Australian Politics Forum - Does Atheism really exist?

Linus

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #300 - Sep 28^th, 2023 at 11:41pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 11:33pm:

Linus wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:57pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:46pm:

Linus wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:37pm:

I didn't vote. And when I looked only two had voted. If you come up to me and say there is a god, then I want you to convince me there is one. That's my Atheism.

That’s not how it works Linus. It doesn’t function in the way you demand. All I can say to you is that I KNOW there is a God. And as regards convincing you ... again it doesn’t function as per your demand (expressed as “I want you” in your post).

All I can say to you is HOW I KNOW God exists. The convincing isn’t in my position description. It’s in yours.

You know, when debating the existence of god, private beliefs and personal perceptions of gods don't pass muster in the public square.

If you want to privately hold to a belief in a god , that's entirely your prerogative and business. But when you step out into the public arena and want to convince the public then high standard of evidence is required.

1. High standard of evidence is required? Says who?

2. Who gets to define high standard?

3. Who gave those in 2. that privilege?

4. Who gave those in 3 that privilege?

N. Who gave those in (N-1) that privilege?

We’ve reached asymptotes....infinity even.

I'm saying if you want to convince the public , don't you think its obligatory on you to provide convincing evidence?

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #301 - Sep 28^th, 2023 at 11:44pm

Linus wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 11:41pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 11:33pm:

Linus wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:57pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:46pm:

Linus wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:37pm:

I didn't vote. And when I looked only two had voted. If you come up to me and say there is a god, then I want you to convince me there is one. That's my Atheism.

That’s not how it works Linus. It doesn’t function in the way you demand. All I can say to you is that I KNOW there is a God. And as regards convincing you ... again it doesn’t function as per your demand (expressed as “I want you” in your post).

All I can say to you is HOW I KNOW God exists. The convincing isn’t in my position description. It’s in yours.

You know, when debating the existence of god, private beliefs and personal perceptions of gods don't pass muster in the public square.

If you want to privately hold to a belief in a god , that's entirely your prerogative and business. But when you step out into the public arena and want to convince the public then high standard of evidence is required.

1. High standard of evidence is required? Says who?

2. Who gets to define high standard?

3. Who gave those in 2. that privilege?

4. Who gave those in 3 that privilege?

N. Who gave those in (N-1) that privilege?

We’ve reached asymptotes....infinity even.

I'm saying if you want to convince the public , don't you think its obligatory on you to provide convincing evidence?

And I keep telling you my position is NOT to convince you or anyone else...including the public of the existence of God.

Are you in a position to convince me of the existence of NO God?

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #302 - Sep 28^th, 2023 at 11:49pm

Did you catch this post Linus?

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 1:07pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 12:52pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 12:27pm:

Frank

Could you read this then look around at who (in this topic) is guilty of it.

The Presumption Of Atheism

1. In the absence of evidence for the existence of God we should presume that God does not exist.

2. Atheism is a default position.

3. Thus the Theist bears a special burden of proof with regard to their belief that God exists.

The problem with The Presumption Of Atheism.

1. The assertion that “There is no God” is just as much a claim to knowledge as is the assertion that “There is a God.”

2. As such...the former assertion requires justification just as the latter does.

For theists, there is lots of evidence of the existence of God. Atheists don't accept any of them as evidence.

I think a lot of atheists are actually pantheists.

Agreed.

Even so they (atheists) can’t provide a shred of evidence that God doesn’t exist. Look at this topic for a clue.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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Linus

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #303 - Sep 28^th, 2023 at 11:58pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 11:44pm:

Linus wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 11:41pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 11:33pm:

Linus wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:57pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:46pm:

Linus wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:37pm:

I didn't vote. And when I looked only two had voted. If you come up to me and say there is a god, then I want you to convince me there is one. That's my Atheism.

That’s not how it works Linus. It doesn’t function in the way you demand. All I can say to you is that I KNOW there is a God. And as regards convincing you ... again it doesn’t function as per your demand (expressed as “I want you” in your post).

All I can say to you is HOW I KNOW God exists. The convincing isn’t in my position description. It’s in yours.

You know, when debating the existence of god, private beliefs and personal perceptions of gods don't pass muster in the public square.

If you want to privately hold to a belief in a god , that's entirely your prerogative and business. But when you step out into the public arena and want to convince the public then high standard of evidence is required.

1. High standard of evidence is required? Says who?

2. Who gets to define high standard?

3. Who gave those in 2. that privilege?

4. Who gave those in 3 that privilege?

N. Who gave those in (N-1) that privilege?

We’ve reached asymptotes....infinity even.

I'm saying if you want to convince the public , don't you think its obligatory on you to provide convincing evidence?

And I keep telling you my position is NOT to convince you or anyone else...including the public of the existence of God.

Are you able to convince me of the existence of NO God?

Ok, fine, there is no argument. You want to believe that a god exists. I have already said that's all well and good. It's a private matter for you. However, once you venture into the public square, you have to expect to get challenged and consequently you will need evidence ,if your aim is to convince others. If it's not your aim, and that's what you've stated, then there's no argument to be had between us on this issue.

I can't convince you there's no god anymore than you can convince me there are no invisible unicorns.

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« Last Edit: Sep 29^th, 2023 at 12:07am by Linus »

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 47507 Gender:	Re: Does Atheism really exist? Reply #304 - Sep 29^th, 2023 at 6:33am “you have to expect to get challenged” that is not bearable by autistics who think they know more and matter more than they actually do. Larry says he believes in god. His behavior here contradicts that but whatever. He cannot DEMONSTRATE that god exists.
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Frank

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #305 - Sep 29^th, 2023 at 9:26am

Linus wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 11:58pm:

Ok, fine, there is no argument. You want to believe that a god exists. I have already said that's all well and good. It's a private matter for you. However, once you venture into the public square, you have to expect to get challenged and consequently you will need evidence ,if your aim is to convince others. If it's not your aim, and that's what you've stated, then there's no argument to be had between us on this issue.

That "need evidence in the public square" must cut both ways.

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 48887 Gender:	Re: Does Atheism really exist? Reply #306 - Sep 29^th, 2023 at 9:47am Even the Voting Poll above proves that Atheism is an Anti against Religion, rather than Pro something else. Therefore - Atheism ceases to really exist.
Back to top	AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY. IP Logged

Lisa Jones

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #307 - Sep 29^th, 2023 at 10:02am

Frank wrote on Sep 29^th, 2023 at 9:26am:

Linus wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 11:58pm:

Ok, fine, there is no argument. You want to believe that a god exists. I have already said that's all well and good. It's a private matter for you. However, once you venture into the public square, you have to expect to get challenged and consequently you will need evidence ,if your aim is to convince others. If it's not your aim, and that's what you've stated, then there's no argument to be had between us on this issue.

That "need evidence in the public square" must cut both ways.

Precisely!

The Presumption Of Atheism

1. In the absence of evidence for the existence of God we should presume that God does not exist.

2. Atheism is a default position.

3. Thus the Theist bears a special burden of proof with regard to their belief that God exists.

The problem with The Presumption Of Atheism.

1. The assertion that “There is no God” is just as much a claim to knowledge as is the assertion that “There is a God.”

2. As such...the former assertion requires justification just as the latter does.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Does Atheism really exist? Reply #308 - Sep 29^th, 2023 at 10:06am Jasin wrote on Sep 29^th, 2023 at 9:47am: Even the Voting Poll above proves that Atheism is an Anti against Religion, rather than Pro something else. Therefore - Atheism ceases to really exist. 👆 Here comes trouble 😂🤣😆 I BELIEVE it’s because of you that THIS TOPIC EXISTS! 🤭🤭🤭
Back to top	If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free. HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415) IP Logged

Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 47507 Gender:	Re: Does Atheism really exist? Reply #309 - Sep 29^th, 2023 at 10:11am BWAHAHAHAHAHA HM voted? 2? 3? A statistician wouldn’t even look at a sample with under 700 cases. Atheism is the recognition that gods do not exist.
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Frank Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 46819 Gender:	Re: Does Atheism really exist? Reply #310 - Sep 29^th, 2023 at 10:31am Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 29^th, 2023 at 10:11am: BWAHAHAHAHAHA HM voted? 2? 3? A statistician wouldn’t even look at a sample with under 700 cases. Atheism is the belief recognition that gods do not exist. Fixed your stumble.
Back to top	Estragon: I can’t go on like this. Vladimir: That’s what you think. IP Logged

Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 47507 Gender:	Re: Does Atheism really exist? Reply #311 - Sep 29^th, 2023 at 10:49am It is a recognition that there is not a shred of evidence for any of the supernatural rubbish.
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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 58694 Here Gender:	Re: Does Atheism really exist? Reply #312 - Sep 29^th, 2023 at 10:55am Quote: Does Atheism really exist? 80 million people claiming to be atheist exist. While the majority of us disagree with atheism it is hardly possible to have your head deep enough in the sand to question its existence.
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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #313 - Sep 29^th, 2023 at 10:57am

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:57pm:

There is a god even in an atheist universe.

The idea of God is impossible to exclude, even for atheists. Atheists engage with the idea of God even to define themselves.

Talk about omnipresent.

Only in the context that 'god' 'exists' for atheists as Zeus 'exists' as a 'god' for modern Greeks.

The concept of a thing or phenomenon can exist in the mind without it necessarily existing objectively, e.g. fictional characters in a novel.

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AusGeoff

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #314 - Sep 29^th, 2023 at 11:01am

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 12:52pm:

...For theists, there is lots of evidence of the existence of God. Atheists don't accept any of them as evidence.

Not so Frank. There is, unequivocally, no empirical evidence
that would support the notion of the existence of God and/or gods.
If you claim you know of proofs, then you might like to post them here.

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 12:52pm:

...I think a lot of atheists are actually pantheists.

Then you think wrongly, and I'd be guessing from your responses in
this thread that you don't know precisely what atheism is—which I'd
also claim of a few other people here as well.

I also note that many people like to play their pointless games of
semantics—when none are needed, and which don't make for a
meaningful debate anyway.

To wit...

Not believing in GOD? or Believing in NO GOD? poll.

This is, in actuality, asking the same question.

Rephrasing the subject of the question by replacing "God"
with "unicorns" proves this; it's just semantics.

And here's a little challenge nobody will be able to respond to: It's
one I ask of people who ask me—as an atheist—to prove that God
doesn't exist. And when I quite rightly say I can't, they then gloat
over their supposed "victory". Poor fools.

So... prove that unicorns do not exist. Anyone?

Wink

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Poll
Question: Atheism - how do YOU define it?
Not believing in GOD? 6 (50.0%) Believing in NO GOD? 6 (50.0%) Total votes: 12 « Created by: Lisa Jones on: Sep 28^th, 2023 at 11:29am »