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Who might be an Aboriginal? (Read 2464 times)
Lisa Jones
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Who might be an Aboriginal?
Sep 18th, 2023 at 9:37am
 
Now that we’ve been able to answer the question re what defines a woman .... let’s move on and at least ATTEMPT to define who might be an Aboriginal under Australia law.


Let’s start with something simple.

The person must be born in Australia? Yes/No?





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Lisa Jones
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Re: Who might be an Aboriginal?
Reply #1 - Sep 18th, 2023 at 10:10am
 
The person doesn’t have to be born in Australia but their parents must be? Yes/No?
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Lisa Jones
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Re: Who might be an Aboriginal?
Reply #2 - Sep 18th, 2023 at 10:15am
 
What about a person who wasn’t born in Australia and both his/her parents weren’t born in Australia but let’s say only 1 of their grandparents was born in Australia? And let’s say that 1 grandparent was Aboriginal. How much of an Aboriginal? Not sure. This grandparent may have been full blooded/may have been half blooded. No records were maintained about it.

Does this mean that in the above scenario all the grandchildren now qualify as Aboriginals at law?

Note : This is an actual question being asked elsewhere. No one knows the answer.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Who might be an Aboriginal?
Reply #3 - Sep 18th, 2023 at 10:54am
 
Well - one of the Big Movers in the YES movement had - apparently - a great-great-great-grandparent ... lessee now... that's 50%, then 25%, then 12.5%, then 6.25% ..... discard the rest and you have a pure Aboriginal............. it's only 93.75% so not worth considering since it is the oppressive White etc... Invader ... has no place here....

FFS.....  and he's well-heeled with a Senator wife and all... it's a damned tough life being an Aborigine in this country...

This is one of the questions raised by Albo's attempt at this absurd Voice.... there are no unintentional outcomes given that these dorks sit in a smoke-filled and whiskey/white wine filled haze and consider these things at your expense for a very long time ... batting back and forth all the 'what-ifs'...

Ergo - as I began to say many moons ago - Albo's REAL intention, while looking at being called The Emancipator Of the Poor Struggling Aborigine and holding his place in History (not Herstory -hmmmm) as Australia's Abraham Lincoln - was to bring to the fore all of these issues surrounding Aborigines.... the cash vanishing acts, the clear rorting, the cost to the economy direct, the division and name-calling, the violence in communities, the refusal of schools and training by many, the demand to remain in pre-1788 mode forever in a fast moving modern world that will either carry them along or run over them..... and specifically WHO or WHAT is an Aborigine...... we've managed to confirm that ALL born here are Indigenous...... that leaves ONLY the category of Aborigine to be determined....

So when that bloke above applies (applied?) for a scholarship for Aborigines - he only gets (got) 6.25% - or was he Entitled™ by some odd twist of reasoning to the full monty?

Might have to find me a Coonambulist a la Pascoe - get onto the gravy train.... did you know my seriously insane brother tried that one on - much to the laughter of the family? ...  Might have to give it a go.... I have my sallow skin when I get into the sun.... always figured that was the Juden ....
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« Last Edit: Sep 18th, 2023 at 11:12am by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »  

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Frank
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Re: Who might be an Aboriginal?
Reply #4 - Sep 18th, 2023 at 10:55am
 
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Who might be an Aboriginal?
Reply #5 - Sep 18th, 2023 at 10:57am
 
Whether someone is or is not an Aboriginal (or part thereof) has major legal implications,

High Court rules Aboriginal people cannot be deported for criminal convictions, cannot be 'alien' to Australia

The court found Aboriginal people held a special status and were exempt from immigration laws, after it considered the cases of two convicted criminals whom the Government wanted to deport.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-11/high-court-rules-aboriginal-people-cant-b...
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Lisa Jones
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Re: Who might be an Aboriginal?
Reply #6 - Sep 18th, 2023 at 11:00am
 
Frank wrote on Sep 18th, 2023 at 10:55am:


Thanks got that. It can sometimes be a tad hard to find topics which are worth reading

The last post in that link is interesting because it highlights a few current issues/tensions 👇

Frank wrote on Sep 13th, 2023 at 10:02am:
Dr Hagan said the widely ­accepted method test of “descent, self-identification and acceptance” by the Aboriginal community had already been abused to support fraudulent claims.

He said the only real test was for a person to name and prove their links to a tribe and an “apical ancestor” — a tribe’s common ancesto­r who can be demonstrated to be at the apex of the Aborig­inal lineage of a group.

READ MORE: ‘23 detainees claim ‘I’m indigenous’ | High Court rules indigenous people cannot be deported | This split decision raises issues of race and privilege
“The existing three-part test is as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike if it does not specify links to an apical ancestor,’’ he said.

“Anyone can do an internet search on a tribe and spin a good yarn to get around the definition, provided they can convince a gullible Aboriginal leader to say, ‘Yeah, I know him/her’, and then sign off on a confirmation of Aboriginali­ty certificate. Naming a tribe as proof of ­Aboriginality is no more than a geography lesson.

“An easy test to eliminate ­deceitful claims to Aboriginality, including those coming from ­detention centres of late, is to apply the apical ancestor test by going back a minimum of three generations. Ask claimants to do that and you’ll soon put a stop to fraudulent claims.”

Ms Weldon said she had seen widespread fraud by people claiming to be ­indigenous so they could access Aboriginal-identi­fied government jobs, university scholarships or public housing.

An elder of the Wiradjuri people­ from central-west NSW, she said “self-identification” by a statutory declaration — despite no evidence of Aboriginal lineage — was often ­accepted as proof.

“People are self-identifying with no proof, no links to Aborig­inal community or culture, by ticking the box and getting statutory declarations signed by a JP,’’ she said. “There are individuals and organisations that are handing them out like lolly paper.”
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/indigenous-anger-over-rise-of-fake-abori...


Today's Aboriginal identity news was brought to you by the letter B:
Bogus, bollocks, BS.




😂🤣😆

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Panther
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Re: Who might be an Aboriginal?
Reply #7 - Sep 18th, 2023 at 11:00am
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 18th, 2023 at 10:15am:
What about a person who wasn’t born in Australia and both his/her parents weren’t born in Australia but let’s say only 1 of their grandparents was born in Australia? And let’s say that 1 grandparent was Aboriginal. How much of an Aboriginal? Not sure. This grandparent may have been full blooded/may have been half blooded. No records were maintained about it.

Does this mean that in the above scenario all the grandchildren now qualify as Aboriginals at law?

Note : This is an actual question being asked elsewhere. No one knows the answer.



Excellent questions!!!

What is the answer......it depends......it depends on "AGENDA".......what is the agenda of the one(s) wanting/demanding positive recognition....
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Lisa Jones
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Re: Who might be an Aboriginal?
Reply #8 - Sep 18th, 2023 at 11:07am
 
Panther wrote on Sep 18th, 2023 at 11:00am:
Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 18th, 2023 at 10:15am:
What about a person who wasn’t born in Australia and both his/her parents weren’t born in Australia but let’s say only 1 of their grandparents was born in Australia? And let’s say that 1 grandparent was Aboriginal. How much of an Aboriginal? Not sure. This grandparent may have been full blooded/may have been half blooded. No records were maintained about it.

Does this mean that in the above scenario all the grandchildren now qualify as Aboriginals at law?

Note : This is an actual question being asked elsewhere. No one knows the answer.



Excellent questions!!!

What is the answer......it depends......it depends on "AGENDA".......what is the agenda of the one(s) wanting/demanding positive recognition.


Hello Panther - and many thanks for coming into this discussion. I think you’re absolutely right about that.

The definition relies heavily/is impacted by the agenda. That agenda is to establish a voice which will then be able to demand more money.



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tickleandrose
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Re: Who might be an Aboriginal?
Reply #9 - Sep 18th, 2023 at 11:10am
 
I think you guys and gals have some confusions going on. 

A person can free identify himself or her as an Aborigine even though he may not be of Aborigine descend.  This is that person's right of freedom of speech and personal liberty. 

However, in order to be recognised as someone of aborigine descend, and therefore, be eligible for government subsidies, and entitlements, that someone must have a 'letter of confirmation' is usually obtained from an incorporated Indigenous organisation and must be stamped with their common seal.  So its not like, someone random from overseas with zero% blood is able to obtain it. 

Now, one can say, oh you can potentially commit a fraud if you buy enough people out.  Well.. if you can buy enough people out, then you probably dont need to have government subsidies.  Or just get a fake MBBS qualifications or something.   Grin Grin Grin
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Re: Who might be an Aboriginal?
Reply #10 - Sep 18th, 2023 at 11:14am
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 18th, 2023 at 10:57am:
Whether someone is or is not an Aboriginal (or part thereof) has major legal implications,

High Court rules Aboriginal people cannot be deported for criminal convictions, cannot be 'alien' to Australia

The court found Aboriginal people held a special status and were exempt from immigration laws, after it considered the cases of two convicted criminals whom the Government wanted to deport.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-11/high-court-rules-aboriginal-people-cant-b...


Stupidest thing they ever did - if my parents went to Europe and took on different citizenship, that's it for Oz.... I'd have to re-apply as an immigrant ..... clearly that court needs a good reaming with a round bastard file so as to extract all the merde out of them...
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Lisa Jones
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Re: Who might be an Aboriginal?
Reply #11 - Sep 18th, 2023 at 11:16am
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 18th, 2023 at 10:57am:
Whether someone is or is not an Aboriginal (or part thereof) has major legal implications,

High Court rules Aboriginal people cannot be deported for criminal convictions, cannot be 'alien' to Australia

The court found Aboriginal people held a special status and were exempt from immigration laws, after it considered the cases of two convicted criminals whom the Government wanted to deport.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-11/high-court-rules-aboriginal-people-cant-b...


Ahhh many thanks Meister for that.

This is an area which also requires our focus. IF you can claim Aboriginality at law then that bestows upon you the privilege to claim immunity from certain laws. That’s something we should all read a few times.



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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

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Lisa Jones
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Re: Who might be an Aboriginal?
Reply #12 - Sep 18th, 2023 at 11:32am
 
tickleandrose wrote on Sep 18th, 2023 at 11:10am:
However, in order to be recognised as someone of aborigine descend, and therefore, be eligible for government subsidies, and entitlements, that someone must have a 'letter of confirmation' is usually obtained from an incorporated Indigenous organisation and must be stamped with their common seal.  Grin Grin Grin


So if I was born in England and both my parents are 50% Aboriginal and 50% English (because of their parents) and we as a family (both parents and children) collectively migrate back to Australia we are NOT ALLOWED to be Aboriginal in Australia because we can’t get this “letter” from some Indigenous Organisation.

Yet both my parents are 50% Aboriginal. And that’s how they present too. They readily identify and openly look dark and have told others all their life that they’re half Aboriginal/half English.

So according to you...these parents and their children are not legally recognised at law as being Aboriginal here in Australia. Because of a piece of paper. Thank you for your contribution under that ID. Could you do us ALL a favour and put that ID to rest and come back in with another one and perhaps have another go?
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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
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tickleandrose
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Re: Who might be an Aboriginal?
Reply #13 - Sep 18th, 2023 at 11:32am
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 18th, 2023 at 11:16am:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 18th, 2023 at 10:57am:
Whether someone is or is not an Aboriginal (or part thereof) has major legal implications,

High Court rules Aboriginal people cannot be deported for criminal convictions, cannot be 'alien' to Australia

The court found Aboriginal people held a special status and were exempt from immigration laws, after it considered the cases of two convicted criminals whom the Government wanted to deport.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-11/high-court-rules-aboriginal-people-cant-b...


Ahhh many thanks Meister for that.

This is an area which also requires our focus. IF you can claim Aboriginality at law then that bestows upon you the privilege to claim immunity from certain laws. That’s something we should all read a few times.





Untrue, studies have show time and time again that Indigenous Australians receives more prison sentences than other non indigenous population for the same crime and severity. 

https://www.alrc.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/81._prof_m_bagaric.pdf

https://humanrights.gov.au/our-work/indigenous-deaths-custody-arrest-imprisonmen
t-and-most-serious-offence

https://researchonline.jcu.edu.au/20896/3/exploring-sentencing.pdf

https://childrenscourt.nsw.gov.au/documents/other/chcs16meeting14weatherburn.pdf
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Lisa Jones
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Re: Who might be an Aboriginal?
Reply #14 - Sep 18th, 2023 at 11:37am
 
tickleandrose wrote on Sep 18th, 2023 at 11:32am:
Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 18th, 2023 at 11:16am:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 18th, 2023 at 10:57am:
Whether someone is or is not an Aboriginal (or part thereof) has major legal implications,

High Court rules Aboriginal people cannot be deported for criminal convictions, cannot be 'alien' to Australia

The court found Aboriginal people held a special status and were exempt from immigration laws, after it considered the cases of two convicted criminals whom the Government wanted to deport.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-11/high-court-rules-aboriginal-people-cant-b...


Ahhh many thanks Meister for that.

This is an area which also requires our focus. IF you can claim Aboriginality at law then that bestows upon you the privilege to claim immunity from certain laws. That’s something we should all read a few times.





Untrue.



What is it about the post exchange in question which you decided was untrue?

Try and focus on what was actually posted.
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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

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