Australian Politics Forum - Does Atheism really exist?

Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 58268 Here Gender:	Re: Does Atheism really exist? Reply #30 - Sep 24^th, 2023 at 12:02pm Quote: Does Atheism really exist? The 750 Million atheists would likely say yes.
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Jasin

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #31 - Sep 24^th, 2023 at 12:10pm

Dnarever wrote on Sep 24^th, 2023 at 12:02pm:

Quote:

Does Atheism really exist?

The 750 Million atheists would likely say yes.

And yet they offer nothing for their existence except hatred for Religion.
Even 'Animists' have a reason to exist with a 'Pro' rather than an empty 'Anti' like a Replicant from Bladerunner.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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Dnarever

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #32 - Sep 24^th, 2023 at 12:22pm

Jasin wrote on Sep 24^th, 2023 at 12:10pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 24^th, 2023 at 12:02pm:

Quote:

Does Atheism really exist?

The 750 Million atheists would likely say yes.

And yet they offer nothing for their existence except hatred for Religion.
Even 'Animists' have a reason to exist with a 'Pro' rather than an empty 'Anti' like a Replicant from Bladerunner.

I don't know that there is hatred involved on the majority. The point is that it does exist.

Denying the existence of Atheism is like denying that the sun will rise tomorrow.

However it is actually certain that the sun will not rise tomorrow as it has never risen. The reality is that Tomorrow morning we will rotate towards the sun - the sun is going nowhere.

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« Last Edit: Sep 24^th, 2023 at 12:29pm by Dnarever »

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Dnarever

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #33 - Sep 24^th, 2023 at 12:28pm

Jasin wrote on Sep 24^th, 2023 at 12:10pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 24^th, 2023 at 12:02pm:

Quote:

Does Atheism really exist?

The 750 Million atheists would likely say yes.

And yet they offer nothing for their existence except hatred for Religion.
Even 'Animists' have a reason to exist with a 'Pro' rather than an empty 'Anti' like a Replicant from Bladerunner.

Try replacing the belief in our religion with say one of the old sun god religions. Do you see the non belief in a sun god as an anti philosophy rather than a Pro position in the same way ? It seems like nonsense to me. It doesn't mean that you would be offering nothing for your existence to not believe in the coco pops god.

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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 45240 Gender:	Re: Does Atheism really exist? Reply #34 - Sep 24^th, 2023 at 12:36pm Nobody can define God definitively. It is all surmise and conjecture, some more convincing or imaginative or compelling than others. Atheism is similarly undefined since it is denying something that is undefinable - unless you take the Marxist stance and saym "whaever it is, I'm against it".
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Jasin

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #35 - Sep 24^th, 2023 at 1:26pm

Your twisting of words Dnarever shows your inability to comprehend that an 'Anti' is nothing more than a replication of that which it hates, despises and is Anti against. That is, in regards to Atheism - an Anti against Religion.
Take Religion away from the equation and Atheism ceases to exist at all, let alone as just a replicant in the negative. A shadow.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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issuevoter

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #36 - Sep 24^th, 2023 at 4:36pm

Jasin wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2023 at 7:48pm:

No it doesn't.
Well it doesn't even have a Logo picture on this Forum and it pretty much sums up Atheism's illusion.
In fact, Atheism's identity is basically 'dependent' on Religion as an Anti-Religion and nothing more.
Just people in black skivvys, sipping inner-city cafe-latte's, watching the latest 'Media' fad and trend and pretending to be more 'fashionable' than a Spiritualist.

Time this Board is removed and sent to where it really belongs: The Non-Existentialist bin for Anti-Religious people.

First of all, do you realise what a cliche your critique of latte drinkers is? Its like you are doing that recent TV ad for EVs where the skeptic Russel Coight plays a bumbling fool. You should also know that "skivvy" means different things depending on region.

But there is something in your suggestion that Atheism is dependent. Society has been forced by Theism to choose from a trichotomy, whether we are a believer (God Freak), an agnostic, or an atheist. I reject the trichotomy as the only prespectives of Cosmic Truth. I am none of these. There is at least another perspective, if not more.

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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 47678 Gender:	Re: Does Atheism really exist? Reply #37 - Sep 24^th, 2023 at 5:11pm Because they're the cliche stereotype that was created by the most 'outspoken' of their types.
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issuevoter

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #38 - Sep 24^th, 2023 at 9:14pm

Jasin wrote on Sep 24^th, 2023 at 5:11pm:

Because they're the cliche stereotype that was created by the most 'outspoken' of their types.

I don't know who you are listening to. They live in the cities, where certain clothes like a uniform, and drink coffee, which you can get in any country town. Why not stick to whatever you want to say about Atheists without all that stupid stuff?

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Jasin

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #39 - Sep 24^th, 2023 at 10:02pm

issuevoter wrote on Sep 24^th, 2023 at 9:14pm:

Jasin wrote on Sep 24^th, 2023 at 5:11pm:

Because they're the cliche stereotype that was created by the most 'outspoken' of their types.

I don't know who you are listening to. They live in the cities, where certain clothes like a uniform, and drink coffee, which you can get in any country town. Why not stick to whatever you want to say about Atheists without all that stupid stuff?

Ok. Here's the thing. Atheists instead of calling themselves Atheists should just let Religion go and call themselves Scientific believers, Musicians and other Media caffe-latte 'SNOBS'.
How's that.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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AusGeoff

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #40 - Sep 25^th, 2023 at 2:20am

Frank wrote on Sep 24^th, 2023 at 11:04am:

AusGeoff wrote on Sep 24^th, 2023 at 2:28am:

"Does Atheism really exist?"

Yes, of course it does; it's nothing more than a personal
state of mind like love, anguish, or fear...

It is embarrassingly easy to point out that there is no empirical evidence of your atheist belief just as there is no empirical evidence of any other concepts, ideas, beliefs.

I think you logic and your claims are a bit lacking here Frank.

It's of course impossible to provide any empirical
evidence for a thought or belief held only in one's
own brain. It's also impossible to provide any
evidence for a so-called non-belief. I'm betting you
don't have any belief in, say, unicorns—but you
can't give me any supporting evidence for that belief.

And, of course, there is more than adequate empirical
evidence for other beliefs or concepts, to wit; magnetism,
gravity, electrical force, nuclear radiation, periodicity,
momentum and inertia etc.

Quote:

It is also too easy to point out that anything supernatural would not be accessible to natural, empirical experience.

Uh... yes mate. That's why it's called supernatural
—meaning "above or beyond", in this case science.

Quote:

Theism and your atheism are empirically experienced in their performance in speech and behaviour, which are accessible to empirical sense experience.

Nope. I'm getting the impression that you don't really
understand what atheism is. Atheistic non-belief doesn't
need the presumption that God or gods could exist in
order to exist in and of itself. And my atheism doesn't
need verbalising or any particular behaviour on my part
to prove it exists. It just is.

Atheism, at its core is nothing more than a state of mind.

And remember too that (religious) faith is simply belief
without evidence.

Quote:

So your smug little QED is meaningless and you have shown nothing to resolve or conclude this centuries old debate.

LOL... my QED was "smug", Well I guess at the least it
struck a raw nerve with you Frank. Sorry.

Can I ask you to clarify what it is that you refer to as
"this centuries old debate"? Do you mean the existence
or non-existence of God or gods?

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« Last Edit: Sep 25^th, 2023 at 2:37am by AusGeoff »

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AusGeoff

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #41 - Sep 25^th, 2023 at 2:31am

Jasin wrote on Sep 24^th, 2023 at 12:10pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 24^th, 2023 at 12:02pm:

Quote:

Does Atheism really exist?

The 750 Million atheists would likely say yes.

And yet they offer nothing for their existence except hatred for Religion...

This means you have no real concept of exactly what
atheism is. Atheists do not "hate" theism and/or theists.
That's nothing more than a common misconception.
Many of my friends are Christian or Jewish, and we all
seem to get along just fine. Ultimately, we're all just
human beings living together on this little blue marble.

Also, have you considered the numbers of wars
started solely in the cause of, or the name of, religion?
Can you name any wars started in the name
of atheism? Ever? Anywhere?

BTW, I don't understand what your meaning is when
you say atheists "offer nothing for their existence".

Huh

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Jasin

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #42 - Sep 25^th, 2023 at 8:31am

No Geoff. You are missing the point of this Topic entirely.

Religions & Anti-Religion (Atheism).

Religion & Science (Science)

Can you see the failing of Atheism as an Anti-Religion.
Calling itself 'Atheism' for failing to 'jump the void' to reasons other than being Religious: like being an Artist, Scientist, Sportsperson, etc.

"Are you Religious?" the Mormon asked?
a) "No. I'm an Atheist!" Julia Gillard sqwarked back.
b) "No. I'm a Politician!" Jacinta Price would say.

This is why it can be said of black skivvy inner city, cafe-latte sipping, shaved head SNOB self proclaimed Atheists are nothing more than bitter 'Haters', no matter how 'lovey-dovey' Gay Rainbow and other pretty colours they could be too.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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Frank

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #43 - Sep 25^th, 2023 at 9:01am

Quote:

Atheistic non-belief doesn't
need the presumption that God or gods could exist in
order to exist in and of itself. And my atheism doesn't
need verbalising or any particular behaviour on my part
to prove it exists. It just is.

Well, as its very name indicates, a-theism is in a dialectical relationship with theism. It is a response to theism.

As to proofs, there are no natural, ie empirical, proofs for anything supernatural. There ar ee other proofs, conceptual, philosophical, psychological, theological which are not acceptable to people for whom, paradoxically, only natural proofs for supernatural or conceptual things are acceptable.

Quote:

And, of course, there is more than adequate empirical
evidence for other beliefs or concepts: magnetism,
gravity, electrical force, nuclear radiation, periodicity,
momentum and inertia etc.

Needless to say, none of these are 'beliefs or concepts". They are physical, natural phenomena, observable and measurable. You seem confused about what a concept or belief is.

Atheism is a concept or belief, like theism. As to wars in the name of atheism: Stalin persecuted and murdered thousands of religious leaders in order to eradicate religion or even the idea of God. Mao's cultural revolution, ditto. Pol Pot, ditto. Atheist, being believers, can be as fanatical as theists, as history shows.

Atheists tend to focus entirely on 'wars in the name of religions' and ignore religions as the motivators of great achievements in every field of human endeavor, or at best downplay them condescendingly, even smugly.

I think atheism is really on much stronger ground when it is anticlerical. Clericalism is in the sphere of observable, empirical world and arguments against it are on more solid ground, to coin a phrase, than empirical arguments against non-empirical gods, which fail even before they start.

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issuevoter

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #44 - Sep 25^th, 2023 at 9:45am

Jasin wrote on Sep 24^th, 2023 at 10:02pm:

issuevoter wrote on Sep 24^th, 2023 at 9:14pm:

Jasin wrote on Sep 24^th, 2023 at 5:11pm:

Because they're the cliche stereotype that was created by the most 'outspoken' of their types.

I don't know who you are listening to. They live in the cities, where certain clothes like a uniform, and drink coffee, which you can get in any country town. Why not stick to whatever you want to say about Atheists without all that stupid stuff?

Ok. Here's the thing. Atheists instead of calling themselves Atheists should just let Religion go and call themselves Scientific believers, Musicians and other Media caffe-latte 'SNOBS'.
How's that.

Atheism is has been held by some pretty intelligent, down to Earth people. However, I don't suscribe because its too absolute, though they may argue it is not. I still don't get this idea of yours that they are Snobs. Its sounding like an inferiority complex.

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Poll
Question: Atheism - how do YOU define it?
Not believing in GOD? 6 (50.0%) Believing in NO GOD? 6 (50.0%) Total votes: 12 « Created by: Lisa Jones on: Sep 28^th, 2023 at 11:29am »