors at all

you can still be recognised as aboriginal with no ancestry, as long as you receive community recognition etc

so aboriginals are definitionally less a race now (or not a race at all), but some sort of social club

Thank you! So let’s consider this scenario:

1. 1 guy - no Aboriginal in him. He’s a 100% English ancestry Aussie.

Is he English or Aussie?

2. The guy in 1. has heaps of mates who are 1/4 Aboriginal and 3/4 English ancestry Aussies.

Are these mates Aboriginal, English or Aussie?

What do you mean by 'English' - a race? The islands of Britain were colonised by multiple peoples over tens of thousands of years.

Back to top

IP Logged

Bobby.

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 103545
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: abos arent a race
Reply #50 - Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:31pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:26pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:24pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 7:53am:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 5:21am:

Abbos came from India about 60,000 years ago.

Ahh so Abos are really just a bunch of wogs from India! 👌

That's right - they used to be curry munchers.

Before they invented curry!!

Homo Sapiens have been using herbs and spices in cooking for 500,000 years or more.

Back to top

IP Logged

Lisa Jones

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 39047
Sydney
Gender: female

Re: abos arent a race
Reply #51 - Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:32pm

freediver wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:26pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:19pm:

It has only been a few decades - with the mapping of the human genome - and the popularity of DNA ancestry, that the notion of race has been debunked as meaningless except as a reference to cultural/social/religious differences.

I watched a video of someone who thought he was 'pure' Han Chinese - until he received his DNA analysis results. Turns out he was likely 10% Korean.

He was not happy! Or 不开心 .

If DNA has debunked the existence of race, how is it possible to use DNA to identify a person's racial ancestry?

Also, did you know that there are significant amounts of human DNA that are only present in people originating from outside of Africa?[/highlight]

Anyone care to answer this question?

Back to top

If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

IP Logged

MeisterEckhart

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 12206
Gender: male

Re: abos arent a race
Reply #52 - Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:34pm

freediver wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:26pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:19pm:

It has only been a few decades - with the mapping of the human genome - and the popularity of DNA ancestry, that the notion of race has been debunked as meaningless except as a reference to cultural/social/religious differences.

I watched a video of someone who thought he was 'pure' Han Chinese - until he received his DNA analysis results. Turns out he was likely 10% Korean.

He was not happy! Or 不开心 .

If DNA has debunked the existence of race, how is it possible to use DNA to identify a person's racial ancestry?

Also, did you know that there are significant amounts of human DNA that are only present in people originating from outside of Africa?

DNA analysis places ancestors geographically, not racially.

Back to top

IP Logged

MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 12206 Gender:	Re: abos arent a race Reply #53 - Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:41pm freediver wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:26pm: Also, did you know that there are significant amounts of human DNA that are only present in people originating from outside of Africa? Yes, DNA commonly mutates along certain points the longer the bearing group is isolated from others.
Back to top	IP Logged

Brian Ross

Gold Member

Offline

Representative of me

Posts: 41108

Re: abos arent a race
Reply #54 - Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:44pm

freediver wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:26pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:19pm:

It has only been a few decades - with the mapping of the human genome - and the popularity of DNA ancestry, that the notion of race has been debunked as meaningless except as a reference to cultural/social/religious differences.

I watched a video of someone who thought he was 'pure' Han Chinese - until he received his DNA analysis results. Turns out he was likely 10% Korean.

He was not happy! Or 不开心 .

If DNA has debunked the existence of race, how is it possible to use DNA to identify a person's racial ancestry?

Through their ancestry. There is no reliable way for Genetics to determine a person's "Race" except through their ancestral origins (ie, they come from Africa therefore they must be African). It is a piece of DNA slight-of-hand which fools most people. It is discovered only by digging and questioning the results when they are presented.

Back to top

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 48856
At my desk.

Re: abos arent a race
Reply #55 - Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:45pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:27pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:27pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:26pm:

What is apparent is that 60,000 years is not long enough for an isolated group to speciate or sub-speciate.

What makes you think that?

Fertile offspring.

So your logic is that it is not possible to subspeciate in 60000 years because you are aware of one occasion in which it failed to happen in that time frame?

Not only are you wrong, you cannot even explain your own logic.

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

Grappler Truth Teller Feller

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 84012
Proud pre-1850's NO Voter
Gender: male

Re: abos arent a race
Reply #56 - Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:45pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:44pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:26pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:19pm:

It has only been a few decades - with the mapping of the human genome - and the popularity of DNA ancestry, that the notion of race has been debunked as meaningless except as a reference to cultural/social/religious differences.

I watched a video of someone who thought he was 'pure' Han Chinese - until he received his DNA analysis results. Turns out he was likely 10% Korean.

He was not happy! Or 不开心 .

If DNA has debunked the existence of race, how is it possible to use DNA to identify a person's racial ancestry?

Through their ancestry. There is no reliable way for Genetics to determine a person's "Race" except through their ancestral origins (ie, they come from Africa therefore they must be African). It is a piece of DNA slight-of-hand which fools most people. It is discovered only by digging and questioning the results when they are presented.

So clearly Abos aren't a race ............. easy as pie.... ergo - no racism against them...

Back to top

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

IP Logged

Grappler Truth Teller Feller

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 84012
Proud pre-1850's NO Voter
Gender: male

Re: abos arent a race
Reply #57 - Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:46pm

freediver wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:45pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:27pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:27pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:26pm:

What is apparent is that 60,000 years is not long enough for an isolated group to speciate or sub-speciate.

What makes you think that?

Fertile offspring.

So your logic is that it is not possible to subspeciate in 60000 years because you are aware of one occasion in which it failed to happen in that time frame?

Galapagos ................ relentless in-breeding........ m-m-m-m-ade them in-t-t--to Newts!! Got better with an infusion of various genes..... damned near rooted it out of them ... but r-r-eeer-relapses are n-n-n-n-ot un-c-c-ommon!

A self-made Race!! That saves everyone else a lot of responsibility ..................

Back to top

« Last Edit: Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:55pm by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 48856
At my desk.

Re: abos arent a race
Reply #58 - Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:48pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:44pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:26pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:19pm:

It has only been a few decades - with the mapping of the human genome - and the popularity of DNA ancestry, that the notion of race has been debunked as meaningless except as a reference to cultural/social/religious differences.

I watched a video of someone who thought he was 'pure' Han Chinese - until he received his DNA analysis results. Turns out he was likely 10% Korean.

He was not happy! Or 不开心 .

If DNA has debunked the existence of race, how is it possible to use DNA to identify a person's racial ancestry?

Through their ancestry. There is no reliable way for Genetics to determine a person's "Race" except through their ancestral origins (ie, they come from Africa therefore they must be African). It is a piece of DNA slight-of-hand which fools most people. It is discovered only by digging and questioning the results when they are presented.

The slight of hand is entirely yours. You are attempting to say that they cheat at identifying race because, low and behold, race is indistinguishable from ancestral origin.

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

Brian Ross

Gold Member

Offline

Representative of me

Posts: 41108

Re: abos arent a race
Reply #59 - Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:49pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:45pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:44pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:26pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:19pm:

It has only been a few decades - with the mapping of the human genome - and the popularity of DNA ancestry, that the notion of race has been debunked as meaningless except as a reference to cultural/social/religious differences.

I watched a video of someone who thought he was 'pure' Han Chinese - until he received his DNA analysis results. Turns out he was likely 10% Korean.

He was not happy! Or 不开心 .

If DNA has debunked the existence of race, how is it possible to use DNA to identify a person's racial ancestry?

Through their ancestry. There is no reliable way for Genetics to determine a person's "Race" except through their ancestral origins (ie, they come from Africa therefore they must be African). It is a piece of DNA slight-of-hand which fools most people. It is discovered only by digging and questioning the results when they are presented.

So clearly Abos aren't a race ............. easy as pie.... ergo - no racism against them...

Tell that to the Racists who do denigrate and mistreat them at every step. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Back to top

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

IP Logged