Australian Politics Forum - abos arent a race

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 48856
At my desk.

Re: abos arent a race
Reply #60 - Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:50pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:41pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:26pm:

Also, did you know that there are significant amounts of human DNA that are only present in people originating from outside of Africa?

Yes, DNA commonly mutates along certain points the longer the bearing group is isolated from others.

The DNA in question is present in all modern humans outside of Africa, but the mutations occurred prior to modern humans leaving Africa. It is a binary relationship, not a gradual accumulation.

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 48856
At my desk.

Re: abos arent a race
Reply #61 - Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:51pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:46pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:45pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:27pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:27pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:26pm:

What is apparent is that 60,000 years is not long enough for an isolated group to speciate or sub-speciate.

What makes you think that?

Fertile offspring.

So your logic is that it is not possible to subspeciate in 60000 years because you are aware of one occasion in which it failed to happen in that time frame?

Galapagos ................

Can you use that word in a sentence Graps?

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

Brian Ross

Gold Member

Offline

Representative of me

Posts: 41108

Re: abos arent a race
Reply #62 - Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:51pm

freediver wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:48pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:44pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:26pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:19pm:

It has only been a few decades - with the mapping of the human genome - and the popularity of DNA ancestry, that the notion of race has been debunked as meaningless except as a reference to cultural/social/religious differences.

I watched a video of someone who thought he was 'pure' Han Chinese - until he received his DNA analysis results. Turns out he was likely 10% Korean.

He was not happy! Or 不开心 .

If DNA has debunked the existence of race, how is it possible to use DNA to identify a person's racial ancestry?

Through their ancestry. There is no reliable way for Genetics to determine a person's "Race" except through their ancestral origins (ie, they come from Africa therefore they must be African). It is a piece of DNA slight-of-hand which fools most people. It is discovered only by digging and questioning the results when they are presented.

The slight of hand is entirely yours. You are attempting to say that they cheat at identifying race because, low and behold, race is indistinguishable from ancestral origin.

So, a European living in Africa becomes, hey presto! An African with African ancestry? Freediver you really are stupid. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Back to top

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 48856
At my desk.

Re: abos arent a race
Reply #63 - Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:52pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:34pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:26pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:19pm:

It has only been a few decades - with the mapping of the human genome - and the popularity of DNA ancestry, that the notion of race has been debunked as meaningless except as a reference to cultural/social/religious differences.

I watched a video of someone who thought he was 'pure' Han Chinese - until he received his DNA analysis results. Turns out he was likely 10% Korean.

He was not happy! Or 不开心 .

If DNA has debunked the existence of race, how is it possible to use DNA to identify a person's racial ancestry?

Also, did you know that there are significant amounts of human DNA that are only present in people originating from outside of Africa?

DNA analysis places ancestors geographically, not racially.

Another slight of hand. What is race, other than geographic origin?

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

Bias_2012

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 10766
Gender: male

Re: abos arent a race
Reply #64 - Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:52pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 12:52pm:

Bias_2012 wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 12:40pm:

Albosqueaky thinks Abos are a race. He's holding a referendum to prove it

Brian Ross doesn't think they are a race, he said all humans are the same, that there are no races ... yet he calls us racist if we talk about them. How can anyone be racist if there are no races?

It gets a little confusing at times

Oh I know. I’m getting there.

Very soon you’ll find that those advocating for YES will finally wake up to the ruse of a vile Labor Party Prime Minister who is pretending to be a caring working class man who values the environment and Aborigines. Albo is a fraud! The sooner we ALL wake up to this the better. The guy is the exact opposite of what he claims. Many left wingers who voted him
in are ever so slowly waking up to this.

Has anyone heard the blooming fool talk about The Voice as being about nation building? It’s not! It’s the exact opposite! It’s nation destroying! We’re fighting each other. Aborigines are fighting Aborigines. Non Aborigines are fighting non Aborigines.

Does anyone remember the blatant lies he’s told wrt to his pro environment policies which would help Australia make a stand against Liberal Party policy? Take a look at the coal mines Labor is approving left right and centre AND Labor has pushed to override previous legislation so as to allow the biggest polluters of the current globe to bury their nuclear waste in Australia. And the regions Albo has offered up are close to waterways.

My apologies to all for going off topic but you know.... I’m farkkkkimg angry at how dumb Australia is. What has happened to make so many Australians seriously naive, gullible and stupid??

In all conscience, I can't vote "Yes", because I'd be complicit in causing massive division between groups in Australia if I did. If as Brian Ross says, "We are all genetically the same ", then why in the world are we having that divisive referendum?

It's hard at the best of times to figure out what goes on in Laborites heads. This time it's just impossible to figure out what they're thinking. I'm sure the "No" vote will get up and it will be another failed referendum ... just a waste of millions of dollars, money that would be better spent on pot holed rural roads. The AEC wants me to drive 24 miles on crappy roads to vote, and 24 miles return trip, 48 miles total. The same with a postal vote

Abos will be spared long distances like that, they already get the privilege of just walking a short distance to a mobile polling booth in the north, every election. In that respect, they are more privileged than I am, or any other bushie

Back to top

Our Lives Are Governed By The Feast & Famine Variable

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 48856
At my desk.

Re: abos arent a race
Reply #65 - Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:53pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:51pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:48pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:44pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:26pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:19pm:

It has only been a few decades - with the mapping of the human genome - and the popularity of DNA ancestry, that the notion of race has been debunked as meaningless except as a reference to cultural/social/religious differences.

I watched a video of someone who thought he was 'pure' Han Chinese - until he received his DNA analysis results. Turns out he was likely 10% Korean.

He was not happy! Or 不开心 .

If DNA has debunked the existence of race, how is it possible to use DNA to identify a person's racial ancestry?

Through their ancestry. There is no reliable way for Genetics to determine a person's "Race" except through their ancestral origins (ie, they come from Africa therefore they must be African). It is a piece of DNA slight-of-hand which fools most people. It is discovered only by digging and questioning the results when they are presented.

The slight of hand is entirely yours. You are attempting to say that they cheat at identifying race because, low and behold, race is indistinguishable from ancestral origin.

So, a European living in Africa becomes, hey presto! An African with African ancestry? Freediver you really are stupid. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

No. Where on earth did you get that from?

Perhaps instead of me guessing at the logic you are using, then you failing to comprehend my explanation of your own logic, you should attempt to explain yourself?

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 12644
Gender: male

Re: abos arent a race
Reply #66 - Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:56pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:19pm:

I watched a video of someone who thought he was 'pure' Han Chinese - until he received his DNA analysis results. Turns out he was likely 10% Korean.

He was not happy! Or 不开心 .

Ah...so Han Chinese are racist.
Unlike Ray Martin who was pleased when he found out he had some aboriginal ancestry.

You lot having fun?

Noel Pearson (in his Boyer lectures) claimed affinity with the human race first, Oz and Abo second and third.

It's a pity he is caught up in the Voice imbroglio, because he does support a Job Guarantee - which has slipped under the radar as the means to close the gap.

Back to top

IP Logged

Grappler Truth Teller Feller

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 84012
Proud pre-1850's NO Voter
Gender: male

Re: abos arent a race
Reply #67 - Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:57pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:49pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:45pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:44pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:26pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:19pm:

It has only been a few decades - with the mapping of the human genome - and the popularity of DNA ancestry, that the notion of race has been debunked as meaningless except as a reference to cultural/social/religious differences.

I watched a video of someone who thought he was 'pure' Han Chinese - until he received his DNA analysis results. Turns out he was likely 10% Korean.

He was not happy! Or 不开心 .

If DNA has debunked the existence of race, how is it possible to use DNA to identify a person's racial ancestry?

Through their ancestry. There is no reliable way for Genetics to determine a person's "Race" except through their ancestral origins (ie, they come from Africa therefore they must be African). It is a piece of DNA slight-of-hand which fools most people. It is discovered only by digging and questioning the results when they are presented.

So clearly Abos aren't a race ............. easy as pie.... ergo - no racism against them...

Tell that to the Racists who do denigrate and mistreat them at every step. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

That's not denigration and mistreatment - that's criticising them for their own wrongdoings... which they are not man enough to own up to...

Back to top

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 12644
Gender: male

Re: abos arent a race
Reply #68 - Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 2:12pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:57pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:49pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:45pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:44pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:26pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:19pm:

It has only been a few decades - with the mapping of the human genome - and the popularity of DNA ancestry, that the notion of race has been debunked as meaningless except as a reference to cultural/social/religious differences.

I watched a video of someone who thought he was 'pure' Han Chinese - until he received his DNA analysis results. Turns out he was likely 10% Korean.

He was not happy! Or 不开心 .

If DNA has debunked the existence of race, how is it possible to use DNA to identify a person's racial ancestry?

Through their ancestry. There is no reliable way for Genetics to determine a person's "Race" except through their ancestral origins (ie, they come from Africa therefore they must be African). It is a piece of DNA slight-of-hand which fools most people. It is discovered only by digging and questioning the results when they are presented.

So clearly Abos aren't a race ............. easy as pie.... ergo - no racism against them...

Tell that to the Racists who do denigrate and mistreat them at every step. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

That's not denigration and mistreatment - that's criticising them for their own wrongdoings... which they are not man enough to own up to...

"wrongdoings" - including being jobless and homeless.

Your blind, survival of the fittest filth on full display, as usual.

Back to top

IP Logged

Frank

Gold Member

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 45170
Gender: male

Re: abos arent a race
Reply #69 - Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 2:24pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:44pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:26pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:19pm:

It has only been a few decades - with the mapping of the human genome - and the popularity of DNA ancestry, that the notion of race has been debunked as meaningless except as a reference to cultural/social/religious differences.

I watched a video of someone who thought he was 'pure' Han Chinese - until he received his DNA analysis results. Turns out he was likely 10% Korean.

He was not happy! Or 不开心 .

If DNA has debunked the existence of race, how is it possible to use DNA to identify a person's racial ancestry?

Through their ancestry. There is no reliable way for Genetics to determine a person's "Race" except through their ancestral origins (ie, they come from Africa therefore they must be African). It is a piece of DNA slight-of-hand which fools most people. It is discovered only by digging and questioning the results when they are presented.

What is the difference between race and ancestral origins?

The difference between blacks and whites is their ancestral origins - one has white ancestors the other black ones.

It's not random, you know.

Back to top

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

IP Logged

MeisterEckhart

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 12206
Gender: male

Re: abos arent a race
Reply #70 - Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 2:32pm

freediver wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:45pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:27pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:27pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:26pm:

What is apparent is that 60,000 years is not long enough for an isolated group to speciate or sub-speciate.

What makes you think that?

Fertile offspring.

So your logic is that it is not possible to subspeciate in 60000 years because you are aware of one occasion in which it failed to happen in that time frame?

Not only are you wrong, you cannot even explain your own logic.

No. My logic is that 60000 years does not guarantee speciation because multiple Aboriginal groups - as separate from themselves as non-Australian groups - did not speciate.

Back to top

IP Logged

MeisterEckhart

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 12206
Gender: male

Re: abos arent a race
Reply #71 - Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 2:40pm

freediver wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:50pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:41pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:26pm:

Also, did you know that there are significant amounts of human DNA that are only present in people originating from outside of Africa?

Yes, DNA commonly mutates along certain points the longer the bearing group is isolated from others.

The DNA in question is present in all modern humans outside of Africa, but the mutations occurred prior to modern humans leaving Africa. It is a binary relationship, not a gradual accumulation.

DNA mutations occur specific to regions, regional climatic conditions, food sources, availability of food sources, etc... And they continually occur.

Multiple mutations occurred in hominins outside of Africa - hence DNA analysis can place ancestors at likely geographic locations where the mutations likely occurred

Back to top

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 48856
At my desk.

Re: abos arent a race
Reply #72 - Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 2:42pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 2:32pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:45pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:27pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:27pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:26pm:

What is apparent is that 60,000 years is not long enough for an isolated group to speciate or sub-speciate.

What makes you think that?

Fertile offspring.

So your logic is that it is not possible to subspeciate in 60000 years because you are aware of one occasion in which it failed to happen in that time frame?

Not only are you wrong, you cannot even explain your own logic.

No. My logic is that 60000 years does not guarantee speciation because multiple Aboriginal groups - as separate from themselves as non-Australian groups - did not speciate.

Do you realise that you are saying something very different now?

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

MeisterEckhart

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 12206
Gender: male

Re: abos arent a race
Reply #73 - Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 2:47pm

freediver wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:52pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:34pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:26pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 1:19pm:

It has only been a few decades - with the mapping of the human genome - and the popularity of DNA ancestry, that the notion of race has been debunked as meaningless except as a reference to cultural/social/religious differences.

I watched a video of someone who thought he was 'pure' Han Chinese - until he received his DNA analysis results. Turns out he was likely 10% Korean.

He was not happy! Or 不开心 .

If DNA has debunked the existence of race, how is it possible to use DNA to identify a person's racial ancestry?

Also, did you know that there are significant amounts of human DNA that are only present in people originating from outside of Africa?

DNA analysis places ancestors geographically, not racially.

Another slight of hand. What is race, other than geographic origin?

Race is a term that means whatever the writer/speaker says it means, although usually the writer/speaker is referring to physical features

Prior to the discovery of DNA and its decoding, all notion of race was determined by physical features.

The Sentinel Islands people are an excellent example of people having an African appearance but genetically more closely related to peoples of East Asia than Africa.

Back to top

IP Logged

Belgarion Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5396 Gender:	Re: abos arent a race Reply #74 - Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 2:50pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2023 at 2:47pm: The Sentinel Islands people are an excellent example of people having an African appearance but genetically more closely related to peoples of East Asia than Africa. How do they know? No one survives contact
Back to top	"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Voltaire.....(possibly) IP Logged