Australian Politics Forum - Does Atheism really exist?

Linus

Senior Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 471
Gender: male

Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #360 - Sep 30^th, 2023 at 6:33pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 5:27pm:

Ok this is where I was at 👇

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 7:59am:

Linus wrote on Sep 29^th, 2023 at 1:57pm:

I have no problem with you personally believing in a god. However, if you want to extend that belief to me or anyone else, then do tell us all about these scientific or other arguments that you give your husband for your god's existence.

Ok Rumpelstiltskin

(Apologies for the delay in responding - we’ve been quite busy here)

These “scientific or other” arguments involve detailed conversations about private and confidential aspects which pertain to both our lives.

And besides all that “the proof” one atheist (ie my husband) requires isn’t necessarily equal to “the proof” another atheist (ie you) requires. As I see it ... all Atheists were created unequal.

Not to worry. I have the perfect solution for such a dilemma.

Throughout our conversations YOU have repeatedly asked for the proof of the existence of God. In order for me to understand what YOUR idea of what that proof looks like ... I’ll require an EXEMPLAR (note : you used that word not me).

Now let’s keep this simple:

The EXEMPLAR 👇

Prove to me that you exist.

Rumpelstiltskin doesn't exist. Does that mean you got me? Grin

Who are you talking to if I don't exist Lisa and who is talking back? You obviously think I exist.

Does your god interact like this with you? Has he some detectable interaction with the universe like you and I do?

Back to top

IP Logged

Lisa Jones

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 39047
Sydney
Gender: female

Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #361 - Sep 30^th, 2023 at 6:40pm

Linus wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 6:33pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 5:27pm:

Ok this is where I was at 👇

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 7:59am:

Linus wrote on Sep 29^th, 2023 at 1:57pm:

I have no problem with you personally believing in a god. However, if you want to extend that belief to me or anyone else, then do tell us all about these scientific or other arguments that you give your husband for your god's existence.

Ok Rumpelstiltskin

(Apologies for the delay in responding - we’ve been quite busy here)

These “scientific or other” arguments involve detailed conversations about private and confidential aspects which pertain to both our lives.

And besides all that “the proof” one atheist (ie my husband) requires isn’t necessarily equal to “the proof” another atheist (ie you) requires. As I see it ... all Atheists were created unequal.

Not to worry. I have the perfect solution for such a dilemma.

Throughout our conversations YOU have repeatedly asked for the proof of the existence of God. In order for me to understand what YOUR idea of what that proof looks like ... I’ll require an EXEMPLAR (note : you used that word not me).

Now let’s keep this simple:

The EXEMPLAR 👇

Prove to me that you exist.

Rumpelstiltskin doesn't exist. Does that mean you got me? Grin

Who are you talking to if I don't exist Lisa and who is talking back? You obviously think I exist.

Does your god interact like this with you?

Is “Linus” just a robot? We’ve all heard of AI. Perhaps “Linus” is the name for a computer program which types online.

Put up the arguments for YOUR real existence one by one, and let us all have a go at determining whether any one of the arguments are sufficient for accepting that you are a real person.

Back to top

If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

IP Logged

Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Does Atheism really exist? Reply #362 - Sep 30^th, 2023 at 6:44pm 2 can play this game Linus. You should have seen this coming.
Back to top	If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free. HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415) IP Logged

Linus

Senior Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 471
Gender: male

Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #363 - Sep 30^th, 2023 at 6:47pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 6:40pm:

Linus wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 6:33pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 5:27pm:

Ok this is where I was at 👇

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 7:59am:

Linus wrote on Sep 29^th, 2023 at 1:57pm:

I have no problem with you personally believing in a god. However, if you want to extend that belief to me or anyone else, then do tell us all about these scientific or other arguments that you give your husband for your god's existence.

Ok Rumpelstiltskin

(Apologies for the delay in responding - we’ve been quite busy here)

These “scientific or other” arguments involve detailed conversations about private and confidential aspects which pertain to both our lives.

And besides all that “the proof” one atheist (ie my husband) requires isn’t necessarily equal to “the proof” another atheist (ie you) requires. As I see it ... all Atheists were created unequal.

Not to worry. I have the perfect solution for such a dilemma.

Throughout our conversations YOU have repeatedly asked for the proof of the existence of God. In order for me to understand what YOUR idea of what that proof looks like ... I’ll require an EXEMPLAR (note : you used that word not me).

Now let’s keep this simple:

The EXEMPLAR 👇

Prove to me that you exist.

Rumpelstiltskin doesn't exist. Does that mean you got me? Grin

Who are you talking to if I don't exist Lisa and who is talking back? You obviously think I exist.

Does your god interact like this with you?

Is “Linus” just a robot?

We’ve all heard of AI.

Put up the arguments for YOUR real existence one by one, and let us all have a go at determining whether any one of the arguments are sufficient for accepting that you are a real person.

Oh, you initially asked whether I exist. No argument from you after my response. So, you accept I exist.

Now you're asking for my particular type of existence, which is another question and a shifting of the goal posts, you wily Theist.

I can easily demonstrate I'm a real person by meeting you in real life- that, by the way, is not an invitation.

I think you've gone down a futile path here, Lisa.

Back to top

IP Logged

Lisa Jones

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 39047
Sydney
Gender: female

Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #364 - Sep 30^th, 2023 at 7:20pm

Linus wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 6:47pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 6:40pm:

Linus wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 6:33pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 5:27pm:

Ok this is where I was at 👇

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 7:59am:

Linus wrote on Sep 29^th, 2023 at 1:57pm:

I have no problem with you personally believing in a god. However, if you want to extend that belief to me or anyone else, then do tell us all about these scientific or other arguments that you give your husband for your god's existence.

Ok Rumpelstiltskin

(Apologies for the delay in responding - we’ve been quite busy here)

These “scientific or other” arguments involve detailed conversations about private and confidential aspects which pertain to both our lives.

And besides all that “the proof” one atheist (ie my husband) requires isn’t necessarily equal to “the proof” another atheist (ie you) requires. As I see it ... all Atheists were created unequal.

Not to worry. I have the perfect solution for such a dilemma.

Throughout our conversations YOU have repeatedly asked for the proof of the existence of God. In order for me to understand what YOUR idea of what that proof looks like ... I’ll require an EXEMPLAR (note : you used that word not me).

Now let’s keep this simple:

The EXEMPLAR 👇

Prove to me that you exist.

Rumpelstiltskin doesn't exist. Does that mean you got me? Grin

Who are you talking to if I don't exist Lisa and who is talking back? You obviously think I exist.

Does your god interact like this with you?

Is “Linus” just a robot?

We’ve all heard of AI.

Put up the arguments for YOUR real existence one by one, and let us all have a go at determining whether any one of the arguments are sufficient for accepting that you are a real person.

Oh, you initially asked whether I exist. No argument from you after my response. So, you accept I exist.

Now you're asking for my particular type of existence, which is another question and a shifting of the goal posts, you wily Theist.

I can easily demonstrate I'm a real person by meeting you in real life- that, by the way, is not an invitation.

I think you've gone down a futile path here, Lisa.

No! You know that today I’ve repeatedly asked for you to prove that YOU exist? YOU ... a person a REAL person. Do YOU exist?

Stop pretending that you didn’t/couldn’t understand what I was asking of you.

You might well be a robot or a computer program designed to chat online.

Here’s YOUR opportunity to bask in the glory of your self professed ATHEISM and prove to me that YOU really do exist.

Let’s go through the PROOFS you’ve got for me.

I can easily demonstrate I'm a real person by meeting you in real life

👆 Sorry that’s not acceptable proof for me as a Theist. For all I know the Linus ID who is typing at me online could be organising another person to meet me in real time.

Note : We Theists ALSO have serious trust issues when it comes to believing lol.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Sep 30^th, 2023 at 7:27pm by Lisa Jones »

If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

IP Logged

Setanta

Gold Member

Offline

\/ Peace man!

Posts: 16616
Northern NSW
Gender: male

Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #365 - Sep 30^th, 2023 at 7:29pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 7:20pm:

Linus wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 6:47pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 6:40pm:

Linus wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 6:33pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 5:27pm:

Ok this is where I was at 👇

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 7:59am:

Linus wrote on Sep 29^th, 2023 at 1:57pm:

I have no problem with you personally believing in a god. However, if you want to extend that belief to me or anyone else, then do tell us all about these scientific or other arguments that you give your husband for your god's existence.

Ok Rumpelstiltskin

(Apologies for the delay in responding - we’ve been quite busy here)

These “scientific or other” arguments involve detailed conversations about private and confidential aspects which pertain to both our lives.

And besides all that “the proof” one atheist (ie my husband) requires isn’t necessarily equal to “the proof” another atheist (ie you) requires. As I see it ... all Atheists were created unequal.

Not to worry. I have the perfect solution for such a dilemma.

Throughout our conversations YOU have repeatedly asked for the proof of the existence of God. In order for me to understand what YOUR idea of what that proof looks like ... I’ll require an EXEMPLAR (note : you used that word not me).

Now let’s keep this simple:

The EXEMPLAR 👇

Prove to me that you exist.

Rumpelstiltskin doesn't exist. Does that mean you got me? Grin

Who are you talking to if I don't exist Lisa and who is talking back? You obviously think I exist.

Does your god interact like this with you?

Is “Linus” just a robot?

We’ve all heard of AI.

Put up the arguments for YOUR real existence one by one, and let us all have a go at determining whether any one of the arguments are sufficient for accepting that you are a real person.

Oh, you initially asked whether I exist. No argument from you after my response. So, you accept I exist.

Now you're asking for my particular type of existence, which is another question and a shifting of the goal posts, you wily Theist.

I can easily demonstrate I'm a real person by meeting you in real life- that, by the way, is not an invitation.

I think you've gone down a futile path here, Lisa.

No! You know that today I’ve repeatedly asked for you to prove that YOU exist? YOU ... a person a REAL person. Do YOU exist?

Stop pretending that you didn’t/couldn’t understand what I was asking of you.

You might well be a robot or a computer program designed to chat online.

Here’s YOUR opportunity to bask in the glory of your self professed ATHEISM and prove to me that YOU really do exist.

Let’s go through the PROOFS you’ve got for me.

I can easily demonstrate I'm a real person by meeting you in real life

👆 Sorry that’s not acceptable proof for me as a Theist. For all I know the Linus ID who is typing at me online could be organising another person to meet me in real time.

Note : We Theists ALSO have serious trust issues when it comes to believing lol.

Umm, if he can get someone to come in his place, he would have proven his existence.

Back to top

IP Logged

AusGeoff

Gold Member

Offline

Sage of Gippsland

Posts: 5999
Victoria
Gender: male

Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #366 - Sep 30^th, 2023 at 7:42pm

Frank wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 4:49pm:

Other very brainy people made some very good argument for the existence of god and honest testimonies about their own experiences of god. I am neither stupid or arrogant or adolescent enough to dismiss them all and claim to know better.

No living human being has ever "experienced" a god.
Or seen one, or spoken with one, or heard one.

Why? Because God or gods simply don't exist. All
of them are the product of superstition, myth, delusion,
ignorance, hysteria, hallucination, or fear. They're just
fantastical make believe figures, like Beowulf or King Arthur.

Gods, of all kinds are supernatural entities. End of story.

I also note you failed to address my earlier post:

Quote:

Can you tell me of one piece of evidence, of any degree,
that could prove the existence of God? Only one, single
piece of viable evidence that would stand up to scientific
scrutiny?

Back to top

IP Logged

Frank

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 46817
Gender: male

Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #367 - Sep 30^th, 2023 at 8:40pm

Linus wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 6:27pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 4:49pm:

Leibnitz presented a number of logical proofs of the existence of God.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/leibniz/

Spinoza also has an excellent argument.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/spinoza/#GodNatu

In our time, the Professor of Mathematics at Oxford has made a few arguments in various forums, here's one:

https://www.cslewisinstitute.org/resources/what-is-the-strongest-argument-suppor...

Other very brainy people made some very good argument for the existence of god and honest testimonies about their own experiences of god. I am neither stupid or arrogant or adolescent enough to dismiss them all and claim to know better.

And this is no argument for the existence of god(s), rather it's an appeal to authority. One could easily write that there are some "very brainy people" who have made some "very good argument(s)" for the rejection of god(s). Just look here at websites x, y, z.

Also, Leibniz and Lennox believe in the classical Christian god , Spinoza was more a pantheist ( "God is everything and everything is God")

Put up the arguments for God's existence one by one, Frank, and let us all have a go at determining whether any one of the arguments are sufficient for accepting a specific god or other gods.

Can you refute Leibnitz or Spinoza?

I can't.

Back to top

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

IP Logged

Lisa Jones

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 39047
Sydney
Gender: female

Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #368 - Sep 30^th, 2023 at 9:23pm

Setanta wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 7:29pm: