thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 12:20pm:


Something else. Would you mind repeating what it is you want me to pull apart?

The right to self determination is real, because we share a belief in it. Except of course for CCP stooges, but their opinion does not count.

freediver wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 1:27pm:


But unfortunately, we (people)  have differing opinions on how that right is to be realized in practice. 

eg, Israeli WB settlers believe their right to self-determination trumps Palestinians' right to self determination, hence the (illegal, according to the UN) occupation of Palestinian territory.

Where is the error in that analysis?


And I heard reference to 'social justice' today (desired by many people)  on the radio; your conception of 'social justice' obviously differs from mine; eg, I think the poverty/welfare industry is incompatible with social justice, because I think ("believe") eveyone has a right (or rather, desires) to access an above poverty job, in the modern economy, as stated in UNUDHR article 23.

 

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 2:20pm:


And yet we still agree on it, and it is still real as a consequence. CCP stooges do not have to understand this for it to be real.

freediver wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 2:59pm:

'Self determination' was not mentioned in either the US Declaration or UN Charter. Julius Caesar was himself, as was Genghiz Khan and His Holiness Xi of CCP. They were determined and had no rights to be Americans. They could have sold himself into slavery, right, to make himself some cash. Julius was nearly broke and Crassus put him in debt.

Each had 1 vote and were 100% right.

chimera wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 11:20am:

Soooooo....  is there free will?

chimera wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 8:10pm:

Inalienable?

I think its a very philosophical question.   I believe, the concept of right is dependent on perspective, even within democracies.    I remember this in a debate I did with my friends back in school days, and it had some really interesting talking points for days.

Lets just create a hypothetical land.  One person had lived on, and called that piece of land home for decades.  He / she grew up there, and that is all he/she know.   Then one day, 19 other people showed up, and then planted a flag on that piece of land, and declare it a land for EVERYONE.   They set up, a fair system of democracy.    One person one vote.  All of sudden that person find him/her self a minority in the land and was powerless.  The question is then, how fair is it for the original inhabitant.

Those who are left of the politics, would immediately relate this situation to the plight of Aboringines vs colonialists.   

Those who are on the right right of the politics, would immediately relate this situation to the plight of white vs new immigrants.

So, in a summary, the concept of rights are situational, and subjective.

chimera wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 8:35pm:



What human characteristics, attributes stem from free will?