Australian Politics Forum - What is a 'right'?

thegreatdivide

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #480 - Oct 28^th, 2023 at 11:28am

freediver wrote on Oct 28^th, 2023 at 11:05am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 28^th, 2023 at 11:00am:

freediver wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 8:25am:

Are the Palestinians in any way responsible for their own actions, or can we just blame everything on the Jews?

We are all responsible for our own actions, in as much as we are free to think and behave freely.

But ideology and external circumstances get in the way.

(..."give me the child, and I will show you the man...")

Aided and abetted by your delusional 'individual inherent rights' ideology: all individuals want to live in freedom, impossible under a false international 'rules of war' regime, permitting war as a means of settling ideological disputes.

The current Palestine war brings the issues to the fore in an excruciating manner, with 4000 Palestinian kids so far slaughtered by the bully-state even before the promised "ground offensive" (with Israeli military armed to the teeth with tanks, fighter aircraft and soldiers protected by the latest space-suit look-alike gear...).

I hate bullies eg the state of Israel...Israel, a bastard off-spring of the UN - a UN which was unable to successfully deliver this abortion of a state into the world, unable to guarantee the security of all in Palestine.

'Security'....the 'S' in the UNSC, just to remind you of the UN's aspirations which are destroyed by your delusional 'individual rights' (and related insane 'rules of war') ideology.

You are criticising the UN for not doing a good job in creating Israel, but you also seem to insist that all authority to create nations should rest with the UN.

"The acquisition of territory by force is inadmissible" .....who other than an UN authority can have authority to create nations? So it behoves such authority to be effective.

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Why do you not hold the Palestinians accountable for their own actions?

I already explained the issues around "responsibility"; you merely changing the word to "accountability" won't save your argument, fraudiver.

So..."We are all "accountable" for our own actions, in as much as we are free to think and behave freely.

But ideology and external circumstances get in the way; eg, ..."give me the child, and I will show you the man"...

Try again.

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« Last Edit: Oct 28^th, 2023 at 11:41am by thegreatdivide »

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freediver

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #481 - Oct 28^th, 2023 at 11:50am

You blame the Israelis for the conflict, but not the Palestinians, but the only people with the power to end the conflict are the Palestinians. All they have to do to end the conflict is stop attacking Israel. Short of killing every single person in Gaza, there is nothing Israel can do to stop the conflict.

You also claim to acknowledge the role of ideology in contributing the to conflict, but seem oblivious to the role that Islam is playing.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #482 - Oct 29^th, 2023 at 10:14am

freediver wrote on Oct 28^th, 2023 at 11:50am:

You blame the Israelis for the conflict,
but not the Palestinians, but the only people with the power to end the conflict are the Palestinians. All they have to do to end the conflict is stop attacking Israel. Short of killing every single person in Gaza, there is nothing Israel can do to stop the conflict.

Aha - more misrepresentation, even though the relevent points have already been addressed in this and the 'Hamas terrorism' thread.

I blame the UN for creating this abortion Israel in 1947, before the UN - as the proposed arbiter of proposed international law - had the competence to ensure Israel's security and acceptance in the world.

Quote:

You also claim to acknowledge the role of ideology in contributing the to conflict, but seem oblivious to the role that Islam is playing.

Jehovah is as guilty as Allah; a pox on both their houses.

Meanwhile, you choose death over life; in this case anarchic ideological freedom (aka the "right" to freedom of thought) , above rule of law protecting life.

"All must submit to rule of law, for all to be free". Cicero.

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freediver

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #483 - Oct 29^th, 2023 at 10:33am

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I blame the UN for creating this abortion Israel

Israel was created by the locals. Not by the UN. I know you think that the paperwork is more important than the reality, but that is naive.

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Jehovah is as guilty as Allah; a pox on both their houses.

Can you explain why the only Jewish majority state in existence is a liberal democracy, despite having everything pitched against it, while every Muslim majority nation is either a third world shithole or heading in that direction? Do you think the results might reflect the differences in the ideologies?

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Aussie

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #484 - Oct 29^th, 2023 at 1:19pm

freediver wrote on Oct 28^th, 2023 at 11:50am:

You blame the Israelis for the conflict, but not the Palestinians, but the only people with the power to end the conflict are the Palestinians. All they have to do to end the conflict is stop attacking Israel. Short of killing every single person in Gaza, there is nothing Israel can do to stop the conflict.

You also claim to acknowledge the role of ideology in contributing the to conflict, but seem oblivious to the role that Islam is playing.

Have not read the Thread..the last two posts only.

Yes there is...that 'liberal democracy' can stop stealing Palestinian land.

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freediver

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #485 - Oct 29^th, 2023 at 1:35pm

Aussie wrote on Oct 29^th, 2023 at 1:19pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 28^th, 2023 at 11:50am:

You blame the Israelis for the conflict, but not the Palestinians, but the only people with the power to end the conflict are the Palestinians. All they have to do to end the conflict is stop attacking Israel. Short of killing every single person in Gaza, there is nothing Israel can do to stop the conflict.

You also claim to acknowledge the role of ideology in contributing the to conflict, but seem oblivious to the role that Islam is playing.

Have not read the Thread..the last two posts only.

Yes there is...that 'liberal democracy' can stop stealing Palestinian land.

That would not stop the conflict Aussie. The Muslims would not be satisfied until they have gotten rid of all the Jews.

Or are you invoking your final solution again, whereby you achieve peace in the middle east by helping the Muslims to get rid of the Jews, thus convincing the Muslims never to make another unreasonable demand?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38462 Gender:	Re: What is a 'right'? Reply #486 - Oct 29^th, 2023 at 2:27pm I'll just toss this in there....why should Palestinians not resist land theft...you know, incremental invasion ...... with force? More and more settlers taking land in the West Bank sanctioned by that 'liberal democracy' which you assert is happy to live peacefully with Palestinians?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48814 At my desk.	Re: What is a 'right'? Reply #487 - Oct 29^th, 2023 at 2:42pm Was I correct that your "solution" is to get rid of all the Jews? It's kind of the elephant in the room Aussie.
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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38462 Gender:	Re: What is a 'right'? Reply #488 - Oct 29^th, 2023 at 2:50pm freediver wrote on Oct 29^th, 2023 at 2:42pm: Was I correct that your "solution" is to get rid of all the Jews? It's kind of the elephant in the room Aussie. No, you were wrong, as usual. Tell me Effendi, do you condone or condemn the theft of Palestinian land by Israel?
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freediver

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #489 - Oct 29^th, 2023 at 3:18pm

Aussie wrote on Oct 29^th, 2023 at 2:50pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 29^th, 2023 at 2:42pm:

Was I correct that your "solution" is to get rid of all the Jews? It's kind of the elephant in the room Aussie.

No, you were wrong, as usual.

Tell me Effendi, do you condone or condemn the theft of Palestinian land by Israel?

Have you changed your mind about getting rid of the Jews Aussie?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38462 Gender:	Re: What is a 'right'? Reply #490 - Oct 29^th, 2023 at 3:30pm F uck off with your crap, Effendi. You love to ask other people questions, and ascribe misrepresentations to them and blithely ignore what they ask of you.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48814 At my desk.	Re: What is a 'right'? Reply #491 - Oct 29^th, 2023 at 3:45pm It just seems a bit silly to ignore the elephant in the room Aussie. It's like discussing the finer points of train timetables with a Nazi. You can hardly expect anyone to take you seriously given the views you have expressed about Jews.
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Jasin

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #492 - Oct 29^th, 2023 at 4:06pm

Aussie wrote on Oct 29^th, 2023 at 2:27pm:

I'll just toss this in there....why should Palestinians not resist land theft...you know, incremental invasion ...... with force?

More and more settlers taking land in the West Bank sanctioned by that 'liberal democracy' which you assert is happy to live peacefully with Palestinians?

Palestine was created by the Romans who stole the land from Israel (Judah) long ago and given to arabs to undermine the Jews.
Romans are no longer around and that land is forfeited to be returned to Israel.
Palestine is not a nation. It is an invasive entity upon Jewish lands.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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chimera Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10507 armidale Gender:	Re: What is a 'right'? Reply #493 - Oct 30^th, 2023 at 8:01am If you want to try that one, look at Exodus 15.14. 'Moses and the children of Israel sang : sorrow shall take hold on the inhabitants of Palestina'. Israel came from Egypt and invaded Palestine.
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thegreatdivide

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Re: What is a 'right'?
Reply #494 - Oct 30^th, 2023 at 9:33am

freediver wrote on Oct 29^th, 2023 at 10:33am:

Quote:

I blame the UN for creating this abortion Israel

Israel was created by the locals. Not by the UN. I know you think that the paperwork is more important than the reality, but that is naive.

Wrong as usual; Israel came into being as a result of the demise of the British empire immediately after WW2, and the concurrent invention of the UN in late 1945, taking over the British Palestine Mandate.

As usual you continue to ignore the cause of the UN's incompetence re international law; yours is an ideology of 'freedom in death' rather than 'freedom in life', owing to your delusional "individual rights" ideology.

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Can you explain why the only Jewish majority state in existence is a liberal democracy,

...A "liberal democracy" complicit in the oppression and displacement of Palestinians by FITH "Promised Land" ideologues, condemned by a majority of the UN's member states.

Quote:

despite having everything pitched against it, while every Muslim majority nation is either a third world shithole or heading in that direction? Do you think the results might reflect the differences in the ideologies?

Laughable: the world's wealthiest superpower, itself a liberal democracy unable to eradicate poverty, and engaged in endless wars to maintain its global hegemony, supports Israel with $trillions in military support.

And ofcourse the US is largely responsible for the destruction of social and economic development in the ME, eg the CIA backed overthrow of the democratically elected socialist Mossadegh government in Iran in 1953.

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