Australian Politics Forum - What is a 'right'?

freediver

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #465 - Oct 23^rd, 2023 at 8:21am

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2023 at 10:20am:

From a tweet today:

I just want to remind people what Madeleine Albright said when asked about the half a million Iraqi children who died.
"I think that is a very hard choice,” “but the price, we think, the price is worth it.”
The contempt with which our leaders regard human life except their own.

Yes ...the blind, breathtaking contempt for the "rights" of those children.

All in the name of fraudiver's "intersubjective reality" or Frank's "interpersonal reality" - phrases designed to posit the reality of illusory inherent, inalienable rights.

Rights only exist in law.

Was it worth it for the CCP to starve 50 million Chinese citizens to death in an effort to feed them all equally, and do you share their contempt for their dead by insisting it doesn't matter and the Chinese people have nothing to learn from the CCP's mistakes, corruption and incompetence?

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thegreatdivide

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #466 - Oct 24^th, 2023 at 9:56am

freediver wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2023 at 8:21am:

[quote author=AusbetterWorld link=1695246225/461#461 date=1697934021]From a tweet today:

I just want to remind people what Madeleine Albright said when asked about the half a million Iraqi children who died.
"I think that is a very hard choice,” “but the price, we think, the price is worth it.”
The contempt with which our leaders regard human life except their own.

Yes ...the blind, breathtaking contempt for the "rights" of those children.

All in the name of fraudiver's "intersubjective reality" or Frank's "interpersonal reality" - phrases designed to posit the reality of illusory inherent, inalienable rights.

Rights only exist in law.

Quote:

Was it worth it for the CCP to starve 50 million Chinese citizens to death in an effort to feed them all equally,

Classic fraudiver diversion...

No, it was an extremely primitive misapplication of Marxist economic thought - Marx did not address a subsistence agrarian economy.

Quote:

and do you share their contempt for their dead by insisting it doesn't matter and the Chinese people have nothing to learn from the CCP's mistakes, corruption and incompetence?

The Chinese government DID learn from Mao's mistakes, which is why the CCP has lifted more people out of poverty than any nation in history, over the last four decades.

But back to the topic of 'rights' which you can't defend, which is why you engage in your pathetic diversion;

Each individual has his own (self-interested) view of rights, because desires (dressed up as "rights") are subjective, whereas the concept of 'justice'/fairness is universal - without defining how 'fairness' is manifested. (eg I think fairness is a 2 state solution under international law, you don't).

meaning agreement on "rights" is not forthcoming, except under rule of law. Therefore law must extend to the international jurispudence, to maintain peace and security.

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freediver

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #467 - Oct 24^th, 2023 at 4:53pm

Quote:

Each individual has his own (self-interested) view of rights, because desires (dressed up as "rights") are subjective, whereas the concept of 'justice'/fairness is universal - without defining how 'fairness' is manifested. (eg I think fairness is a 2 state solution under international law, you don't).

You have enough trouble saying what your own opinion is. Don't try telling anyone else what theirs is.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #468 - Oct 25^th, 2023 at 9:42am

freediver wrote on Oct 24^th, 2023 at 4:53pm:

Quote:

Each individual has his own (self-interested) view of rights, because desires (dressed up as "rights") are subjective, whereas the concept of 'justice'/fairness is universal - without defining how 'fairness' is manifested. (eg I think fairness is a 2 state solution under international law, you don't).

You have enough trouble saying what your own opinion is. Don't try telling anyone else what theirs is.

You have even more trouble defending the illusory concept of 'inherent individual rights'.

Enjoy the ongoing starvation/slaughter of thousands of children in Gaza, as a result of the 'right to self-defence', you blind 'inherent rights' ideologue.

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freediver

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #469 - Oct 25^th, 2023 at 11:47am

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 25^th, 2023 at 9:42am:

freediver wrote on Oct 24^th, 2023 at 4:53pm:

Quote:

Each individual has his own (self-interested) view of rights, because desires (dressed up as "rights") are subjective, whereas the concept of 'justice'/fairness is universal - without defining how 'fairness' is manifested. (eg I think fairness is a 2 state solution under international law, you don't).

You have enough trouble saying what your own opinion is. Don't try telling anyone else what theirs is.

You have even more trouble defending the illusory concept of 'inherent individual rights'.

Enjoy the ongoing starvation/slaughter of thousands of children in Gaza, as a result of the 'right to self-defence', you blind 'inherent rights' ideologue.

Would you like to explain your position on the right to self defence? Is it at odds with CCP propaganda?

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thegreatdivide

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #470 - Oct 27^th, 2023 at 7:59am

freediver wrote on Oct 25^th, 2023 at 11:47am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 25^th, 2023 at 9:42am:

freediver wrote on Oct 24^th, 2023 at 4:53pm:

Quote:

Each individual has his own (self-interested) view of rights, because desires (dressed up as "rights") are subjective, whereas the concept of 'justice'/fairness is universal - without defining how 'fairness' is manifested. (eg I think fairness is a 2 state solution under international law, you don't).

You have enough trouble saying what your own opinion is. Don't try telling anyone else what theirs is.

You have even more trouble defending the illusory concept of 'inherent individual rights'.

Enjoy the ongoing starvation/slaughter of thousands of children in Gaza, as a result of the 'right to self-defence', you blind 'inherent rights' ideologue.

Would you like to explain your position on the right to self defence? Is it at odds with CCP propaganda?

1. The desire to defend one's-self is instinctive; and is possessed by all humans (and all creatures).

But the concept of "legal" war ("rules of war") is absurd - which is why Isreal is insanely demanding Guterres resign, and why the UN can't "save mankind from the scourge of war"...

"Inherent Rights" are human inventions and need to be defined in law.

2. China is currently exposing Western hypocricy re "rights" in various international forums (eg "rights" of refugees, managed by building walls....) ; for my part, I believe in effective internationl law which supports well-being and security for all, under law.

Your turn: would you like to explain your position on the "right" to self defence? .....

And give an example of "CCP propaganda" , as it relates to "rights"?

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freediver

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #471 - Oct 27^th, 2023 at 8:02am

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 7:59am:

freediver wrote on Oct 25^th, 2023 at 11:47am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 25^th, 2023 at 9:42am:

freediver wrote on Oct 24^th, 2023 at 4:53pm:

Quote:

Each individual has his own (self-interested) view of rights, because desires (dressed up as "rights") are subjective, whereas the concept of 'justice'/fairness is universal - without defining how 'fairness' is manifested. (eg I think fairness is a 2 state solution under international law, you don't).

You have enough trouble saying what your own opinion is. Don't try telling anyone else what theirs is.

You have even more trouble defending the illusory concept of 'inherent individual rights'.

Enjoy the ongoing starvation/slaughter of thousands of children in Gaza, as a result of the 'right to self-defence', you blind 'inherent rights' ideologue.

Would you like to explain your position on the right to self defence? Is it at odds with CCP propaganda?

1. The desire to defend one's-self is instinctive; and is possessed by all humans (and all creatures).

But the concept of "legal" war ("rules of war") is absurd - which is why Isreal is insanely demanding Guterres resign, and why the UN can't "save mankind from the scourge of war"...

"Inherent Rights" are human inventions and need to be defined in law.

2. China is currently exposing Western hypocricy re "rights" in various international forums; for my part, I belive in effective internationl law which supports well-being and security for all, under law.

Your turn: would you like to explain your position on the "right" to self defence? .....

And give an example of "CCP propaganda" , as it relates to "rights"?

Do you think Israel has a right to defend itself from Hamas?

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thegreatdivide

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #472 - Oct 27^th, 2023 at 8:10am

freediver wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 8:02am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 7:59am:

freediver wrote on Oct 25^th, 2023 at 11:47am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 25^th, 2023 at 9:42am:

freediver wrote on Oct 24^th, 2023 at 4:53pm:

Quote:

Each individual has his own (self-interested) view of rights, because desires (dressed up as "rights") are subjective, whereas the concept of 'justice'/fairness is universal - without defining how 'fairness' is manifested. (eg I think fairness is a 2 state solution under international law, you don't).

You have enough trouble saying what your own opinion is. Don't try telling anyone else what theirs is.

You have even more trouble defending the illusory concept of 'inherent individual rights'.

Enjoy the ongoing starvation/slaughter of thousands of children in Gaza, as a result of the 'right to self-defence', you blind 'inherent rights' ideologue.

Would you like to explain your position on the right to self defence? Is it at odds with CCP propaganda?

1. The desire to defend one's-self is instinctive; and is possessed by all humans (and all creatures).

But the concept of "legal" war ("rules of war") is absurd - which is why Isreal is insanely demanding Guterres resign, and why the UN can't "save mankind from the scourge of war"...

"Inherent Rights" are human inventions and need to be defined in law.

2. China is currently exposing Western hypocricy re "rights" in various international forums; for my part, I belive in effective internationl law which supports well-being and security for all, under law.

Your turn: would you like to explain your position on the "right" to self defence? .....

And give an example of "CCP propaganda" , as it relates to "rights"?

Do you think Israel has a right to defend itself from Hamas?

No, because Israel is RESPONSIBLE for Hamas' creation, which means you are proposing Israel has a right to defend itself from itself....

Face it, the concept of legal war is absurd; your undefined "inherent rights" dogma is an illusion, based on unconscious self-preservation instincts.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48814 At my desk.	Re: What is a 'right'? Reply #473 - Oct 27^th, 2023 at 8:25am Are the Palestinians in any way responsible for their own actions, or can we just blame everything on the Jews?
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Yadda

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #474 - Oct 27^th, 2023 at 2:09pm

freediver wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 8:25am:

Are the Palestinians in any way responsible for their own actions, or can we just blame everything on the Jews?

Oh, we have to blame everything on the Jews.

The Palestinians [moslems] [always] do.

And there are many, many more moslems [who have 'agency'] than there are Jews.

As per......
There are approx 1.9 billion moslems in the world. ...........and THEY as a block of humanity, all condemn the Israelis [Jews].

And there are approx 16.1 million Jews in the world. ..."As of 2023, the world's....Jewish population was estimated at 16.1 million"

So we must stand with the majority view. ......its called 'the will of the majority'. Or 'a moral majority'.

And as we know, determination of right, and of merit, and of virtue, is always the prerogative of the majority.

[sarcasm]

Stalin and Hitler, knew this.........

And Xi ?

"Right is only in question between equals, and while the strong do what they can, the weak suffer what they must."

- Thucydides (460-400 B.C.) Greek Historian

Ancient King David once said......

"Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night."

Jeremiah 5:1
Run ye to and fro through the streets of Jerusalem, and see now, and know, and seek in the broad places thereof, if ye can find a man, if there be any that executeth judgment, that seeketh the truth; and I will pardon it.
2 And though they say, The LORD liveth; surely they swear falsely.
3 O LORD, are not thine eyes upon the truth? thou hast stricken them, but they have not grieved; thou hast consumed them, but they have refused to receive correction: they have made their faces harder than a rock; they have refused to return.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #475 - Oct 27^th, 2023 at 2:29pm

Yadda wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 2:09pm:

So we must stand with the majority view. ......its called 'the will of the majority'. Or 'a moral majority'.

And as we know, determination of right, and of merit, and of virtue, is always the prerogative of the majority.

As per......
The General Assembly of The United Nations.

[sarcasm]

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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The Heartless Felon Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2869 Gender:	Re: What is a 'right'? Reply #476 - Oct 27^th, 2023 at 2:50pm freediver wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 8:25am: Are the Palestinians in any way responsible for their own actions, or can we just blame everything on the Jews? Or, did Hamas declare war on Gaza, using Israel as its chosen weapon?
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thegreatdivide

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #477 - Oct 28^th, 2023 at 11:00am

freediver wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 8:25am:

Are the Palestinians in any way responsible for their own actions, or can we just blame everything on the Jews?

We are all responsible for our own actions, in as much as we are free to think and behave freely.

But ideology and external circumstances get in the way.

Aided and abetted by your delusional 'individual inherent rights' ideology: all individuals want to live in freedom, impossible under a false international 'rules of war' regime, permitting war as a means of settling ideological disputes.

The current Palestine war brings the issues to the fore in an excruciating manner, with 4000 Palestinian kids so far slaughtered by the bully-state even before the promised "ground offensive" (with Israeli military armed to the teeth with tanks, fighter aircraft and soldiers protected by the latest space-suit look-alike gear...).

I hate bullies eg the state of Israel...Israel, a bastard off-spring of the UN - a UN which was unable to successfully deliver this abortion of a state into the world, unable to guarantee the security of all in Palestine.

'Security'....the 'S' in the UNSC, just to remind you of the UN's aspirations which are destroyed by your delusional 'individual rights' (and related insane 'rules of war') ideology.

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freediver

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #478 - Oct 28^th, 2023 at 11:05am

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 28^th, 2023 at 11:00am:

freediver wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 8:25am:

Are the Palestinians in any way responsible for their own actions, or can we just blame everything on the Jews?

We are all responsible for our own actions, in as much as we are free to think and behave freely.

But ideology and external circumstances get in the way.

Aided and abetted by your delusional 'individual inherent rights' ideology: all individuals want to live in freedom, impossible under a false international 'rules of war' regime, permitting war as a means of settling ideological disputes.

The current Palestine war brings the issues to the fore in an excruciating manner, with 4000 Palestinian kids so far slaughtered by the bully-state even before the promised "ground offensive" (with Israeli military armed to the teeth with tanks, fighter aircraft and soldiers protected by the latest space-suit look-alike gear...).

I hate bullies eg the state of Israel...Israel, a bastard off-spring of the UN - a UN which was unable to successfully deliver this abortion of a state into the world, unable to guarantee the security of all in Palestine.

'Security'....the 'S' in the UNSC, just to remind you of the UN's aspirations which are destroyed by your delusional 'individual rights' (and related insane 'rules of war') ideology.

You are criticising the UN for not doing a good job in creating Israel, but you also seem to insist that all authority to create nations should rest with the UN.

Why do you not hold the Palestinians accountable for their own actions?

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« Last Edit: Oct 28^th, 2023 at 11:18am by freediver »

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thegreatdivide

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #479 - Oct 28^th, 2023 at 11:18am

Yadda wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 2:09pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 8:25am:

Are the Palestinians in any way responsible for their own actions, or can we just blame everything on the Jews?

Oh, we have to blame everything on the Jews.

The Palestinians [moslems] [always] do.

And there are many, many more moslems [who have 'agency'] than there are Jews.

As per......
There are approx 1.9 billion moslems in the world. ...........and THEY as a block of humanity, all condemn the Israelis [Jews].

And there are approx 16.1 million Jews in the world. ..."As of 2023, the world's....Jewish population was estimated at 16.1 million"

So we must stand with the majority view. ......its called 'the will of the majority'. Or 'a moral majority'.

And as we know, determination of right, and of merit, and of virtue, is always the prerogative of the majority.

[sarcasm]

Stalin and Hitler, knew this.........

And Xi ?

"Right is only in question between equals, and while the strong do what they can, the weak suffer what they must."

- Thucydides (460-400 B.C.) Greek Historian

Ancient King David once said......

"Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night."

Jeremiah 5:1
Run ye to and fro through the streets of Jerusalem, and see now, and know, and seek in the broad places thereof, if ye can find a man, if there be any that executeth judgment, that seeketh the truth; and I will pardon it.
2 And though they say, The LORD liveth; surely they swear falsely.
3 O LORD, are not thine eyes upon the truth? thou hast stricken them, but they have not grieved; thou hast consumed them, but they have refused to receive correction: they have made their faces harder than a rock; they have refused to return.

Spare us the words of the 'jealous' genocidal, bronze-age monster aka 'god', related in the Hebrew bible.

But the words of the ancient Greek historian/philosopher are interesting:

""Right is only in question between equals, and while the strong do what they can, the weak suffer what they must."

Yes, the age-old "might is right" system.....which the delegates present at the formation of the UN in late 1945 - with the image of that mushroon cloud over Hiroshima recently seared into their brains - wanted to change.....

Unfortunately, ancient instincts won the day, and the veto was demanded and adopted in the UNSC, against the will of those who wanted real positive change in international affairs.

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