Australian Politics Forum - Does Atheism really exist?

Frank

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #540 - Oct 6^th, 2023 at 4:51pm

mothra wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 4:20pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 4:15pm:

mothra wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 3:54pm:

Yes and as i keep telling you but you seem resistant to get is that the prefix 'a' in all of those examples represents without, not against.

One is not required to opposes theism to be an atheist. Atheism is the default position. Theism is taught.

You are the only one who invented the idea that I think atheism is against theism. As I keep illustrating, the a- means without the thing that comes after it. Apolitical is not against politics, atheism is not against theism. But you cannot conceptualise atheism, apolitical, apathetic, assymetric, amoral WITHOUT conceptualising what comes after the a-.

As for 'default' position, list of cultures and societies in history that started out with the default atheist cutural foundation and discovered/invented theism only later:

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10

What a laugh. You said repeatedly that atheism cannot exist without god. You even claimed that that was because god was just so, you know, omnipotent?

Would you like me to go back and find it?

Backpedalling now?

Give us the list of originally atheist cultures and societies. (Default)

Talk about the concept of atheism without using the concept of god/s.

Go on.

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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Does Atheism really exist? Reply #541 - Oct 6^th, 2023 at 4:52pm Oh have I got an interesting topic for you Frank...😩😔😳
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mothra

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #542 - Oct 6^th, 2023 at 4:54pm

Frank wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 4:51pm:

mothra wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 4:20pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 4:15pm:

mothra wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 3:54pm:

Yes and as i keep telling you but you seem resistant to get is that the prefix 'a' in all of those examples represents without, not against.

One is not required to opposes theism to be an atheist. Atheism is the default position. Theism is taught.

You are the only one who invented the idea that I think atheism is against theism. As I keep illustrating, the a- means without the thing that comes after it. Apolitical is not against politics, atheism is not against theism. But you cannot conceptualise atheism, apolitical, apathetic, assymetric, amoral WITHOUT conceptualising what comes after the a-.

As for 'default' position, list of cultures and societies in history that started out with the default atheist cutural foundation and discovered/invented theism only later:

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10

What a laugh. You said repeatedly that atheism cannot exist without god. You even claimed that that was because god was just so, you know, omnipotent?

Would you like me to go back and find it?

Backpedalling now?

Give us the list of originally atheist cultures and societies. (Default)

Talk about the concept of atheism without using the concept of god/s.

Go on.

You don't get it do you? Atheists don't need to define themselves for they are the default position.

It's you god botherers that are desperate to give them a title. You know, the other?

I'm afraid your egg came long before our chicken.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 12650 Gender:	Re: Does Atheism really exist? Reply #543 - Oct 6^th, 2023 at 4:57pm mothra wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 4:51pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 11:58am: Autistics, for example, are usually trapped at the emotional age of about 15. Wow, that's dangerously ignorant. And for the most part, utterly untrue. No, it's true.
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Frank

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #544 - Oct 6^th, 2023 at 4:58pm

mothra wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 4:36pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 4:15pm:

mothra wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 3:54pm:

Yes and as i keep telling you but you seem resistant to get is that the prefix 'a' in all of those examples represents without, not against.

One is not required to opposes theism to be an atheist. Atheism is the default position. Theism is taught.

You are the only one who invented the idea that I think atheism is against theism. As I keep illustrating, the a- means without the thing that comes after it. Apolitical is not against politics, atheism is not against theism. But you cannot conceptualise atheism, apolitical, apathetic, assymetric, amoral WITHOUT conceptualising what comes after the a-.

Let's see now:

Frank wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2023 at 8:41pm:

Of course it does. Its a revolt agaist theism.

Yes, it's reactionary. There are lots of things that are AGAINST something.

Frank wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2023 at 9:39pm:

Atheism is a belief, of course, because what it responds to is also a belief.

Frank wrote on Sep 25^th, 2023 at 9:01am:

Well, as its very name indicates, a-theism is in a dialectical relationship with theism. It is a response to theism.

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:09am:

I said atheism is a belief in response to another belief, the one that does believe in a god in some way.
It is a belief itself about another belief. Both are beliefs about the fundamental nature of the world. One - the older belief - posits a god of its own imagining. Atheism - no-godism - in response posits that there is no God of any kind in its imagining.

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 11:51am:

See? You need the concept of God to define atheism. It is inevitable since God is in the very word, atheism. You have to conceptualise what you are not believing in.

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 5:48pm:

Atheism overthrow God and puts Man in his place.

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:57pm:

There is a god even in an atheist universe.

The idea of God is impossible to exclude, even for atheists. Atheists engage with the idea of God even to define themselves.

Talk about omnipresent.

Atheism, as the etymology of the word shows, is about beliefs without gods.

That atheists are very often vocally and vociferously AGAINST any and all religions and especially Christianity and clericalism (but not, of course, Aboriginal religions) is another, sociological or political matter, not linguistic or philosophical.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #545 - Oct 6^th, 2023 at 4:59pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 4:39pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 4:31pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 4:21pm:

1. THEISM - In Greek means THE BELIEF IN GOD

2. ATHEISM- In Greek means THE BELIEF IN NO GOD

Atheism is not a 'believing in' - it is a disbelief.

Atheists do not 'believe in no god', they disbelieve in the existence of god - in the same way that most adults disbelieve in the existence of Santa Claus - no one 'believes in' the nonexistence of Santa Claus.

Are you suddenly Greek? Of course not!

Not only is Modern Greek my 1st language - I also have an Arts degree with a High Distinction in Modern Greek.

Bottom line? Zip it.

Atheists do not 'believe in' the non-existence of god - they disbelieve in the existence of god.

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MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 12650 Gender:	Re: Does Atheism really exist? Reply #546 - Oct 6^th, 2023 at 5:01pm Frank wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 4:58pm: That atheists are very often vocally and vociferously AGAINST any and all religions and especially Christianity and clericalism You're describing antitheism.
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mothra

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #547 - Oct 6^th, 2023 at 5:05pm

Frank wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 4:58pm:

mothra wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 4:36pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 4:15pm:

mothra wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 3:54pm:

Yes and as i keep telling you but you seem resistant to get is that the prefix 'a' in all of those examples represents without, not against.

One is not required to opposes theism to be an atheist. Atheism is the default position. Theism is taught.

You are the only one who invented the idea that I think atheism is against theism. As I keep illustrating, the a- means without the thing that comes after it. Apolitical is not against politics, atheism is not against theism. But you cannot conceptualise atheism, apolitical, apathetic, assymetric, amoral WITHOUT conceptualising what comes after the a-.

Let's see now:

Frank wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2023 at 8:41pm:

Of course it does. Its a revolt agaist theism.

Yes, it's reactionary. There are lots of things that are AGAINST something.

Frank wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2023 at 9:39pm:

Atheism is a belief, of course, because what it responds to is also a belief.

Frank wrote on Sep 25^th, 2023 at 9:01am:

Well, as its very name indicates, a-theism is in a dialectical relationship with theism. It is a response to theism.

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:09am:

I said atheism is a belief in response to another belief, the one that does believe in a god in some way.
It is a belief itself about another belief. Both are beliefs about the fundamental nature of the world. One - the older belief - posits a god of its own imagining. Atheism - no-godism - in response posits that there is no God of any kind in its imagining.

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 11:51am:

See? You need the concept of God to define atheism. It is inevitable since God is in the very word, atheism. You have to conceptualise what you are not believing in.

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 5:48pm:

Atheism overthrow God and puts Man in his place.

Frank wrote on Sep 28^th, 2023 at 9:57pm:

There is a god even in an atheist universe.

The idea of God is impossible to exclude, even for atheists. Atheists engage with the idea of God even to define themselves.

Talk about omnipresent.

Atheism, as the etymology of the word shows, is about beliefs without gods.

That atheists are very often vocally and vociferously AGAINST any and all religions and especially Christianity and clericalism (but not, of course, Aboriginal religions) is another, sociological or political matter, not linguistic or philosophical.

Having a bit of a squirm, fruitbat?

Atheist require no label. To not believe in a god is the default position.

How can you not understand this? I've only been saying it all damn thread long.

It's you god botherers intent on labels; heathens, pagans, heretics etc.

These days most of you just say athiest.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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mothra

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #548 - Oct 6^th, 2023 at 5:06pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 4:57pm:

mothra wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 4:51pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 11:58am:

Autistics, for example, are usually trapped at the emotional age of about 15.

Wow, that's dangerously ignorant.

And for the most part, utterly untrue.

No, it's true.

LOL! Its very far from being true.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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Frank

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #549 - Oct 6^th, 2023 at 5:09pm

mothra wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 4:54pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 4:51pm:

mothra wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 4:20pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 4:15pm:

mothra wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 3:54pm:

Yes and as i keep telling you but you seem resistant to get is that the prefix 'a' in all of those examples represents without, not against.

One is not required to opposes theism to be an atheist. Atheism is the default position. Theism is taught.

You are the only one who invented the idea that I think atheism is against theism. As I keep illustrating, the a- means without the thing that comes after it. Apolitical is not against politics, atheism is not against theism. But you cannot conceptualise atheism, apolitical, apathetic, assymetric, amoral WITHOUT conceptualising what comes after the a-.

As for 'default' position, list of cultures and societies in history that started out with the default atheist cutural foundation and discovered/invented theism only later:

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10

What a laugh. You said repeatedly that atheism cannot exist without god. You even claimed that that was because god was just so, you know, omnipotent?

Would you like me to go back and find it?

Backpedalling now?

Give us the list of originally atheist cultures and societies. (Default)

Talk about the concept of atheism without using the concept of god/s.

Go on.

You don't get it do you? Atheists don't need to define themselves for they are the default position.

It's you god botherers that are desperate to give them a title. You know, the other?

I'm afraid your egg came long before our chicken.

Dont waffle like your are caught out. Just show evidence in history that atheism was the default and theism came after it. Go on, it's your idea, you should be able back it up.

Aborigines, the continuous culture from 60,000 years ago, are not atheist and have never been until they heard/learnt about it from Europeans. For Aborigines, atheism is taught, spirit belief the unchanging default.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #550 - Oct 6^th, 2023 at 5:13pm

Frank wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 5:09pm:

Aborigines, the continuous culture from 60,000 years ago, are not atheist and have never been until they heard/learnt about it from Europeans. For Aborigines, atheism is taught, spirit belief the unchanging default.

Aboriginal 'religions' are animist and manist - ancestor worship.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #551 - Oct 6^th, 2023 at 5:16pm

mothra wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 5:06pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 4:57pm:

mothra wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 4:51pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 11:58am:

Autistics, for example, are usually trapped at the emotional age of about 15.

Wow, that's dangerously ignorant.

And for the most part, utterly untrue.

No, it's true.

LOL! Its very far from being true.

It's true - have a read of the ones we likely have on this forum!

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Frank

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #552 - Oct 6^th, 2023 at 5:16pm

mothra wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 5:05pm:

Having a bit of a squirm, fruitbat?

Atheist require no label. To not believe in a god is the default position.

How can you not understand this? I've only been saying it all damn thread long.

It's you god botherers intent on labels; heathens, pagans, heretics etc.

These days most of you just say athiest.

So what IS the word for that default position? Why is it defined with reference to theism?

I asked you repeatedly - define it without reference to god/s. If it was really the default position, you could say what it is without ever needing the word or concept of god/s.

Go ahead, demonstrate.

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mothra

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #553 - Oct 6^th, 2023 at 5:21pm

Frank wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 5:16pm:

mothra wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 5:05pm:

Having a bit of a squirm, fruitbat?

Atheist require no label. To not believe in a god is the default position.

How can you not understand this? I've only been saying it all damn thread long.

It's you god botherers intent on labels; heathens, pagans, heretics etc.

These days most of you just say athiest.

So what IS the word for that default position? Why is it defined with reference to theism?

I asked you repeatedly - define it without reference to god/s. If it was really the default position, you could say what it is without ever needing the word or concept of god/s.

Go ahead, demonstrate.

Oh my god.

There would be no requirement to define atheism if it weren't for the fact that god was invented by humans and the people that buy into it need to label people who don't.

Atheism. Is. The. Default. Position.

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Frank

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #554 - Oct 6^th, 2023 at 5:32pm

mothra wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 5:21pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 5:16pm:

mothra wrote on Oct 6^th, 2023 at 5:05pm:

Having a bit of a squirm, fruitbat?

Atheist require no label. To not believe in a god is the default position.

How can you not understand this? I've only been saying it all damn thread long.

It's you god botherers intent on labels; heathens, pagans, heretics etc.

These days most of you just say athiest.

So what IS the word for that default position? Why is it defined with reference to theism?

I asked you repeatedly - define it without reference to god/s. If it was really the default position, you could say what it is without ever needing the word or concept of god/s.

Go ahead, demonstrate.

Oh my god.

There would be no requirement to define atheism if it weren't for the fact that god was invented by humans and the people that buy into it need to label people who don't.

Atheism. Is. The. Default. Position.

I am asking you to list the cultures that were default atheist BEFORE they invented god/s.

It's your idea, you should be able to back it up with EMPIRICAL evidence, something atheists are keen on.

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Poll
Question: Atheism - how do YOU define it?
Not believing in GOD? 6 (50.0%) Believing in NO GOD? 6 (50.0%) Total votes: 12 « Created by: Lisa Jones on: Sep 28^th, 2023 at 11:29am »