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Frank
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thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 16 th, 2023 at 5:30pm: Frank wrote on Oct 16 th, 2023 at 11:32am: thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 16 th, 2023 at 10:43am: Frank wrote on Oct 16 th, 2023 at 10:12am: thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 15 th, 2023 at 3:08pm: Frank wrote on Oct 15 th, 2023 at 2:54pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 15 th, 2023 at 2:47pm: Frank wrote on Oct 15 th, 2023 at 1:19pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 15 th, 2023 at 10:11am: Frank wrote on Oct 14 th, 2023 at 4:52pm: Self-consciousness, personhood, language are all inherent human traits. Yes, owing to a highly developed cortex brain, which is nevetheless influenced by the vestigial reptilian brain. You of course ignore my concluding remark (in my previous post): "But our global village is experiencing an absolute chaos of human degradation; time for some internatonal law, as well as national and local law." And so you attempt to justify your disinterest in international law, as follows: Quote:They are exercised in an interpersonal way: we recognise not only ourselves as self-conscious persons but also other human beings as well. These uniquely human, inherent traits are exercised, can only be exercised, in an inter-personal encounter with other persons. Such encounters - inevitable, inherent - are the stuff of human institutions and societies. That's right: but with 'the stuff' of different human societies resulting in the endless wars and entrenched poverty that has always existed, the globe can no longer absorb this disputation without leading to total social and economic collapse. Quote:Recognising common, shared humanity is the basis of articulating various concepts of what personhood is in a society. This is where the concept of rights comes up: what are the rights and obligations, freedoms and restrains of pesons living among other persons. Exactly. It's what the UNUDHR is attempting to address - but foiled by the UNSC veto. What is the difference - other than scale - between interpersonal and international? 'Interpersonal' relates to relations within a group or a tribe whose individuals have shared beliefs. 'International' implies law which over-rules these different tribal beliefs, to the extant necessary to avoid war and establish peaceful international relations. In a sense, it IS a matter of scale, because you already have to follow the law re eg, traffic regulations, as they relate to your own city. I mean how do you make interpersonal laws and international laws? What's th ee difference? Same way in which all law is made, by establishing the machinery necessary to legislate law, as it applies to the local, national and international arena. Quote:You have to negotiate between individuals and groups of individuals - or between nations. The governing law-makers do the negotiating, on behalf of the relevant group, eg local council area, national or global community. That's why we need a governing body eg in the form of a UNSC without veto, to manage international relations without resort to war. And how do the 'relevant groups' get elected/chosen? How do 'governing bodies' get formed, reviewed, recalled, replaced? How does this 'same way' work in interpersonal relations? By the clash of opinions, consensus or elctions and necessity...... So, by...er.... the constituents exercising their rights. Got it. Ta. Wrong again; this thread has shown rights don't exist unless they are defined within law, and since international law is still compromised by the obsolete concept of 'national sovereignty', the universally desirable "rights" defined in the UNUDHR still don't exist in practice; hence endless wars and entrtenched poverty. Do try to keep up.... So.... where do laws come from? No other species has laws. What is it about humans that makes us able to make laws? To conceive of the idea of laws, of rights, of justice? It is their personhood, and the recocognition of all other human beings' personhood. What does personhood entail? Uniquely human characteristics, distinct from other species and inanimate objects. Such as? Self-determination, abstract thought, language, tool making, purposeful cooperation, recognition of time as history, and so on. Laws, justice, rights - by virtue of being human. NO cat has the 'right' to think he is a dog. It is not in the cat 'vocabulary'. But man has the right to think he is a dog - or a woman, or a silly parrot that understands nothing.
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What is a 'right'? (Read 14042 times)
