Australian Politics Forum - Does Atheism really exist?

Frank

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #210 - Sep 28^th, 2023 at 2:10pm

mothra wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 1:08pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 1:00pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 12:51pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 12:45pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 12:36pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 12:31pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 12:27pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 12:21pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 11:56am:

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 11:51am:

Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 11:25am:

Atheism—not believing in gods.

See? You need the concept of God to define atheism. It is inevitable since God is in the very word, atheism. You have to conceptualise what you are not believing in.

No. You do not. Although it could be argued tot that reach a standpoint irrespective of knowledge that there is such a thing as god is impossible.

As i previously said, the prefix "a" doesn't mean againt, it means without.

One does not need to stand against god to disbelieve in it. One requires being taught to believe in it in the first place.

Without. A preposition. It needs a predicate.

You have to conceptualise the 'theos' to be able to say that you are without it.

One requires to be taught everything, starting with language and including science, religion, philosophy of which atheism is one strand.

You could say you are an atheist or an agnostic or religious if you weren't taught. They are all conceptual.

It's possible to conceptualise a winged horse without believing that one exists.

But it is not possible to say 'I don't believe in winged horses' without conceptualizing them.

Yes, that's true, but conceptualising doesn't create a winged horse, or does Zeus actually reside in a palace on Mount Olympus? Does Nemesis actually stand guard at the summit?

Well, winged horse's being a concept, So conceptualising winged horses does create the concept, the image, the idea of winged horses. Thinking of, imagining something does not create physical objects (unless you are God).

God, the conceptualization of the metaphysical, is imagined and every time the word is used, god is conceptualised. This is no big revelation, the same thing happens when we speak about anything.
An agnostic conceptualise a certain kind of this is to be able express that he is without it. It would be meaningless otherwise. Atheism, similarly, points to what it is without.

No. This is not the default human position. This is you superimposing your own experience onto that of others.

Nobody is born believing in any gods whatsoever. Left to their own devices, they may think some experiences in their life are beyond their understanding but for the most part, they would accept they would eventually decay as do all the forest creatures.

This whole god bothering nonsense is an invention.

Well, could you dispute the existence of winged horses if you didnt conceptualise them first?

The French existentialist Jean-Paul Sartre was sitting at a café table working. A waiter approached him

‘Can I get you something to drink, Monsieur Sartre?’ he asked.
‘Yes, I’d like a cup of coffee with sugar, but no cream’, the philosopher replied.

A few minutes later, however, the water returned and said,

‘I’m sorry, Monsieur Sartre, we are all out of cream — how about with no milk?’

Why would i think of them without prodding?

Because you would have heard about Islam and that Mohammed rode one to the Moon and back.

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MeisterEckhart Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 12640 Gender:	Re: Does Atheism really exist? Reply #211 - Sep 28^th, 2023 at 2:18pm Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 1:07pm: Even so they (atheists) can’t provide a shred of evidence that God doesn’t exist. Look at this topic for a clue. How do you prove god doesn't exist?
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Lisa Jones

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #212 - Sep 28^th, 2023 at 2:19pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 2:18pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 1:07pm:

Even so they (atheists) can’t provide a shred of evidence that God doesn’t exist. Look at this topic for a clue.

How do you prove god doesn't exist?

I previously posted about that.

That’s a problem for Atheists to sort out.

The Presumption Of Atheism

1. In the absence of evidence for the existence of God we should presume that God does not exist.

2. Atheism is a default position.

3. Thus the Theist bears a special burden of proof with regard to their belief that God exists.

The problem with The Presumption Of Atheism.

1. The assertion that “There is no God” is just as much a claim to knowledge as is the assertion that “There is a God.”

2. As such...the former assertion requires justification just as the latter does.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #213 - Sep 28^th, 2023 at 2:20pm

mothra wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 1:07pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 1:00pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 12:51pm:

Left to their own devices, they may think some experiences in their life are beyond their understanding but for the most part, they would accept they would eventually decay as do all the forest creatures.

I doubt that.

I'd bet there hasn't been a society, tribe, or clan that has ever existed that has no god or spirit world to explain the inexplicable.

This does not negate my assertion that an individual in isolation, while perhaps beset with things they could not explain, would think any different to the reality of them ending up decaying like any other beast.

An individual who was not born and nurtured by a society/tribe/clan - a dreamtime entity?

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Bobby.

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #214 - Sep 28^th, 2023 at 2:22pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 2:19pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 2:18pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 1:07pm:

Even so they (atheists) can’t provide a shred of evidence that God doesn’t exist. Look at this topic for a clue.

How do you prove god doesn't exist?

That’s a problem for Atheists to sort out.

Actually lisa,
don't fall for that one -
you can't disprove a negative -

example -

prove that there's not a Leprechaun at the bottom of my garden.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #215 - Sep 28^th, 2023 at 2:33pm

Bobby. wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 2:22pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 2:19pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 2:18pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 1:07pm:

Even so they (atheists) can’t provide a shred of evidence that God doesn’t exist. Look at this topic for a clue.

How do you prove god doesn't exist?

That’s a problem for Atheists to sort out.

The Presumption Of Atheism

1. In the absence of evidence for the existence of God we should presume that God does not exist.

2. Atheism is a default position.

3. Thus the Theist bears a special burden of proof with regard to their belief that God exists.

The problem with The Presumption Of Atheism.

1. The assertion that “There is no God” is just as much a claim to knowledge as is the assertion that “There is a God.”

2. As such...the former assertion requires justification just as the latter does.

Actually lisa,
don't fall for that one -
you can't disprove a negative -

example -

prove that there's not a Leprechaun at the bottom of my garden.

You didn’t quote me in full.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #216 - Sep 28^th, 2023 at 2:34pm

Bobby. wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 2:22pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 2:19pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 2:18pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 1:07pm:

Even so they (atheists) can’t provide a shred of evidence that God doesn’t exist. Look at this topic for a clue.

How do you prove god doesn't exist?

That’s a problem for Atheists to sort out.

Actually lisa,
don't fall for that one -
you can't disprove a negative -

example -

prove that there's not a Leprechaun at the bottom of my garden.

You can prove, say, that there's no cockroach in your coffee cup.

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Linus

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #217 - Sep 28^th, 2023 at 4:20pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 8:30am:

Just trying to find the topic....

Ahhhh here it is. I had finished pwning the Fake Multi Mong shared ID Lienus.

Linus wrote on Sep 27^th, 2023 at 1:28pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 27^th, 2023 at 1:21pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 27^th, 2023 at 1:08pm:

Linus wrote on Sep 27^th, 2023 at 11:20am:

You're an old harridan pretending to be younger than you are.
---->"Luncheon"<------ Pushing 70 plus, I'd say. Grin

Monk - is that you pretending to be Linus?

The first time in my life that I saw the word harridan
was when you used it here on Ozpolitic a few years ago.

harridan
a strict, bossy, or belligerent old woman.

You're sprung.
I reckon Linus is your sock puppet.

It’s a fake shared Mong ID. NotSoGreat ie Bwian is also using it. I sprung those 2ids the same way. Also the same time.

LOL, I was wrong. You're still accusing me of being someone else. I'm not. You're pathetic, Lisa Jones. Lost to the real world and lost to your god. You're living in your own wonderland talking to characters of your own creation but not the characters you're actually talking to or about.

On top of your narcissism do you also have a little schizo going on? Roll Eyes

Just for you Lienus - irrespective of your shared multi Mong nics - the particular and unique brand of unhinged mental illness you few idiots share and which help to keep you cyber lepers together ALWAYS give you away.

Have another read you passive aggressive gaslighting prick 👇

Quote:

So when you then have a dummy spit and cry and play the pathetic victim then suddenly change tact and announce that you prefer civil discourse I immediately think to myself : this guy is insane/is in need of more medication/needs a further psychiatric assessment because he’s definitely exhibiting borderline personality disorder and/or schizophrenia and God knows what else.

As regards your mate Dumbarse Drunk - we know it’s frontal lobal dementia playing out on the brain of an 80 yr old long term alcoholic recluse. As such we just post over him or make fun of him. We don’t even read the rubbish he smears. Nor do we bother with his sub forum padded cell where he chats to himself for hours.

Oh, hello there, Be
LIEsa
bub, haven't you an exorcism to attend?

I noticed you ran off yesterday. Did you have a weep when I exposed the truth of your meaningless existence? And now you're trying to desperately reframe what happened. *Shrug*

The fact is that you've been screaming, ranting, raving and hurling paranoid accusations against people you don't know on online forums for over 20 years, by your own admissions. It's always the same material over and over, day in and day out, by what I've gathered: from what you have said,other people's responses to you and what they've said to me. Any objective person would say that you are in need of psychiatric attention and medication. If you are already being attended to in this way, it's obviously not enough. Have you considered entering a mental health facility?

I suppose the only positive thing for you about confining yourself to online forums, much to the woe of the people you inflict yourself upon, is that it keeps you off the streets.

Long before this thread, when I made my first foray into this forum,as I've already told you, when I had no idea who I was dealing with, you, without provocation, attacked me and accused me of being ID's I was not and had no clue about. Ok, since I've tried to largely ignore you, or avoid threads you're in but you enter threads I'm in and continue try to traduce me, thinking you know who I am- other ID's who, funnily enough,you obviously know nothing about, but think you're proving something. I have a limit and gave you back some of the same.

Nevertheless, I've tried to offer an olive branch and stay on topic. Here, for example, I did that and asked you about what you meant by your kind of evidence for your god. No, you twisted that in the scrambled mess between your ears, and aided and abetted by your wingman, Bobby, you once again returned to full-throttle loony. And you couldn't contain yourself even today-more of the same rubbish.

I have only two words left for you, BeLIESabub- bugger off!

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Aussie

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #218 - Sep 28^th, 2023 at 4:29pm

Linus wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 4:20pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 8:30am:

Just trying to find the topic....

Ahhhh here it is. I had finished pwning the Fake Multi Mong shared ID Lienus.

Linus wrote on Sep 27^th, 2023 at 1:28pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 27^th, 2023 at 1:21pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 27^th, 2023 at 1:08pm:

Linus wrote on Sep 27^th, 2023 at 11:20am:

You're an old harridan pretending to be younger than you are.
---->"Luncheon"<------ Pushing 70 plus, I'd say. Grin

Monk - is that you pretending to be Linus?

The first time in my life that I saw the word harridan
was when you used it here on Ozpolitic a few years ago.

harridan
a strict, bossy, or belligerent old woman.

You're sprung.
I reckon Linus is your sock puppet.

It’s a fake shared Mong ID. NotSoGreat ie Bwian is also using it. I sprung those 2ids the same way. Also the same time.

LOL, I was wrong. You're still accusing me of being someone else. I'm not. You're pathetic, Lisa Jones. Lost to the real world and lost to your god. You're living in your own wonderland talking to characters of your own creation but not the characters you're actually talking to or about.

On top of your narcissism do you also have a little schizo going on? Roll Eyes

Just for you Lienus - irrespective of your shared multi Mong nics - the particular and unique brand of unhinged mental illness you few idiots share and which help to keep you cyber lepers together ALWAYS give you away.

Have another read you passive aggressive gaslighting prick 👇

Quote:

So when you then have a dummy spit and cry and play the pathetic victim then suddenly change tact and announce that you prefer civil discourse I immediately think to myself : this guy is insane/is in need of more medication/needs a further psychiatric assessment because he’s definitely exhibiting borderline personality disorder and/or schizophrenia and God knows what else.

As regards your mate Dumbarse Drunk - we know it’s frontal lobal dementia playing out on the brain of an 80 yr old long term alcoholic recluse. As such we just post over him or make fun of him. We don’t even read the rubbish he smears. Nor do we bother with his sub forum padded cell where he chats to himself for hours.

Oh, hello there, Be
LIEsa
bub, haven't you an exorcism to attend?

I noticed you ran off yesterday. Did you have a weep when I exposed the truth of your meaningless existence? And now you're trying to desperately reframe what happened. *Shrug*

The fact is that you've been screaming, ranting, raving and hurling paranoid accusations against people you don't know on online forums for over 20 years, by your own admissions. It's always the same material over and over, day in and day out, by what I've gathered: from what you have said,other people's responses to you and what they've said to me. Any objective person would say that you are in need of psychiatric attention and medication. If you are already being attended to in this way, it's obviously not enough. Have you considered entering a mental health facility?

I suppose the only positive thing for you about confining yourself to online forums, much to the woe of the people you inflict yourself upon, is that it keeps you off the streets.

Long before this thread, when I made my first foray into this forum,as I've already told you, when I had no idea who I was dealing with, you, without provocation, attacked me and accused me of being ID's I was not and had no clue about. Ok, since I've tried to largely ignore you, or avoid threads you're in but you enter threads I'm in and continue try to traduce me, thinking you know who I am- other ID's who, funnily enough,you obviously know nothing about, but think you're proving something. I have a limit and gave you back some of the same.

Nevertheless, I've tried to offer an olive branch and stay on topic. Here, for example, I did that and asked you about what you meant by your kind of evidence for your god. No, you twisted that in the scrambled mess between your ears, and aided and abetted by your wingman, Bobby, you once again returned to full-throttle loony. And you couldn't contain yourself even today-more of the same rubbish.

I have only two words left for you, BeLIESabub- bugger off!

Linus, you posted this:

Quote:

Great to be back from that dastardly pit known as Ozpol. I've never seen such a concentration of vicious goons, misfits, and ignoramuses- and I'm biting my tongue here.

So....um....why hang out here?

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Linus Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 471 Gender:	Re: Does Atheism really exist? Reply #219 - Sep 28^th, 2023 at 5:02pm Well, Aussie, that's a fair point. As you may have seen, I had been engaged by a few posters. Maybe I should have resisted,kept away and I should have refused to pick up the gauntlets. Heh, no one is perfect. Right?
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Aussie

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #220 - Sep 28^th, 2023 at 5:11pm

Linus wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 5:02pm:

Well, Aussie, that's a fair point. As you may have seen, I had been engaged by a few posters. Maybe I should have resisted,kept away and I should have refused to pick up the gauntlets. Heh, no one is perfect. Right?

Well, you have had your say now...so....time to say goodbye to this 'dastardly pit,' ey?

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Linus

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #221 - Sep 28^th, 2023 at 5:26pm

Aussie wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 5:11pm:

Linus wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 5:02pm:

Well, Aussie, that's a fair point. As you may have seen, I had been engaged by a few posters. Maybe I should have resisted,kept away and I should have refused to pick up the gauntlets. Heh, no one is perfect. Right?

Well, you have had your say now...so....time to say goodbye to this 'dastardly pit,' ey?

Mmm, to be fair, sure, I could do that but since when have any of you denizens of the pit ever played fair? Here's a compromise, the denizens play nice and I'll play nice. Could you approach your sidekicks, Lisa and Bobby, and tell them to stop accusing me of being ID's that I'm not? Or are you beholden to them in some way?

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Aussie

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #222 - Sep 28^th, 2023 at 5:36pm

Linus wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 5:26pm:

Aussie wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 5:11pm:

Linus wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 5:02pm:

Well, Aussie, that's a fair point. As you may have seen, I had been engaged by a few posters. Maybe I should have resisted,kept away and I should have refused to pick up the gauntlets. Heh, no one is perfect. Right?

Well, you have had your say now...so....time to say goodbye to this 'dastardly pit,' ey?

Mmm, to be fair, sure, I could do that but since when have any of you denizens of the pit ever played fair? Here's a compromise, the denizens play nice and I'll play nice. Could you approach your sidekicks, Lisa and Bobby, and tell them to stop accusing me of being ID's that I'm not? Or are you beholden to them in some way?

Very odd post. "Denizen." "LOL." "Harradin." My (alleged) "sidekicks." Me..(allegedly) "beholding." Lots of ??????

Quote:

You're an old harridan pretending to be younger than you are.

Very Monkish.

Not much past membership of 12 months...a casual visitor....this place is a dastardly pit, and yet??

I am not accusing you of being Monk, but, you are very similar to him in many (posting) ways. Like..."BeLIEsabub" or whatever it was. That is typical Monk stuff. He loves playing with old English type words like that. He thinks it makes him look clever. He is also quite attached to that sort of name. But.....I am not accusing you of being Monk. Maybe you are one of his 'cu

nt

y' sisters? Or not.

Anyway......

How is any of that relevant to you being quite averse to being part of this dastardly pit?

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« Last Edit: Sep 28^th, 2023 at 5:50pm by Aussie »

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Frank

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #223 - Sep 28^th, 2023 at 5:48pm

mothra wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 1:07pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 1:00pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 12:51pm:

Left to their own devices, they may think some experiences in their life are beyond their understanding but for the most part, they would accept they would eventually decay as do all the forest creatures.

I doubt that.

I'd bet there hasn't been a society, tribe, or clan that has ever existed that has no god or spirit world to explain the inexplicable.

Of course. Built collectively over time.

This does not negate my assertion that an individual in isolation, while perhaps beset with things they could not explain, would think any different to the reality of them ending up decaying like any other beast.

The Will Not To Believe (ie the Will to Power)

Since both theism and atheism are opinions, both are choices. Atheists choose to reject belief in God and most of them throw out a great deal more with it, ignoring or repudiating much of Western philosophy, art, literature, history.
This is not to say, of course, that belief guarantees philosophical, literary or artistic education. Of course not.

But IF you want to understand them, you need to understand Christianity and its roots in Jewish and Greco-Roman antiquity as well as it's development since.

Atheism overthrow God and puts Man in his place.

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Linus

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #224 - Sep 28^th, 2023 at 5:56pm

Aussie wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 5:36pm:

Linus wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 5:26pm:

Aussie wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 5:11pm:

Linus wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 5:02pm:

Well, Aussie, that's a fair point. As you may have seen, I had been engaged by a few posters. Maybe I should have resisted,kept away and I should have refused to pick up the gauntlets. Heh, no one is perfect. Right?

Well, you have had your say now...so....time to say goodbye to this 'dastardly pit,' ey?

Mmm, to be fair, sure, I could do that but since when have any of you denizens of the pit ever played fair? Here's a compromise, the denizens play nice and I'll play nice. Could you approach your sidekicks, Lisa and Bobby, and tell them to stop accusing me of being ID's that I'm not? Or are you beholden to them in some way?

Very odd post. "Denizen." "LOL." "Harradin." My (alleged) "sidekicks." Me..(allegedly) "beholding." Lots of ??????

How is any of that relevant to you being quite averse to being part of a dastardly pit?

And who made you sheriff? Also, why are you spying on what I write outside of this forum? That's interesting in itself.

I don't know if this is a shocking idea to you or not, but let's just say I've built up some tolerance to "aversity" in much the same way as you might do with chilli. I'll come and go as I please.

Thank you, for going out of your way to talk to me.

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Poll
Question: Atheism - how do YOU define it?
Not believing in GOD? 6 (50.0%) Believing in NO GOD? 6 (50.0%) Total votes: 12 « Created by: Lisa Jones on: Sep 28^th, 2023 at 11:29am »