Australian Politics Forum - What is a 'right'?

thegreatdivide

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #405 - Oct 12^th, 2023 at 5:41pm

Frank wrote on Oct 12^th, 2023 at 2:08pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 11^th, 2023 at 9:59am:

freediver wrote on Oct 10^th, 2023 at 1:31pm:

Quote:

Please tell us what it means - this time other than with resort to terms like "inter subjective reality" which most people have not heard of, as you said.

What is wrong with my previous explanation?

You are welcome to google any terms you do not understand.

Fraudiver reverting to type.....

"inter-subjective reality" is understood by few, as you said, and yet you took pages to finally offer an example eg the "right to democracy".

Patently there is no such right, just a self-interested (reptilian brain directed) desire to influence government to enable greedy individuals to claim as much of the nation's output for themselves, without regard to the common welfare. The desire for 'benevolent authority' (as opposed to the greed-based 'invisible hand' market) is equally legitimate.

So there's what is wrong with your previous explanation.

Basically, 'freedom values' versus the common welfare' (not 'equality of outcome', the conservative lie)

But the 'freedom values' delusion is difficult to eradicate... it's aka the human condition (ego, id, versus reason...).

How did the 'reptilian brain' discover 'common welfare'? Why did the 'welfare state' developed only in liberal democratic capitalist countries?

Good to see your cerebral neurons attempting to communicate with their neigbours.....(even if barely successfully...)

The reptilian brain didn't "discover" anything, because it is unconscious; it evolved as instinct, to assist the organism to survive instinctively.

1. Now, the "welfare state" is of course a creation of the developed human cortex brain, no other animal concerns itself with 'welfare states'.

2. Roman emperors ensured free bread and oil etc for Rome's poor citizens (most of the population).

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« Last Edit: Oct 13^th, 2023 at 9:48am by thegreatdivide »

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Frank

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #406 - Oct 12^th, 2023 at 9:26pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 12^th, 2023 at 5:41pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 12^th, 2023 at 2:08pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 11^th, 2023 at 9:59am:

freediver wrote on Oct 10^th, 2023 at 1:31pm:

Quote:

Please tell us what it means - this time other than with resort to terms like "inter subjective reality" which most people have not heard of, as you said.

What is wrong with my previous explanation?

You are welcome to google any terms you do not understand.

Fraudiver reverting to type.....

"inter-subjective reality" is understood by few, as you said, and yet you took pages to finally offer an example eg the "right to democracy".

Patently there is no such right, just a self-interested (reptilian brain directed) desire to influence government to enable greedy individuals to claim as much of the nation's output for themselves, without regard to the common welfare. The desire for 'benevolent authority' (as opposed to the greed-based 'invisible hand' market) is equally legitimate.

So there's what is wrong with your previous explanation.

Basically, 'freedom values' versus the common welfare' (not 'equality of outcome', the conservative lie)

But the 'freedom values' delusion is difficult to eradicate... it's aka the human condition (ego, id, versus reason...).

How did the 'reptilian brain' discover 'common welfare'? Why did the 'welfare state' developed only in liberal democratic capitalist countries?

Good to see your cerebral neurons attempting to communicate with their neigbours.....(even if barely successfully...)

The repitilian brain didn't "discover" anything, because it is unconscious; it evolved as instinct, to assist the organism to survive instinctively.

1. Now, the "welfare state" is of course a creation of the developed human cortex brain, no other animal concerns itself with 'welfare states'.

2. Roman emperors ensured free bread and oil etc for Rome's poor citizens (most of the population).

You are ****ing monomaniacal ijit.

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chimera

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #407 - Oct 13^th, 2023 at 4:26am

freediver wrote on Oct 9^th, 2023 at 5:57pm:

Quote:

Greek adult male citizens of Athens took a major and direct part in the management of the affairs of state

What percentage of the population was allowed to vote?
If you set the bar that low, isn't it like saying China is already a democracy?

Then fd and Frank are saying that democracy and welfare haven't fully existed in the past. Agree. And UN 'rights' don't exist fully even in the West. The evidence is that 'rights' are not embedded and endowed in people. The US has over-stated its ideals.

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freediver

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #408 - Oct 13^th, 2023 at 8:31am

chimera wrote on Oct 13^th, 2023 at 4:26am:

freediver wrote on Oct 9^th, 2023 at 5:57pm:

Quote:

Greek adult male citizens of Athens took a major and direct part in the management of the affairs of state

What percentage of the population was allowed to vote?
If you set the bar that low, isn't it like saying China is already a democracy?

Then fd and Frank are saying that democracy and welfare haven't fully existed in the past. Agree. And UN 'rights' don't exist fully even in the West. The evidence is that 'rights' are not embedded and endowed in people. The US has over-stated its ideals.

Are you trying to say we will not have rights until they become part of our anatomy?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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chimera Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10507 armidale Gender:	Re: What is a 'right'? Reply #409 - Oct 13^th, 2023 at 8:42am You won't have internal rights until they become internal. Show me yours.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48814 At my desk.	Re: What is a 'right'? Reply #410 - Oct 13^th, 2023 at 8:43am Are you trying to say we will not have rights until they become part of our anatomy?
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chimera Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10507 armidale Gender:	Re: What is a 'right'? Reply #411 - Oct 13^th, 2023 at 8:45am We won't have inherent until we have inherent.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48814 At my desk.	Re: What is a 'right'? Reply #412 - Oct 13^th, 2023 at 8:57am Do you have the inherent ability to give a straight answer? Are you trying to say we will not have rights until they become part of our anatomy?
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Frank

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #413 - Oct 13^th, 2023 at 9:20am

chimera wrote on Oct 13^th, 2023 at 4:26am:

freediver wrote on Oct 9^th, 2023 at 5:57pm:

Quote:

Greek adult male citizens of Athens took a major and direct part in the management of the affairs of state

What percentage of the population was allowed to vote?
If you set the bar that low, isn't it like saying China is already a democracy?

Then fd and Frank are saying that democracy and welfare haven't fully existed in the past. Agree. And UN 'rights' don't exist fully even in the West. The evidence is that 'rights' are not embedded and endowed in people. The US has over-stated its ideals.

So there is no such thing as freedom or justice or honesty or personal autonomy. 'Overstated ideals'.

Who is making YOU think and say what you do? Me? Fd?

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48814 At my desk.	Re: What is a 'right'? Reply #414 - Oct 13^th, 2023 at 9:25am I suspect he is in a Chinese sardine can selecting from a list of pre-written English phrases that he does not entirely understand.
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chimera Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10507 armidale Gender:	Re: What is a 'right'? Reply #415 - Oct 13^th, 2023 at 9:28am freediver wrote on Oct 13^th, 2023 at 8:57am: Do you have the inherent ability to give a straight answer? So you do understand English! This is excellent. 'Rights' are not inherent. The existing rights are created by people and enforced as their laws by cops with inherent big feet.
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Frank

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #416 - Oct 13^th, 2023 at 9:30am

chimera wrote on Oct 13^th, 2023 at 9:28am:

freediver wrote on Oct 13^th, 2023 at 8:57am:

Do you have the inherent ability to give a straight answer?

So you do understand English! This is excellent. 'Rights' are not inherent. The existing rights are created by people and enforced as their laws by cops with inherent big feet.

Why is it that only humans create rights?

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chimera Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10507 armidale Gender:	Re: What is a 'right'? Reply #417 - Oct 13^th, 2023 at 9:34am Because animals don't have inherent or created rights. Why do you need to ask? Do you have kids who read your posts?
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thegreatdivide

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #418 - Oct 13^th, 2023 at 9:52am

Frank wrote on Oct 12^th, 2023 at 9:26pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 12^th, 2023 at 5:41pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 12^th, 2023 at 2:08pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 11^th, 2023 at 9:59am:

freediver wrote on Oct 10^th, 2023 at 1:31pm:

Quote:

Please tell us what it means - this time other than with resort to terms like "inter subjective reality" which most people have not heard of, as you said.

What is wrong with my previous explanation?

You are welcome to google any terms you do not understand.

Fraudiver reverting to type.....

"inter-subjective reality" is understood by few, as you said, and yet you took pages to finally offer an example eg the "right to democracy".

Patently there is no such right, just a self-interested (reptilian brain directed) desire to influence government to enable greedy individuals to claim as much of the nation's output for themselves, without regard to the common welfare. The desire for 'benevolent authority' (as opposed to the greed-based 'invisible hand' market) is equally legitimate.

So there's what is wrong with your previous explanation.

Basically, 'freedom values' versus the common welfare' (not 'equality of outcome', the conservative lie)

But the 'freedom values' delusion is difficult to eradicate... it's aka the human condition (ego, id, versus reason...).

How did the 'reptilian brain' discover 'common welfare'? Why did the 'welfare state' developed only in liberal democratic capitalist countries?

Good to see your cerebral neurons attempting to communicate with their neigbours.....(even if barely successfully...)

The repitilian brain didn't "discover" anything, because it is unconscious; it evolved as instinct, to assist the organism to survive instinctively.

1. Now, the "welfare state" is of course a creation of the developed human cortex brain, no other animal concerns itself with 'welfare states'.

2. Roman emperors ensured free bread and oil etc for Rome's poor citizens (most of the population).

You are ****ing monomaniacal ijit.

Frank, ad hominems are not debate, let's see if you can offer any more reasoned refutation.

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Frank

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #419 - Oct 13^th, 2023 at 9:53am

chimera wrote on Oct 13^th, 2023 at 9:34am:

Because animals don't have inherent or created rights. Why do you need to ask? Do you have kids who read your posts?

So it is inherently human - and only human - to have rights because only humans are persons and so only humans act interpersonally.

Language - an aspect of human self-consciousness and personhood - is inherently human. That doesn't mean that all humans develop the same language, only that all humans develop language and that human languages are translatable, ie mutually comprehensible.

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