Australian Politics Forum - Does Atheism really exist?

mothra

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #345 - Sep 30^th, 2023 at 11:58am

Frank wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 11:48am:

mothra wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 10:11am:

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:57pm:

There is a god even in an atheist universe.

The idea of God is impossible to exclude, even for atheists. Atheists engage with the idea of God even to define themselves.

Talk about omnipresent.

This is of course, ridiculous.

If a child is raised without belief in any kind of god, the idea of one when they confront it eventually would be novel. Their underlying nature long preceding the god Frank supposes they are reacting to.

This misunderstanding of Frank stems from two thing: one he thinks his preferred ideal is superior .. and two, that "a" as a prefix means against and not without.

He is quite wrong on both points.

See, Frank and Larry's idea of a god may be more palatable if it weren't so classist and superior. It absolutely defeats the purpose of what they profess to believe. As does all of their behaviour on this forum and, i've little doubt, in the outside world.

I don't like religion at all but i really like Jesus. Frank and Larry are nothing like Jesus.

Bringing up a child without teaching him religion is of course possible.
But the time will come when he realises that his parents deliberately shielded him from it and that the world beyond his childhood is steeped in religion, now and in the past. He will realise that he cannot understand history, art, literature, philosophy without understanding the role of religion in the history of his own culture.
He will then understand that his parents made a conscious atheist stance against religion, for whatever reason. He will understand that his parents acted by excluding something from his education, making it incomplete. He will then decide for himself to maintain an atheist stance or he will embrace religion to some degree. In any case, he, like his parents and everyone around him, will take a stance IN RELATION TO religion.

What the? God was made up. It's not a default position to believe in any kind of god whatsoever. That is all taught.

And whatever is taught remains utterly illogical. It is only through perception that any basis is any god holds merit. And perception cannot be taught.

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Frank

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #346 - Sep 30^th, 2023 at 12:12pm

mothra wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 11:58am:

Frank wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 11:48am:

mothra wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 10:11am:

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:57pm:

There is a god even in an atheist universe.

The idea of God is impossible to exclude, even for atheists. Atheists engage with the idea of God even to define themselves.

Talk about omnipresent.

This is of course, ridiculous.

If a child is raised without belief in any kind of god, the idea of one when they confront it eventually would be novel. Their underlying nature long preceding the god Frank supposes they are reacting to.

This misunderstanding of Frank stems from two thing: one he thinks his preferred ideal is superior .. and two, that "a" as a prefix means against and not without.

He is quite wrong on both points.

See, Frank and Larry's idea of a god may be more palatable if it weren't so classist and superior. It absolutely defeats the purpose of what they profess to believe. As does all of their behaviour on this forum and, i've little doubt, in the outside world.

I don't like religion at all but i really like Jesus. Frank and Larry are nothing like Jesus.

Bringing up a child without teaching him religion is of course possible.
But the time will come when he realises that his parents deliberately shielded him from it and that the world beyond his childhood is steeped in religion, now and in the past. He will realise that he cannot understand history, art, literature, philosophy without understanding the role of religion in the history of his own culture.
He will then understand that his parents made a conscious atheist stance against religion, for whatever reason. He will understand that his parents acted by excluding something from his education, making it incomplete. He will then decide for himself to maintain an atheist stance or he will embrace religion to some degree. In any case, he, like his parents and everyone around him, will take a stance IN RELATION TO religion.

What the? God was made up. It's not a default position to believe in any kind of god whatsoever. That is all taught.

And whatever is taught remains utterly illogical. It is only through perception that any basis is any god holds merit. And perception cannot be taught.

Language, history, culture are taught. Religion is in them all from the beginning.

Look at Aborigines. Their religious views define everything about them. They didn't come to Australia 60,000 years ago, by their own reckoning, but have been part of creation from the dot:

"This our ancestors did, according to the reckoning of our culture, from the Creation, according to the common law from 'time immemorial', and according to science more than 60,000 years ago."

You are not so casually dismissive about Aboriginal (or Islamic) beliefs as you are about Christianity. Why is that?

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mothra

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #347 - Sep 30^th, 2023 at 12:19pm

Frank wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 12:12pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 11:58am:

Frank wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 11:48am:

mothra wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 10:11am:

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:57pm:

There is a god even in an atheist universe.

The idea of God is impossible to exclude, even for atheists. Atheists engage with the idea of God even to define themselves.

Talk about omnipresent.

This is of course, ridiculous.

If a child is raised without belief in any kind of god, the idea of one when they confront it eventually would be novel. Their underlying nature long preceding the god Frank supposes they are reacting to.

This misunderstanding of Frank stems from two thing: one he thinks his preferred ideal is superior .. and two, that "a" as a prefix means against and not without.

He is quite wrong on both points.

See, Frank and Larry's idea of a god may be more palatable if it weren't so classist and superior. It absolutely defeats the purpose of what they profess to believe. As does all of their behaviour on this forum and, i've little doubt, in the outside world.

I don't like religion at all but i really like Jesus. Frank and Larry are nothing like Jesus.

Bringing up a child without teaching him religion is of course possible.
But the time will come when he realises that his parents deliberately shielded him from it and that the world beyond his childhood is steeped in religion, now and in the past. He will realise that he cannot understand history, art, literature, philosophy without understanding the role of religion in the history of his own culture.
He will then understand that his parents made a conscious atheist stance against religion, for whatever reason. He will understand that his parents acted by excluding something from his education, making it incomplete. He will then decide for himself to maintain an atheist stance or he will embrace religion to some degree. In any case, he, like his parents and everyone around him, will take a stance IN RELATION TO religion.

What the? God was made up. It's not a default position to believe in any kind of god whatsoever. That is all taught.

And whatever is taught remains utterly illogical. It is only through perception that any basis is any god holds merit. And perception cannot be taught.

Language, history, culture are taught. Religion is in them all from the beginning.

Look at Aborigines. Their religious views define everything about them. They didn't come to Australia 60,000 years ago, by their own reckoning, but have been part of creation from the dot:

"This our ancestors did, according to the reckoning of our culture, from the Creation, according to the common law from 'time immemorial', and according to science more than 60,000 years ago."

You are not so casually dismissive about Aboriginal (or Islamic) beliefs as you are about Christianity. Why is that?

What you are either going to accept or not is that religion is largely irrelevant these days. Have you not been paying attention?

All of society is managing to get by without religion being a factor.

Ironically, it's those not factoring religion in that are more accepting of the religions of others.

That's not you thoug, is it Frank.

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Frank

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #348 - Sep 30^th, 2023 at 12:27pm

mothra wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 12:19pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 12:12pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 11:58am:

Frank wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 11:48am:

mothra wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 10:11am:

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:57pm:

There is a god even in an atheist universe.

The idea of God is impossible to exclude, even for atheists. Atheists engage with the idea of God even to define themselves.

Talk about omnipresent.

This is of course, ridiculous.

If a child is raised without belief in any kind of god, the idea of one when they confront it eventually would be novel. Their underlying nature long preceding the god Frank supposes they are reacting to.

This misunderstanding of Frank stems from two thing: one he thinks his preferred ideal is superior .. and two, that "a" as a prefix means against and not without.

He is quite wrong on both points.

See, Frank and Larry's idea of a god may be more palatable if it weren't so classist and superior. It absolutely defeats the purpose of what they profess to believe. As does all of their behaviour on this forum and, i've little doubt, in the outside world.

I don't like religion at all but i really like Jesus. Frank and Larry are nothing like Jesus.

Bringing up a child without teaching him religion is of course possible.
But the time will come when he realises that his parents deliberately shielded him from it and that the world beyond his childhood is steeped in religion, now and in the past. He will realise that he cannot understand history, art, literature, philosophy without understanding the role of religion in the history of his own culture.
He will then understand that his parents made a conscious atheist stance against religion, for whatever reason. He will understand that his parents acted by excluding something from his education, making it incomplete. He will then decide for himself to maintain an atheist stance or he will embrace religion to some degree. In any case, he, like his parents and everyone around him, will take a stance IN RELATION TO religion.

What the? God was made up. It's not a default position to believe in any kind of god whatsoever. That is all taught.

And whatever is taught remains utterly illogical. It is only through perception that any basis is any god holds merit. And perception cannot be taught.

Language, history, culture are taught. Religion is in them all from the beginning.

Look at Aborigines. Their religious views define everything about them. They didn't come to Australia 60,000 years ago, by their own reckoning, but have been part of creation from the dot:

"This our ancestors did, according to the reckoning of our culture, from the Creation, according to the common law from 'time immemorial', and according to science more than 60,000 years ago."

You are not so casually dismissive about Aboriginal (or Islamic) beliefs as you are about Christianity. Why is that?

What you are either going to accept or not is that religion is largely irrelevant these days. Have you not been paying attention?

All of society is managing to get by without religion being a factor.

Well, not Aborigines. Not Muslims. Not Hindus.

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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mothra

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #349 - Sep 30^th, 2023 at 12:29pm

Frank wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 12:27pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 12:19pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 12:12pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 11:58am:

Frank wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 11:48am:

mothra wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 10:11am:

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:57pm:

There is a god even in an atheist universe.

The idea of God is impossible to exclude, even for atheists. Atheists engage with the idea of God even to define themselves.

Talk about omnipresent.

This is of course, ridiculous.

If a child is raised without belief in any kind of god, the idea of one when they confront it eventually would be novel. Their underlying nature long preceding the god Frank supposes they are reacting to.

This misunderstanding of Frank stems from two thing: one he thinks his preferred ideal is superior .. and two, that "a" as a prefix means against and not without.

He is quite wrong on both points.

See, Frank and Larry's idea of a god may be more palatable if it weren't so classist and superior. It absolutely defeats the purpose of what they profess to believe. As does all of their behaviour on this forum and, i've little doubt, in the outside world.

I don't like religion at all but i really like Jesus. Frank and Larry are nothing like Jesus.

Bringing up a child without teaching him religion is of course possible.
But the time will come when he realises that his parents deliberately shielded him from it and that the world beyond his childhood is steeped in religion, now and in the past. He will realise that he cannot understand history, art, literature, philosophy without understanding the role of religion in the history of his own culture.
He will then understand that his parents made a conscious atheist stance against religion, for whatever reason. He will understand that his parents acted by excluding something from his education, making it incomplete. He will then decide for himself to maintain an atheist stance or he will embrace religion to some degree. In any case, he, like his parents and everyone around him, will take a stance IN RELATION TO religion.

What the? God was made up. It's not a default position to believe in any kind of god whatsoever. That is all taught.

And whatever is taught remains utterly illogical. It is only through perception that any basis is any god holds merit. And perception cannot be taught.

Language, history, culture are taught. Religion is in them all from the beginning.

Look at Aborigines. Their religious views define everything about them. They didn't come to Australia 60,000 years ago, by their own reckoning, but have been part of creation from the dot:

"This our ancestors did, according to the reckoning of our culture, from the Creation, according to the common law from 'time immemorial', and according to science more than 60,000 years ago."

You are not so casually dismissive about Aboriginal (or Islamic) beliefs as you are about Christianity. Why is that?

What you are either going to accept or not is that religion is largely irrelevant these days. Have you not been paying attention?

All of society is managing to get by without religion being a factor.

Well, not Aborigines. Not Muslims. Not Hindus.

Are you speaking for them all of a sudden?

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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Frank

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #350 - Sep 30^th, 2023 at 12:32pm

mothra wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 12:29pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 12:27pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 12:19pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 12:12pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 11:58am:

Frank wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 11:48am:

mothra wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 10:11am:

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:57pm:

There is a god even in an atheist universe.

The idea of God is impossible to exclude, even for atheists. Atheists engage with the idea of God even to define themselves.

Talk about omnipresent.

This is of course, ridiculous.

If a child is raised without belief in any kind of god, the idea of one when they confront it eventually would be novel. Their underlying nature long preceding the god Frank supposes they are reacting to.

This misunderstanding of Frank stems from two thing: one he thinks his preferred ideal is superior .. and two, that "a" as a prefix means against and not without.

He is quite wrong on both points.

See, Frank and Larry's idea of a god may be more palatable if it weren't so classist and superior. It absolutely defeats the purpose of what they profess to believe. As does all of their behaviour on this forum and, i've little doubt, in the outside world.

I don't like religion at all but i really like Jesus. Frank and Larry are nothing like Jesus.

Bringing up a child without teaching him religion is of course possible.
But the time will come when he realises that his parents deliberately shielded him from it and that the world beyond his childhood is steeped in religion, now and in the past. He will realise that he cannot understand history, art, literature, philosophy without understanding the role of religion in the history of his own culture.
He will then understand that his parents made a conscious atheist stance against religion, for whatever reason. He will understand that his parents acted by excluding something from his education, making it incomplete. He will then decide for himself to maintain an atheist stance or he will embrace religion to some degree. In any case, he, like his parents and everyone around him, will take a stance IN RELATION TO religion.

What the? God was made up. It's not a default position to believe in any kind of god whatsoever. That is all taught.

And whatever is taught remains utterly illogical. It is only through perception that any basis is any god holds merit. And perception cannot be taught.

Language, history, culture are taught. Religion is in them all from the beginning.

Look at Aborigines. Their religious views define everything about them. They didn't come to Australia 60,000 years ago, by their own reckoning, but have been part of creation from the dot:

"This our ancestors did, according to the reckoning of our culture, from the Creation, according to the common law from 'time immemorial', and according to science more than 60,000 years ago."

You are not so casually dismissive about Aboriginal (or Islamic) beliefs as you are about Christianity. Why is that?

What you are either going to accept or not is that religion is largely irrelevant these days. Have you not been paying attention?

All of society is managing to get by without religion being a factor.

Well, not Aborigines. Not Muslims. Not Hindus.

Are you speaking for them all of a sudden?

Are you speaking for "all of society"?

I was quoting from the Ulury Statement:
"This our ancestors did, according to the reckoning of our culture, from the Creation, according to the common law from 'time immemorial', and according to science more than 60,000 years ago."

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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mothra

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #351 - Sep 30^th, 2023 at 12:36pm

Frank wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 12:32pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 12:29pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 12:27pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 12:19pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 12:12pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 11:58am:

Frank wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 11:48am:

mothra wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 10:11am:

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:57pm:

There is a god even in an atheist universe.

The idea of God is impossible to exclude, even for atheists. Atheists engage with the idea of God even to define themselves.

Talk about omnipresent.

This is of course, ridiculous.

If a child is raised without belief in any kind of god, the idea of one when they confront it eventually would be novel. Their underlying nature long preceding the god Frank supposes they are reacting to.

This misunderstanding of Frank stems from two thing: one he thinks his preferred ideal is superior .. and two, that "a" as a prefix means against and not without.

He is quite wrong on both points.

See, Frank and Larry's idea of a god may be more palatable if it weren't so classist and superior. It absolutely defeats the purpose of what they profess to believe. As does all of their behaviour on this forum and, i've little doubt, in the outside world.

I don't like religion at all but i really like Jesus. Frank and Larry are nothing like Jesus.

Bringing up a child without teaching him religion is of course possible.
But the time will come when he realises that his parents deliberately shielded him from it and that the world beyond his childhood is steeped in religion, now and in the past. He will realise that he cannot understand history, art, literature, philosophy without understanding the role of religion in the history of his own culture.
He will then understand that his parents made a conscious atheist stance against religion, for whatever reason. He will understand that his parents acted by excluding something from his education, making it incomplete. He will then decide for himself to maintain an atheist stance or he will embrace religion to some degree. In any case, he, like his parents and everyone around him, will take a stance IN RELATION TO religion.

What the? God was made up. It's not a default position to believe in any kind of god whatsoever. That is all taught.

And whatever is taught remains utterly illogical. It is only through perception that any basis is any god holds merit. And perception cannot be taught.

Language, history, culture are taught. Religion is in them all from the beginning.

Look at Aborigines. Their religious views define everything about them. They didn't come to Australia 60,000 years ago, by their own reckoning, but have been part of creation from the dot:

"This our ancestors did, according to the reckoning of our culture, from the Creation, according to the common law from 'time immemorial', and according to science more than 60,000 years ago."

You are not so casually dismissive about Aboriginal (or Islamic) beliefs as you are about Christianity. Why is that?

What you are either going to accept or not is that religion is largely irrelevant these days. Have you not been paying attention?

All of society is managing to get by without religion being a factor.

Well, not Aborigines. Not Muslims. Not Hindus.

Are you speaking for them all of a sudden?

Are you speaking for "all of society"?

I was quoting from the Ulury Statement:
"This our ancestors did, according to the reckoning of our culture, from the Creation, according to the common law from 'time immemorial', and according to science more than 60,000 years ago."

I'm sorry. What do you think that you are proving? That Aboriginal people deserve all the same respects you demand?

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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Frank

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Posts: 46819
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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #352 - Sep 30^th, 2023 at 12:42pm

mothra wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 12:36pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 12:32pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 12:29pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 12:27pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 12:19pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 12:12pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 11:58am:

Frank wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 11:48am:

mothra wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 10:11am:

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:57pm:

There is a god even in an atheist universe.

The idea of God is impossible to exclude, even for atheists. Atheists engage with the idea of God even to define themselves.

Talk about omnipresent.

This is of course, ridiculous.

If a child is raised without belief in any kind of god, the idea of one when they confront it eventually would be novel. Their underlying nature long preceding the god Frank supposes they are reacting to.

This misunderstanding of Frank stems from two thing: one he thinks his preferred ideal is superior .. and two, that "a" as a prefix means against and not without.

He is quite wrong on both points.

See, Frank and Larry's idea of a god may be more palatable if it weren't so classist and superior. It absolutely defeats the purpose of what they profess to believe. As does all of their behaviour on this forum and, i've little doubt, in the outside world.

I don't like religion at all but i really like Jesus. Frank and Larry are nothing like Jesus.

Bringing up a child without teaching him religion is of course possible.
But the time will come when he realises that his parents deliberately shielded him from it and that the world beyond his childhood is steeped in religion, now and in the past. He will realise that he cannot understand history, art, literature, philosophy without understanding the role of religion in the history of his own culture.
He will then understand that his parents made a conscious atheist stance against religion, for whatever reason. He will understand that his parents acted by excluding something from his education, making it incomplete. He will then decide for himself to maintain an atheist stance or he will embrace religion to some degree. In any case, he, like his parents and everyone around him, will take a stance IN RELATION TO religion.

What the? God was made up. It's not a default position to believe in any kind of god whatsoever. That is all taught.

And whatever is taught remains utterly illogical. It is only through perception that any basis is any god holds merit. And perception cannot be taught.

Language, history, culture are taught. Religion is in them all from the beginning.

Look at Aborigines. Their religious views define everything about them. They didn't come to Australia 60,000 years ago, by their own reckoning, but have been part of creation from the dot:

"This our ancestors did, according to the reckoning of our culture, from the Creation, according to the common law from 'time immemorial', and according to science more than 60,000 years ago."

You are not so casually dismissive about Aboriginal (or Islamic) beliefs as you are about Christianity. Why is that?

What you are either going to accept or not is that religion is largely irrelevant these days. Have you not been paying attention?

All of society is managing to get by without religion being a factor.

Well, not Aborigines. Not Muslims. Not Hindus.

Are you speaking for them all of a sudden?

Are you speaking for "all of society"?

I was quoting from the Ulury Statement:
"This our ancestors did, according to the reckoning of our culture, from the Creation, according to the common law from 'time immemorial', and according to science more than 60,000 years ago."

I'm sorry. What do you think that you are proving?

Your shifty, evasive hypocrisy.

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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mothra

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Posts: 35486
Gender: female

Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #353 - Sep 30^th, 2023 at 12:56pm

Frank wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 12:42pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 12:36pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 12:32pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 12:29pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 12:27pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 12:19pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 12:12pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 11:58am:

Frank wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 11:48am:

mothra wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 10:11am:

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:57pm:

There is a god even in an atheist universe.

The idea of God is impossible to exclude, even for atheists. Atheists engage with the idea of God even to define themselves.

Talk about omnipresent.

This is of course, ridiculous.

If a child is raised without belief in any kind of god, the idea of one when they confront it eventually would be novel. Their underlying nature long preceding the god Frank supposes they are reacting to.

This misunderstanding of Frank stems from two thing: one he thinks his preferred ideal is superior .. and two, that "a" as a prefix means against and not without.

He is quite wrong on both points.

See, Frank and Larry's idea of a god may be more palatable if it weren't so classist and superior. It absolutely defeats the purpose of what they profess to believe. As does all of their behaviour on this forum and, i've little doubt, in the outside world.

I don't like religion at all but i really like Jesus. Frank and Larry are nothing like Jesus.

Bringing up a child without teaching him religion is of course possible.
But the time will come when he realises that his parents deliberately shielded him from it and that the world beyond his childhood is steeped in religion, now and in the past. He will realise that he cannot understand history, art, literature, philosophy without understanding the role of religion in the history of his own culture.
He will then understand that his parents made a conscious atheist stance against religion, for whatever reason. He will understand that his parents acted by excluding something from his education, making it incomplete. He will then decide for himself to maintain an atheist stance or he will embrace religion to some degree. In any case, he, like his parents and everyone around him, will take a stance IN RELATION TO religion.

What the? God was made up. It's not a default position to believe in any kind of god whatsoever. That is all taught.

And whatever is taught remains utterly illogical. It is only through perception that any basis is any god holds merit. And perception cannot be taught.

Language, history, culture are taught. Religion is in them all from the beginning.

Look at Aborigines. Their religious views define everything about them. They didn't come to Australia 60,000 years ago, by their own reckoning, but have been part of creation from the dot:

"This our ancestors did, according to the reckoning of our culture, from the Creation, according to the common law from 'time immemorial', and according to science more than 60,000 years ago."

You are not so casually dismissive about Aboriginal (or Islamic) beliefs as you are about Christianity. Why is that?

What you are either going to accept or not is that religion is largely irrelevant these days. Have you not been paying attention?

All of society is managing to get by without religion being a factor.

Well, not Aborigines. Not Muslims. Not Hindus.

Are you speaking for them all of a sudden?

Are you speaking for "all of society"?

I was quoting from the Ulury Statement:
"This our ancestors did, according to the reckoning of our culture, from the Creation, according to the common law from 'time immemorial', and according to science more than 60,000 years ago."

I'm sorry. What do you think that you are proving?

Your shifty, evasive hypocrisy.

Well you failed.

What you did prove is your belie in your own cultural superiority.

As flawed as the foundations for that are.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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Frank

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #354 - Sep 30^th, 2023 at 4:07pm

Quote:

mothra wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 12:56pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 12:42pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 12:36pm:

Are you speaking for "all of society"?

I was quoting from the Ulury Statement:
"This our ancestors did, according to the reckoning of our culture, from the Creation, according to the common law from 'time immemorial', and according to science more than 60,000 years ago."

I'm sorry. What do you think that you are proving?

Your shifty, evasive hypocrisy.

Well you failed.

What you did prove is your belie in your own cultural superiority.

As flawed as the foundations for that are.

Well, you are not speaking for society and you are not even speaking about the foundations of my supposed "cultural superiority".

What ARE the foundations of my supposed "cultural superiority"?
What do you imagine as the foundations of your views on cultures and how are they superior to my flawed ones?

Do 'expand' , if are capable of explaining yourself.

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AusGeoff

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #355 - Sep 30^th, 2023 at 4:27pm

Frank wrote on Sep 29^th, 2023 at 11:19am:

...As I said, there is lots of evidence but atheists accept only a certain class of evidence - empirical - and not others.
But accepting only empirical evidence for something super-natural, ie 'super-empirical', is pathological from beginning to end.

Of course atheists only accept empirical evidence.
There's absolutely no point of accepting claims that
are made without any supporting empirical evidence at
all—such as the claims that God or gods exist.

I could claim that unicorns actually exist, and have an
expectation that you'd accept this at face value. Which
would obviously be an absurd expectation—unless I
provided you with empirical evidence in its support.

And unless I did that, you'd be quite within your rights
to call me an idiot. The first thing you'd (rightly) ask
of me would be for some sort of proof, such as photographs.

Can you tell me of one piece of evidence, of any degree,
that could prove the existence of God? Only one, single
piece of viable evidence that would stand up to scientific
scrutiny?

Nope: you can't. QED.

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« Last Edit: Sep 30^th, 2023 at 6:55pm by AusGeoff »

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Frank

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #356 - Sep 30^th, 2023 at 4:49pm

Leibnitz presented a number of logical proofs of the existence of God.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/leibniz/

Spinoza also has an excellent argument.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/spinoza/#GodNatu

In our time, the Professor of Mathematics at Oxford has made a few arguments in various forums, here's one:

https://www.cslewisinstitute.org/resources/what-is-the-strongest-argument-suppor...

Other very brainy people made some very good argument for the existence of god and honest testimonies about their own experiences of god. I am neither stupid or arrogant or adolescent enough to dismiss them all and claim to know better.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #357 - Sep 30^th, 2023 at 5:25pm

Frank wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 4:49pm:

Leibnitz presented a number of logical proofs of the existence of God.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/leibniz/

Spinoza also has an excellent argument.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/spinoza/#GodNatu

In our time, the Professor of Mathematics at Oxford has made a few arguments in various forums, here's one:

https://www.cslewisinstitute.org/resources/what-is-the-strongest-argument-suppor...

Other very brainy people made some very good argument for the existence of god and honest testimonies about their own experiences of god. I am neither stupid or arrogant or adolescent enough to dismiss them all and claim to know better.

Frank - you’re an amazing human being. Much respect.

Would you mind if I copied and shared your post elsewhere? My husband needs to see it. It will keep him busy (and off my back) for a few hours lol.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #358 - Sep 30^th, 2023 at 5:27pm

Ok this is where I was at 👇

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 7:59am:

Linus wrote on Sep 29^th, 2023 at 1:57pm:

I have no problem with you personally believing in a god. However, if you want to extend that belief to me or anyone else, then do tell us all about these scientific or other arguments that you give your husband for your god's existence.

Ok Rumpelstiltskin

(Apologies for the delay in responding - we’ve been quite busy here)

These “scientific or other” arguments involve detailed conversations about private and confidential aspects which pertain to both our lives.

And besides all that “the proof” one atheist (ie my husband) requires isn’t necessarily equal to “the proof” another atheist (ie you) requires. As I see it ... all Atheists were created unequal.

Not to worry. I have the perfect solution for such a dilemma.

Throughout our conversations YOU have repeatedly asked for the proof of the existence of God. In order for me to understand what YOUR idea of what that proof looks like ... I’ll require an EXEMPLAR (note : you used that word not me).

Now let’s keep this simple:

The EXEMPLAR 👇

Prove to me that you exist.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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Linus

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #359 - Sep 30^th, 2023 at 6:27pm

Frank wrote on Sep 30^th, 2023 at 4:49pm:

Leibnitz presented a number of logical proofs of the existence of God.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/leibniz/

Spinoza also has an excellent argument.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/spinoza/#GodNatu

In our time, the Professor of Mathematics at Oxford has made a few arguments in various forums, here's one:

https://www.cslewisinstitute.org/resources/what-is-the-strongest-argument-suppor...

Other very brainy people made some very good argument for the existence of god and honest testimonies about their own experiences of god. I am neither stupid or arrogant or adolescent enough to dismiss them all and claim to know better.

And this is no argument for the existence of god(s), rather it's an appeal to authority. One could easily write that there are some "very brainy people" who have made some "very good argument(s)" for the rejection of god(s). Just look here at websites x, y, z.

Also, Leibniz and Lennox believe in the classical Christian god , Spinoza was more a pantheist ( "God is everything and everything is God")

Put up the arguments for God's existence one by one, Frank, and let us all have a go at determining whether any one of the arguments are sufficient for accepting a specific god or other gods.

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Poll
Question: Atheism - how do YOU define it?
Not believing in GOD? 6 (50.0%) Believing in NO GOD? 6 (50.0%) Total votes: 12 « Created by: Lisa Jones on: Sep 28^th, 2023 at 11:29am »