Australian Politics Forum - What is a 'right'?

chimera Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10507 armidale Gender:	Re: What is a 'right'? Reply #30 - Sep 21^st, 2023 at 5:38pm Can't name a human right? The US Constitution didn't give any, so had another go in 1948. That's pretty late to discover an inalienable right in human creation, amen, thank you Einstein.
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Jasin

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #31 - Sep 21^st, 2023 at 5:40pm

Also. Remember that 'Politics' in the Northern Hemisphere (regardless of what form, be it Communist, Democratic, Confederation, Republic, etc, etc) - is for the 'Political People' only. That is, the establishment, the political leader and those who participate in Politics in any way in support of empowering Politics as an industry over others.

Theresa May resigned with this realisation that although the 'people at large' voted No to Brexit. The establishment basically ignored it. So to in the voting system of the USA where the 'deepest pocket' wins, in buying the votes publicly and 'in-house'.

So the 'Rights' are only for the Politically empowered.
Not for those outside of the Political bubbles.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 47276 Gender:	Re: What is a 'right'? Reply #32 - Sep 21^st, 2023 at 5:40pm freediver wrote on Sep 21^st, 2023 at 5:21pm: If no-one answers chimera's silly questions, do they cease to exist? Forgive me. I'm too stupid to really understand them in the first place.
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chimera Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10507 armidale Gender:	Re: What is a 'right'? Reply #33 - Sep 21^st, 2023 at 5:51pm 'Human rights are rights inherent to all human beings'. UN. Inherent 'intrinsic' Intrinsic 'interior, inward, internal'. Your human rights are internal, like your right kidney or right lung. Your right hand is a human right. Talking to freediver is not human, right or Roman. (I don't think Jasinner talks).
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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 47276 Gender:	Re: What is a 'right'? Reply #34 - Sep 21^st, 2023 at 6:05pm No I don't. I type (Write). Sorry, but you lose again (and need to come to your 'right' senses).
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thegreatdivide

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #35 - Sep 21^st, 2023 at 6:12pm

chimera wrote on Sep 21^st, 2023 at 5:38pm:

Can't name a human right? The US Constitution didn't give any, so had another go in 1948. That's pretty late to discover an inalienable right in human creation, amen, thank you Einstein.

I think the preamble to the US constitution identified the "rights" to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness".

In 1948, the UN created the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, spelling out 30 such rights.

But there was a fly in the oitment, in the form of the UNSC veto...which Zelensky railed against yesterday, during his speech in the UNGA.....

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Frank

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #36 - Sep 21^st, 2023 at 6:13pm

chimera wrote on Sep 21^st, 2023 at 5:19pm:

Name a human right.
When did it become that?

What are inherently human characteristics? Not biological components - kidneys, bones, skin - or biochemic elements - proteins, enzymes - as these are all found in their various versions in other creatures.

Whether you like it or not, human right have to do with God, the conception of God, specifically the Judeo - Christian God. It is about what kind of God would create humans like us.
In so far as there are any universal rights, these are based of the Christian conception of God and of humanity. You will never hear a Hindu or Muslim or Orthodox Jew or animistic shaman speak about universal human rights and his own religion and philosophy in the same breath.

God created man in his own image - and each culture, in turn, creates its god in its own image. The Christian God created man with freedom without distinction, Allah created slaves, Yahweh created a chosen people with laws applicable only to them.

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« Last Edit: Sep 21^st, 2023 at 6:31pm by Frank »

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thegreatdivide

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #37 - Sep 21^st, 2023 at 6:29pm

Frank wrote on Sep 21^st, 2023 at 6:13pm:

What are inherently human characteristics? Not biological components - kidneys, bones, skin - or biochemic elements - proteins, enzymes - as these are all found in their various versions in other creatures.

Good start.

Quote:

Whether you like it or not, human right have to do with God, the conception of God,...

Still on solid ground, (assuming "God" loves his Creation).

Quote:

specifically the Judeo - Christian God. It is about what kind of God would create humans like us.

Oops! you jumped off a cliff there mate....all humans are attracted by the mystique of The Creator, however perceived by humans.

Quote:

In so far as there are any universal rights, these are based of the Christian conception of God and of humanity. You will never hear a Hindu or Muslim or Orthodox Jew or animistic shaman speak about universal human rights and his own religion and philosophy in the same breath.

So...you are speaking about "Christ our Lord"....the 'Prince of Peace' who was nevertheless not God.

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God created man in his own i m age - and each culture, in turn, creates its god in its own image.

And Europe has been as violent as any culture on the planet since Christ's time...and NATO and Russia (all "Christians") are still at it.

I think you will find "rights" are human inventions, NOT 'natural/inalienable', and are instead desires mistaken for "rights".

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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 43845 Gender:	Re: What is a 'right'? Reply #38 - Sep 21^st, 2023 at 6:36pm thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 21^st, 2023 at 6:29pm: I think you will find "rights" are human inventions, NOT 'natural/inalienable', and are instead desires mistaken for "rights". What is the basis of that assertion?
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chimera

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #39 - Sep 21^st, 2023 at 6:43pm

'they derive rights inherent & inalienable, among which are the preservation of life, & liberty, & the pursuit of happiness,'.
And then:
'they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,'.
So there they 'derive' it and it's 'endowed'. Which one? 'Inherent' is not 'unique', but it's 'within men'. How do they derive something and place it inside as a permanent fixture from the beginning? If it's endowed why bother to derive it, and where is it endowed? The US didn't give its people two eyes for each citizen, so how do they see? Sure, show me the endowed derived rights and I shall believe. Maybe the right side of the brain? Should show up on CT scan.

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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 47276 Gender:	Re: What is a 'right'? Reply #40 - Sep 21^st, 2023 at 7:31pm These 'political' rights only adhere to the Political world and people involved. Those who promote gain to the Political industry or power, be it financial, etc - have more 'rights' than those who offer less and even more than those who live outside of the Political world and offer nothing for Political empowerment gain.
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chimera

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #41 - Sep 21^st, 2023 at 8:27pm

The UN 'rights' become a bit ridiculous in their complexity. If a right is an instinctive compulsion, then who naturally says to themselves :

'The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.

Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realization, through national effort and international co-operation and in accordance with the organization and resources of each State, of the economic, social and cultural rights indispensable for his dignity and the free development of his personality'.?

wha......

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Frank

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #42 - Sep 21^st, 2023 at 8:37pm

chimera wrote on Sep 21^st, 2023 at 6:43pm:

'they derive rights inherent & inalienable, among which are the preservation of life, & liberty, & the pursuit of happiness,'.
And then:
'they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,'.
So there they 'derive' it and it's 'endowed'. Which one? 'Inherent' is not 'unique', but it's 'within men'. How do they derive something and place it inside as a permanent fixture from the beginning? If it's endowed why bother to derive it, and where is it endowed? The US didn't give its people two eyes for each citizen, so how do they see? Sure, show me the endowed derived rights and I shall believe. Maybe the right side of the brain? Should show up on CT scan.

1. On what grounds do you think you can make such statements?

2. On what grounds do you think you can make such statements if others disagree vehemently?

3. on what grounds could someone imprison or kill you for making such statements?

4. Why would his grounds for killing you would override, or not, your grounds of speaking?

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
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chimera Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10507 armidale Gender:	Re: What is a 'right'? Reply #43 - Sep 21^st, 2023 at 8:59pm 1. The Preamble to the Declaration of Independence, with earlier draft. 2. Freediver allows speech, dribble and obfuscation. 3. The Russian demand that the armed forces not be humiliated. 4. Putin said so. 5. Have you been drinking again?
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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 57832 Here Gender:	Re: What is a 'right'? Reply #44 - Sep 21^st, 2023 at 9:04pm Quote: What is a 'right'? The opposite to a wrong ?
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