Australian Politics Forum - What is a 'right'?

chimera

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #255 - Oct 6^th, 2023 at 8:03pm

A golden opportunity is not a piece of gold or coloured golden. Any adjective can describe any noun but never becomes the object.

An alienated possession is not enslaved. Your house is not your slave. Roman slaves had rights which were inalienable by law. Does that mean they had unenslaved rights to be enslaved?

Was slavery the main reason for the UN in 1945?

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thegreatdivide

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #256 - Oct 7^th, 2023 at 10:00am

freediver wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 11:42am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 10:51am:

freediver wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 9:27am:

What is the grammatical error?

Did you miss it?:

"Fruit (plural) "are" a Granny Smith" (singular) is grammatically wrong.

You would need to say: that particular piece of fruit IS a Granny Smith apple.

See what happens when you refuse to give examples of "rights", and resort - as always - to asking your infamous inane questions?

"Fruit (plural) is/are an apple"; an example of the well-known "fallacy of composition" which conservatives repeatedly fall for, because of their delusional "freedom of the individual" ideology.

Was there a grammatical error in what I posted, or just your mangled version of it?

Funny...you talking about mangled English....

You said: "fruit are a type of apple".

It's wrong, in grammar and logic.

"People are a type of Australian"......

I know its difficult for your deluded conservative 'individual freedom' mind to comprehend, but "people' refers to the collective (a 'plural' of all the 'singular' individuals making up the human race), whereas 'a type of Australian' refers to a specific group within the Australian population.

Now ....don't forget to comment on the fact the UN was created to "....save mankind from the scourge of war"; and also the lofty goals stated in the preamble to the US Constitution which you continue to ignore.

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America"

Note: "the people", ie ALL the American people....not a particular type of American(s).

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« Last Edit: Oct 7^th, 2023 at 10:22am by thegreatdivide »

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 83034 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: What is a 'right'? Reply #257 - Oct 7^th, 2023 at 10:08am What's left over after all the wrongs have been through you like a dose of salts?
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thegreatdivide

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #258 - Oct 7^th, 2023 at 10:15am

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 7^th, 2023 at 10:08am:

What's left over after all the wrongs have been through you like a dose of salts?

See the Libertarian, with another failed analogy.

At least the 'right' (.....) to a decent life is at last entering the Voice debate in Oz, as people are beginning to seriously contemplate what happens the day after the referendum.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48814 At my desk.	Re: What is a 'right'? Reply #259 - Oct 7^th, 2023 at 10:18am Quote: It's wrong, in grammar and logic. What is the grammatical error?
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chimera

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #260 - Oct 7^th, 2023 at 10:22am

freediver wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 4:47pm:

Inalienable means that no matter what you sign, you cannot sell yourself into slavery, .

If a person chose to sell and alienate himself into slavery,that would be his choice at his initiative. The UN Charter on 'inalienable rights' then would be blocking his right and yet be a right. Selling himself would be extremely rare. It was not the reason the Allies had fought WWII.

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freediver

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #261 - Oct 7^th, 2023 at 10:24am

chimera wrote on Oct 7^th, 2023 at 10:22am:

freediver wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 4:47pm:

Inalienable means that no matter what you sign, you cannot sell yourself into slavery, .

If a person chose to sell and alienate himself into slavery,that would be his choice at his initiative. The UN Charter on 'inalienable rights' then would be blocking his right and yet be a right. Selling himself would be extremely rare. It was not the reason the Allies had fought WWII.

Wow. I think chimera understands what inalienable means.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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chimera Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10507 armidale Gender:	Re: What is a 'right'? Reply #262 - Oct 7^th, 2023 at 10:27am Yes, the meaning of 'not enslaved' is nonsense.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48814 At my desk.	Re: What is a 'right'? Reply #263 - Oct 7^th, 2023 at 10:30am chimera wrote on Oct 7^th, 2023 at 10:27am: Yes, the meaning of 'not enslaved' is nonsense. Are you a slave?
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chimera Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10507 armidale Gender:	Re: What is a 'right'? Reply #264 - Oct 7^th, 2023 at 10:39am Is your house a slave after it was alienated by the seller? Was slavery the reason for the UN Charter?
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thegreatdivide

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #265 - Oct 7^th, 2023 at 11:04am

freediver wrote on Oct 7^th, 2023 at 10:18am:

Quote:

It's wrong, in grammar and logic.

What is the grammatical error?

"Fruit are a type of apple".

In my opinion***, ...should read: 'fruit (singular of 'fruits' ) IS (a type of apple)'; or, alternatively, fruits (plural of 'fruit') ARE (a type of apple). .

But in any case, both statements are wrong in logic.....are you prepared to acknowledge that fact now? (...cough...)

Or will you persist with the idiocy of 'people are a type of Australian'.

*** re my opinion on the grammar (quick google):

The word Fruit is a noun. The word is an exception where the noun is both countable and uncountable. So the plural of Fruit can be either Fruit OR Fruits. When we think of Fruit as a group collectively and in a non-specific way, then we tend to use the word Fruit.

OK..so we "tend" to use the world "fruit"...not 'fruits"....as I posited, so presumably "fruit are a type of apple" is gramatically correct, though it sounds wrong to my ears. (But "in a non-specific way" bolsters my argument: your statement refers to a type of apple).

Nevertheless, your statement IS wrong in logic, as shown above.

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« Last Edit: Oct 7^th, 2023 at 11:13am by thegreatdivide »

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chimera Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10507 armidale Gender:	Re: What is a 'right'? Reply #266 - Oct 7^th, 2023 at 11:09am Can somebody enslave fd? Please?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48814 At my desk.	Re: What is a 'right'? Reply #267 - Oct 7^th, 2023 at 11:20am Quote: Nevertheless, your statement IS wrong in logic, as shown above. Yeah, that was the point.
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thegreatdivide

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #268 - Oct 7^th, 2023 at 11:40am

freediver wrote on Oct 7^th, 2023 at 11:20am:

Quote:

Nevertheless, your statement IS wrong in logic, as shown above.

Yeah, that was the point.

So.....people are not a subset of people, or specific individuals.

So how to "save makind from the scourge of war"? ,

or

"establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare"...

other than by agreement under global law?

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #269 - Oct 7^th, 2023 at 12:15pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 7^th, 2023 at 11:40am:

freediver wrote on Oct 7^th, 2023 at 11:20am:

Quote:

Nevertheless, your statement IS wrong in logic, as shown above.

Yeah, that was the point.

So.....people are not a subset of people, or specific individuals.

So how to "save makind from the scourge of war"? ,

or

"establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare"...

other than by agreement under global law?

YEAH - and we'll beat the bastards all into line and if any of them step out of line they'll be bombed back into the Dark
Ages...

establish Justice - still waiting on how...

ensure domestic tranquility - still waiting to how

(I wasn't planning to insure it against breakage or theft or anything)

provide for the common defence - still waiting on how - bomb the bastards into submission....

promote the general welfare - still waiting on how.....

High-sounding ideas - what are the solutions?

... we can let him fester for a while now, Igor - he's sure to attempt a comeback.... a little of the old 'double down'..... after all - we're all responsible individually for the plight of every individual on earth even if we've never even heard of it and have zero power to alter it anyway ... that's the theory anyway.... (yardle, yardle)...

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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