Australian Politics Forum - Does Atheism really exist?

Linus

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #285 - Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:45pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:40pm:

Linus wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:32pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:27pm:

Linus wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:11pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:10pm:

Linus wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 7:10pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 7:08pm:

Linus wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 6:57pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 2:34pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 2:22pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 2:19pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 2:18pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 1:07pm:

Even so they (atheists) can’t provide a shred of evidence that God doesn’t exist. Look at this topic for a clue.

How do you prove god doesn't exist?

That’s a problem for Atheists to sort out.

Actually lisa,
don't fall for that one -
you can't disprove a negative -

example -

prove that there's not a Leprechaun at the bottom of my garden.

You can prove, say, that there's no cockroach in your coffee cup.

If it's a Theistic cockroach, you can't. Oh, ok, I'll go further, you can't prove there's no cockroach in your coffee cup. A Theist will pop up and say the cockroach in your cup invisible and doesn't interact with matter. S(he) may even argue that it's there but you've hardened your eyeballs to it and therefore you can't see it. And it doesn't have to be a Theist, it could be a Booby.

That is just too stupid. You are not a representative of atheism or anything else but inchoate idiocy.

What's your argument against it? The point is that you can't prove a negative.

That is an idiotic, stupid, mindless, moronic thing to say. Empty, stupid glibness.

You are not a cockroach. Gregor K wasn't a cockroach. The moon is not made of cheese. There are NO snakes in Antarctica, nor bees.

There is no 30th of February.

In what universe?

What a stupid question. How many do you know of?

Ever hear of Everett universes?

Ever hear that most scientists don’t believe/trust/agree with Everett’s ideas ?

I haven't seen a poll. Yes, this is still controversial. At least some do think Everett universes are a viable interpretation of Quantum Mechanics

Even in this universe, Frank's criticism would be struggling. It can always be evaded.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #286 - Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:46pm

Linus wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:37pm:

I didn't vote. And when I looked only two had voted. If you come up to me and say there is a god, then I want you to convince me there is one. That's my Atheism.

That’s not how it works Linus. It doesn’t function in the way you demand. All I can say to you is that I KNOW there is a God. And as regards convincing you ... again it doesn’t function as per your demand (expressed as “I want you” in your post).

All I can say to you is HOW I KNOW God exists. The convincing isn’t even in my position description. It’s in yours.

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« Last Edit: Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:51pm by Lisa Jones »

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Linus

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #287 - Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:57pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:46pm:

Linus wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:37pm:

I didn't vote. And when I looked only two had voted. If you come up to me and say there is a god, then I want you to convince me there is one. That's my Atheism.

That’s not how it works Linus. It doesn’t function in the way you demand. All I can say to you is that I KNOW there is a God. And as regards convincing you ... again it doesn’t function as per your demand (expressed as “I want you” in your post).

All I can say to you is HOW I KNOW God exists. The convincing isn’t in my position description. It’s in yours.

You know, when debating the existence of god, private beliefs and personal perceptions of gods don't pass muster in the public square.

If you want to privately hold to a belief in a god , that's entirely your prerogative and business. But when you step out into the public arena and want to convince the public then high standard of evidence is required.

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Frank Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 46843 Gender:	Re: Does Atheism really exist? Reply #288 - Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:57pm There is a god even in an atheist universe. The idea of God is impossible to exclude, even for atheists. Atheists engage with the idea of God even to define themselves. Talk about omnipresent.
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Frank

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #289 - Sep 28^th, 2023 at 10:02pm

Linus wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:57pm:

You know, when debating the existence of god, private beliefs and personal perceptions of gods, don't pass muster in the public square.

If you want to privately hold to a belief in a god , that's entirely your prerogative and business. But when you step out into the public arena and want to convince the public then high standard of evidence is required.

What ELSE is there but private beliefs and personal perceptions?

Even 'standards of evidence' is a matter of p private beliefs and personal perceptions. Some of it is shared more, some less.

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 47507 Gender:	Re: Does Atheism really exist? Reply #290 - Sep 28^th, 2023 at 10:03pm Only while we escape the dead hand of religion. You are only talking of the here and now. Couple of hundred years from now religion is of interest only to historians.
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Linus

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #291 - Sep 28^th, 2023 at 10:12pm

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:57pm:

There is a god even in an atheist universe.

The idea of God is impossible to exclude, even for atheists. Atheists engage with the idea of God even to define themselves.

Talk about omnipresent.

There's the concept and then there's the reality. The argument lies in the reality.

Think of an atheist as a person who has never heard of gods before, and you come along and say one or some exist, and it or them want us to do this or that. Well, that person is going to demand you define your god and make a convincing case for its existence.

That's my take on Atheism.

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Frank

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #292 - Sep 28^th, 2023 at 10:16pm

Linus wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 10:12pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:57pm:

There is a god even in an atheist universe.

The idea of God is impossible to exclude, even for atheists. Atheists engage with the idea of God even to define themselves.

Talk about omnipresent.

There's the concept and then there's the reality. The argument lies in the reality.

Think of an atheist as a person who has never heard of gods before, and you come along and say one or some exist, and it or them want us to do this or that. Well, that person is going to demand you define your god and make a convincing case for its existence.

That's my take on Atheism.

'Reality' is a concept.

An A-theist cannot be a person who has never heard of God's before. The very word, atheist, has the concept of God at its root.

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Linus

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #293 - Sep 28^th, 2023 at 10:17pm

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 10:02pm:

Linus wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:57pm:

You know, when debating the existence of god, private beliefs and personal perceptions of gods, don't pass muster in the public square.

If you want to privately hold to a belief in a god , that's entirely your prerogative and business. But when you step out into the public arena and want to convince the public then high standard of evidence is required.

What ELSE is there but private beliefs and personal perceptions?

Even 'standards of evidence' is a matter of p private beliefs and personal perceptions. Some of it is shared more, some less.

Now you're really getting into the philosophical weeds.

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Frank

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #294 - Sep 28^th, 2023 at 10:22pm

Linus wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 10:17pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 10:02pm:

Linus wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:57pm:

You know, when debating the existence of god, private beliefs and personal perceptions of gods, don't pass muster in the public square.

If you want to privately hold to a belief in a god , that's entirely your prerogative and business. But when you step out into the public arena and want to convince the public then high standard of evidence is required.

What ELSE is there but private beliefs and personal perceptions?

Even 'standards of evidence' is a matter of private beliefs and personal perceptions. Some of it is shared more, some less.

Now you're really getting into the philosophical weeds.

You introduced the concepts, without, it seems, understanding them.

I am not surprised. You do talk incoherent, random and very rudimentary shite.

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Linus

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #295 - Sep 28^th, 2023 at 11:07pm

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 10:16pm:

Linus wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 10:12pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:57pm:

There is a god even in an atheist universe.

The idea of God is impossible to exclude, even for atheists. Atheists engage with the idea of God even to define themselves.

Talk about omnipresent.

There's the concept and then there's the reality. The argument lies in the reality.

Think of an atheist as a person who has never heard of gods before, and you come along and say one or some exist, and it or them want us to do this or that. Well, that person is going to demand you define your god and make a convincing case for its existence.

That's my take on Atheism.

'Reality' is a concept.

An A-theist cannot be a person who has never heard of God's before. The very word, atheist, has the concept of God at its root.

That's tricky.

Is a concept something in your mind and can you distinguish it from something outside your mind? Or is everything in your mind? Are there other minds? Is there an out there beyond your mind?

When you're talking god(s), I assume you're taking something to be real and outside your mind. Otherwise, there are no grounds for coming to a determination or discovering anything if it's all just a concept or concepts in your head.

Atheism is a label. I'm a person who needs to be convinced about god(s) when you're telling me they exist and they want certain things of me. You call me an Atheist.

Next person comes along and asks me for my take on god(s). Well, I'm called an Atheist. I may not necessarily know about god(s), I'm just asking you,the Theist, to tell me all about them and what they want. I'm not being anti or dependent. You're coming to me and saying this is how it is. Well, great, I'm saying convince me.

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Frank

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #296 - Sep 28^th, 2023 at 11:11pm

Linus wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 11:07pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 10:16pm:

Linus wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 10:12pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:57pm:

There is a god even in an atheist universe.

The idea of God is impossible to exclude, even for atheists. Atheists engage with the idea of God even to define themselves.

Talk about omnipresent.

There's the concept and then there's the reality. The argument lies in the reality.

Think of an atheist as a person who has never heard of gods before, and you come along and say one or some exist, and it or them want us to do this or that. Well, that person is going to demand you define your god and make a convincing case for its existence.

That's my take on Atheism.

'Reality' is a concept.

An A-theist cannot be a person who has never heard of God's before. The very word, atheist, has the concept of God at its root.

That's tricky.

Is a concept something in your mind and can you distinguish it from something outside your mind? Or is everything in your mind? Are there other minds? Is there an out there beyond your mind?

****ing hell!!!

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Linus

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #297 - Sep 28^th, 2023 at 11:12pm

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 10:22pm:

Linus wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 10:17pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 10:02pm:

Linus wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:57pm:

You know, when debating the existence of god, private beliefs and personal perceptions of gods, don't pass muster in the public square.

If you want to privately hold to a belief in a god , that's entirely your prerogative and business. But when you step out into the public arena and want to convince the public then high standard of evidence is required.

What ELSE is there but private beliefs and personal perceptions?

Even 'standards of evidence' is a matter of private beliefs and personal perceptions. Some of it is shared more, some less.

Now you're really getting into the philosophical weeds.

You introduced the concepts, without, it seems, understanding them.

I am not surprised. You do talk incoherent, random and very rudimentary shite.

I've not heard anything better from you. The area is complex and is endlessly discussed and debated in philosophy. It seems that you're unaware.

Being a dick , Frank, doesn't prove anything other than you're a dick. If you want to talk come and talk, leave your mouth at the door.

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« Last Edit: Sep 28^th, 2023 at 11:25pm by Linus »

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Linus

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #298 - Sep 28^th, 2023 at 11:20pm

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 11:11pm:

Linus wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 11:07pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 10:16pm:

Linus wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 10:12pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:57pm:

There is a god even in an atheist universe.

The idea of God is impossible to exclude, even for atheists. Atheists engage with the idea of God even to define themselves.

Talk about omnipresent.

There's the concept and then there's the reality. The argument lies in the reality.

Think of an atheist as a person who has never heard of gods before, and you come along and say one or some exist, and it or them want us to do this or that. Well, that person is going to demand you define your god and make a convincing case for its existence.

That's my take on Atheism.

'Reality' is a concept.

An A-theist cannot be a person who has never heard of God's before. The very word, atheist, has the concept of God at its root.

That's tricky.

Is a concept something in your mind and can you distinguish it from something outside your mind? Or is everything in your mind? Are there other minds? Is there an out there beyond your mind?

****ing hell!!!

You're saying reality is a concept. Prove it. I'd say it's something that we conceptualise about and it's objective.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #299 - Sep 28^th, 2023 at 11:33pm

Linus wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:57pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:46pm:

Linus wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:37pm:

I didn't vote. And when I looked only two had voted. If you come up to me and say there is a god, then I want you to convince me there is one. That's my Atheism.

That’s not how it works Linus. It doesn’t function in the way you demand. All I can say to you is that I KNOW there is a God. And as regards convincing you ... again it doesn’t function as per your demand (expressed as “I want you” in your post).

All I can say to you is HOW I KNOW God exists. The convincing isn’t in my position description. It’s in yours.

You know, when debating the existence of god, private beliefs and personal perceptions of gods don't pass muster in the public square.

If you want to privately hold to a belief in a god , that's entirely your prerogative and business. But when you step out into the public arena and want to convince the public then high standard of evidence is required.

1. High standard of evidence is required? Says who?

2. Who gets to define high standard?

3. Who gave those in 2. that privilege?

4. Who gave those in 3 that privilege?

N. Who gave those in (N-1) that privilege?

We’ve reached asymptotes....infinity even.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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Poll
Question: Atheism - how do YOU define it?
Not believing in GOD? 6 (50.0%) Believing in NO GOD? 6 (50.0%) Total votes: 12 « Created by: Lisa Jones on: Sep 28^th, 2023 at 11:29am »