Australian Politics Forum - Does Atheism really exist?

mothra

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #780 - Nov 1^st, 2023 at 7:21am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 1^st, 2023 at 7:11am:

mothra wrote on Nov 1^st, 2023 at 6:52am:

But atheist, a noun, simply means a lack of belief in a god or gods.

It's a noun.

Theism is taught. Or perhaps perceived. But atheism is the noun we're all born with.

What's the relationship between nouns, verbs and adjectives?

Given we're born without any ideations other than instincts, it's meaningless to say we're born atheists.

And, given our temporal lobes are predisposed to intuiting what is not immediately obvious via our senses, if anything, we're born predisposed to theism, not atheism.

Who on earth said we were born with no ideas?

Dude, you've been missing out.

But all that aside, atheism means "lack of". So you've just proven my argument.

As for that last bit, what a load of crap. If anything, we're predisposed to curiosity.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #781 - Nov 1^st, 2023 at 7:46am

mothra wrote on Nov 1^st, 2023 at 7:21am:

Who on earth said we were born with no ideas?

Dude, you've been missing out.

But all that aside, atheism means "lack of". So you've just proven my argument.

As for that last bit, what a load of crap. If anything, we're predisposed to curiosity.

Can you share some of the ideas you had when you were a fetus?

How about when you were 6 months old?

Just predisposed to curiosity, eh! Why do you think kids quickly believe in, and become terrified of, demons and ghosts in the cupboard or under the bed?

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Frank

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #782 - Nov 1^st, 2023 at 9:14am

AusGeoff wrote on Oct 31^st, 2023 at 11:59pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 31^st, 2023 at 11:05am:

You can't think of talk about atheism unless you have some concept or definition of god of your own...

Not so at all Frank.

I'm an ignostic, and do not believe in the existence of
supernatural entities such as gods, devils, angels,
ghosts, or faeries.

See?

You DO have your own ideations, your own concepts of what you don't believe to exist physically.

You could not reject the existence of "supernatural entities such as gods, devils, angels,
ghosts, or faeries" if you had not formed any ideas about them.

Being inordinately blinkered positivist and 'scientistic' you talk AS IF only physical, sensory objects really existed. Which is, of course, nonsense.

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AusGeoff

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #783 - Nov 1^st, 2023 at 11:58pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 1^st, 2023 at 6:40am:

AusGeoff wrote on Oct 31^st, 2023 at 11:59pm:

I'm an ignostic, and do not believe in the existence of
supernatural entities such as gods, devils, angels,
ghosts, or faeries.

Ignosticism is the notion that the question of the
existence of God or gods is meaningless because the
word "god" has no coherent and unambiguous definition.

...So, you must now define a supernatural entity such that you can disbelieve in its existence (and the answer is not 'it goes without saying').

Do that and you'll find yourself back to defining 'god' before you can make the claim that you disbelieve in its existence.

The term "supernatural" does not define God or gods in any way, shape or form.

The supernatural is defined as entities, forces, and
events which are believed by some people to exist or
happen, although they're impossible according to
scientific laws.

Both God and Satan are described as supernatural,
so the term obviously can't define both LOL.

"Supernatural" refers to phenomena that're beyond
the laws of nature. Nothing more; nothing less.

And certainly not definitive in any way.

Can I ask you what, exactly, is your definition of God
and/or gods?

And can you tell me the differences between the
Christian god, and Dionysus, Jupiter, Quetzalcoatl,
Brahma, or the Rainbow Serpent?

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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 48853 Gender:	Re: Does Atheism really exist? Reply #784 - Nov 2^nd, 2023 at 6:22am The Rainbow Serpent is real. It's there in the sky for all to see. Your interpretation of the Supernatural is free to choose. But Supernatural is based on something very natural, even if it holds a mystery of what is 'to know', more than what 'is known'.
Back to top	AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY. IP Logged

MeisterEckhart

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #785 - Nov 2^nd, 2023 at 8:20am

AusGeoff wrote on Nov 1^st, 2023 at 11:58pm:

The term "supernatural" does not define God or gods in any way, shape or form.

The supernatural is defined as entities, forces, and events which are believed by some people to exist or happen, although they're impossible according to scientific laws.

Both God and Satan are described as supernatural, so the term bviously can't define both LOL.

"Supernatural" refers to phenomena that're beyond the laws of nature. Nothing more; nothing less.

And certainly not definitive in any way.

Can I ask you what, exactly, is your definition of God and/or gods?

And can you tell me the differences between the Christian god, and Dionysus, Jupiter, Quetzalcoatl, Brahma, or the Rainbow Serpent?

OK, so you've defined what supernatural is to you, what is your definition of god that you disbelieve exists?

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #786 - Nov 2^nd, 2023 at 10:48am

AusGeoff wrote on Nov 1^st, 2023 at 11:58pm:

Can I ask you what, exactly, is your definition of God and/or gods?

My definition(s) of god(s) arise from any one of four fundamental proposals:

Transcendental-Interventionist – a supernatural entity existing beyond time, space and material that created the universe and can and does intervene in this world either in favour, or to the detriment, of humans or the world.

Transcendental-Noninterventionist – a supernatural entity existing beyond time, space and material that created the universe but does not intervene in this world neither in favour, nor to the detriment of, humans or the world.

Immanent-Interventionist - a supernatural entity wholly present in all things in the universe and which is simultaneously the whole universe itself and can and does intervene in this world either in favour, or to the detriment, of humans or the world.

Immanent-Noninterventionist - a supernatural entity wholly present in all things in the universe and which is simultaneously the whole universe itself but does not intervene in this world neither in favour, nor to the detriment, of humans or the world.

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« Last Edit: Nov 2^nd, 2023 at 10:54am by MeisterEckhart »

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Frank

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #787 - Nov 2^nd, 2023 at 11:46am

AusGeoff wrote on Nov 1^st, 2023 at 11:58pm:

The term "supernatural" does not define God or gods in any way, shape or form.

The supernatural is defined as entities, forces, and
events which are believed by some people to exist or
happen, although they're impossible according to
scientific laws.

Both God and Satan are described as supernatural,
so the term obviously can't define both LOL.

"Supernatural" refers to phenomena that're beyond
the laws of nature. Nothing more; nothing less.

And certainly not definitive in any way.

Can I ask you what, exactly, is your definition of God
and/or gods?

And can you tell me the differences between the
Christian god, and Dionysus, Jupiter, Quetzalcoatl,
Brahma, or the Rainbow Serpent?

What utter, jumbled, confused drivel!

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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 48853 Gender:	Re: Does Atheism really exist? Reply #788 - Nov 2^nd, 2023 at 2:30pm You're not wrong there.
Back to top	AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY. IP Logged

AusGeoff

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #789 - Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 1:37am

Frank wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2023 at 11:46am:

AusGeoff wrote on Nov 1^st, 2023 at 11:58pm:

The term "supernatural" does not define God or gods in any way, shape or form.

The supernatural is defined as entities, forces, and
events which are believed by some people to exist or
happen, although they're impossible according to
scientific laws.

Both God and Satan are described as supernatural,
so the term obviously can't define both LOL.

"Supernatural" refers to phenomena that're beyond
the laws of nature. Nothing more; nothing less.

And certainly not definitive in any way.

Can I ask you what, exactly, is your definition of God
and/or gods?

And can you tell me the differences between the
Christian god, and Dionysus, Jupiter, Quetzalcoatl,
Brahma, or the Rainbow Serpent?

What utter, jumbled, confused drivel!

I have to thank you (again) Frank for your detailed,
insightful response outlining your criticism of my
claims about gods and the supernatural. That
you've taken so much time in researching this topic
is obvious from the elegant yet impactful response
you've posted.

And I'm sure a lot of people here will also appreciate that too.

I know for example Wombatwoody, Baronvonrort, Aquascoot,
and JaSin will—as the arbiters of well-founded argument
across these forums.

🙄

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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Does Atheism really exist? Reply #790 - Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 8:10am 53 pages thanks to a bunch of atheists chatting about God. Such dedication. As a Christian I’m impressed.
Back to top	If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free. HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415) IP Logged

MeisterEckhart

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #791 - Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 8:53am

AusGeoff wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 1:37am:

I have to thank you (again) Frank for your detailed, insightful response outlining your criticism of my claims about gods and the supernatural. That you've taken so much time in researching this topic is obvious from the elegant yet impactful response you've posted.

OK, now that you've got that off your chest, will you post your definition of the god(s) you disbelieve exists?

AusGeoff wrote on Nov 1^st, 2023 at 11:58pm:

Can I ask you what, exactly, is your definition of God and/or gods?

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Jasin

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #792 - Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 9:20am

Lisa Jones wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 8:10am:

53 pages thanks to a bunch of atheists chatting about God.

Such dedication. As a Christian I’m impressed.

I'm not an Atheist Lisa.

I'm Pro-Religious and Pro-Science.

If Atheists had the balls to admit that they are Pro-Science, Pro-Media (especially) and American Music.
Maybe they could enjoy a happier life rather than being HATERS of Religion which is what Atheism is.

Either way, they cease to really exist. Wink

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #793 - Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 9:39am

Jasin wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 9:20am:

HATERS of Religion which is what Atheism is.

A sweeping and superficial statement.

Religion is generally used to refer to those precepts of a moral code that bind a person to a specific community - being something, in one form or another, we all subscribe to.

Religion, in the context of the metaphysical, does not need a god figure at its centre - Buddhism, for example, is characterised as a non-theistic religion.

In Buddhism, an immanent-interventionist force - often referred to as 'the One' - is the driver of all life's progression towards liberation from ignorance - i.e. enlightenment - and then into a state of Nirvana. No god is required.

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Frank

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #794 - Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 9:53am

AusGeoff wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 1:37am:

Frank wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2023 at 11:46am:

AusGeoff wrote on Nov 1^st, 2023 at 11:58pm:

The term "supernatural" does not define God or gods in any way, shape or form.

The supernatural is defined as entities, forces, and
events which are believed by some people to exist or
happen, although they're impossible according to
scientific laws.

Both God and Satan are described as supernatural,
so the term obviously can't define both LOL.

"Supernatural" refers to phenomena that're beyond
the laws of nature. Nothing more; nothing less.

And certainly not definitive in any way.

Can I ask you what, exactly, is your definition of God
and/or gods?

And can you tell me the differences between the
Christian god, and Dionysus, Jupiter, Quetzalcoatl,
Brahma, or the Rainbow Serpent?

What utter, jumbled, confused drivel!

I have to thank you (again) Frank for your detailed,
insightful response outlining your criticism of my
claims about gods and the supernatural. That
you've taken so much time in researching this topic
is obvious from the elegant yet impactful response
you've posted.

And I'm sure a lot of people here will also appreciate that too.

I know for example Wombatwoody, Baronvonrort, Aquascoot,
and JaSin will—as the arbiters of well-founded argument
across these forums.

🙄

It's confused drivel because you can hold two glaringly contradictory notions simultaneously within the space of two short paragraphs - see highlights - AND being totally oblivious to it.
And then you are asking for an explanation!!

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« Last Edit: Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 12:41pm by Frank »

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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Poll
Question: Atheism - how do YOU define it?
Not believing in GOD? 6 (50.0%) Believing in NO GOD? 6 (50.0%) Total votes: 12 « Created by: Lisa Jones on: Sep 28^th, 2023 at 11:29am »