Australian Politics Forum - Does Atheism really exist?

SadKangaroo

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #675 - Oct 24^th, 2023 at 10:11am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 24^th, 2023 at 9:13am:

The dopaminergic response is about anticipating positive outcomes to be realised in the future, and religious practice can augment the likelihood of that response, as can other repetitive or ritualistic practises.

Atheists are not necessarily immune to magical thinking evoked by dopamine, such that when a good thing happens to us, we're hard-wired to take into account a myriad of things that happened, or what we were doing at the time, or what physiological/psychological state we were in immediately prior to the good thing happening.

Oh no, there is no difference, we're all human. We have the same responses to dopamine, some more than others, but faith or lack there of doesn't really play a part.

Quote:

Similarly, atheists are not necessarily immune from 'touching wood' or wearing a lucky charm to avoid or avert bad future outcomes - again, we're hard-wired to intuit our agency against plain, random bad luck.

It's not for no reason that, as traditional religions decline in influence, quasi-, pseudo-, or new religions have grown in influence - e.g. New Age, spiritualism, crystallogy, 'the universe providing', 'Western Buddhism' &etc.

The point was more that we all are on the path of being controlled by our biological urges. Until the idea of a god is indoctrinated in someone, be they young or old, the path they walk before that is very similar to atheism.

It's not like they only start wanting answers once a holy text can provide them.

The difference is the choice to accept those answers using faith as evidence and straying from the default path, or not.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #676 - Oct 24^th, 2023 at 11:07am

SadKangaroo wrote on Oct 24^th, 2023 at 10:11am:

The point was more that we all are on the path of being controlled by our biological urges. Until the idea of a god is indoctrinated in someone, be they young or old, the path they walk before that is very similar to atheism.

It's not like they only start wanting answers once a holy text can provide them.

The difference is the choice to accept those answers using faith as evidence and straying from the default path, or not.

The notion that infants and young children are atheists by default assumes that they have an a priori sense of godlessness.

Atheism requires a consciousness and awareness sufficiently developed to make an informed choice about whether or not there is a god.

Children who have not been indoctrinated about the existence of a god does not mean children must have made a conscious choice to disbelieve in the existence of god(s) or that they are by default atheists.

All children are susceptible to the existence and truth of magic - i.e. the metaphysical. That would imply that, if anything, children are hard-wired to be susceptible to theism, not atheism.

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 47498 Gender:	Re: Does Atheism really exist? Reply #677 - Oct 24^th, 2023 at 2:56pm Atheism just requires an absence of religious garbage.
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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 48853 Gender:	Re: Does Atheism really exist? Reply #678 - Oct 24^th, 2023 at 3:37pm Monk tries to intellectually relate to MeisterEccy and Sad Roo.
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MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 12637 Gender:	Re: Does Atheism really exist? Reply #679 - Oct 24^th, 2023 at 3:51pm Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 24^th, 2023 at 2:56pm: Atheism just requires an absence of religious garbage. Are animals atheists?
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SadKangaroo

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #680 - Oct 24^th, 2023 at 4:46pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 24^th, 2023 at 3:51pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 24^th, 2023 at 2:56pm:

Atheism just requires an absence of religious garbage.

Are animals atheists?

Do you need to be capable on an intellectual level to know of and accept a god, but choose not to, in order to be an atheist, or do we take it as its literal meaning, one that lacks belief in the existence of God or gods?

Because in that case, all babies are atheists and yes, all animals would be too.

This is one of the reasons why in most religious texts animals are not capable of entering the afterlife, but at the same time babies get a free pass so long as you as the parent have baptized/christened the child of they've gone through the Tvilah/Mikveh/<insert ritual here> etc.

It's not something I'm directing directly to you Meister, just sorta thinking out loud. It's rare that there is any one answer given that no matter what you believe, you are an unbeliever to someone's point of view so it's hard to have a single "right" answer.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #681 - Oct 24^th, 2023 at 5:23pm

SadKangaroo wrote on Oct 24^th, 2023 at 4:46pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 24^th, 2023 at 3:51pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 24^th, 2023 at 2:56pm:

Atheism just requires an absence of religious garbage.

Are animals atheists?

Do you need to be capable on an intellectual level to know of and accept a god, but choose not to, in order to be an atheist, or do we take it as its literal meaning, one that lacks belief in the existence of God or gods?

Because in that case, all babies are atheists and yes, all animals would be too.

This is one of the reasons why in most religious texts animals are not capable of entering the afterlife, but at the same time babies get a free pass so long as you as the parent have baptized/christened the child of they've gone through the Tvilah/Mikveh/<insert ritual here> etc.

It's not something I'm directing directly to you Meister, just sorta thinking out loud. It's rare that there is any one answer given that no matter what you believe, you are an unbeliever to someone's point of view so it's hard to have a single "right" answer.

For the word to define a disposition, it requires cognisant human agency; otherwise, it has no more value than defining a physical feature like, say, blue-eyed (or non-brown-eyed).

Children are not defined as apolitical because they don't know what a Prime Minister is - they simply don't know that they don't know about political premiership.

In any case, children generally do believe in 'gods' as in omnipotent beings - their parents.

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« Last Edit: Oct 24^th, 2023 at 5:29pm by MeisterEckhart »

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Jasin

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #682 - Oct 24^th, 2023 at 5:50pm

SadKangaroo wrote on Oct 24^th, 2023 at 4:46pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 24^th, 2023 at 3:51pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 24^th, 2023 at 2:56pm:

Atheism just requires an absence of religious garbage.

Are animals atheists?

Do you need to be capable on an intellectual level to know of and accept a god, but choose not to, in order to be an atheist, or do we take it as its literal meaning, one that lacks belief in the existence of God or gods?

Because in that case, all babies are atheists and yes, all animals would be too.

This is one of the reasons why in most religious texts animals are not capable of entering the afterlife, but at the same time babies get a free pass so long as you as the parent have baptized/christened the child of they've gone through the Tvilah/Mikveh/<insert ritual here> etc.

It's not something I'm directing directly to you Meister, just sorta thinking out loud. It's rare that there is any one answer given that no matter what you believe, you are an unbeliever to someone's point of view so it's hard to have a single "right" answer.

You might be late to this Party Sad Kangaroo.
But Atheists are nothing more than 'anti' Religious people, who haven't a clue beyond that, to know what they're actually 'Pro' about?
In other words, without Religion. Atheism would cease to exist.
Atheism is just a blood-sucker on Religion.

Atheism = Anti Religious and nothing more.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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Jasin

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #683 - Oct 24^th, 2023 at 5:52pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 24^th, 2023 at 5:23pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Oct 24^th, 2023 at 4:46pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 24^th, 2023 at 3:51pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 24^th, 2023 at 2:56pm:

Atheism just requires an absence of religious garbage.

Are animals atheists?

Do you need to be capable on an intellectual level to know of and accept a god, but choose not to, in order to be an atheist, or do we take it as its literal meaning, one that lacks belief in the existence of God or gods?

Because in that case, all babies are atheists and yes, all animals would be too.

This is one of the reasons why in most religious texts animals are not capable of entering the afterlife, but at the same time babies get a free pass so long as you as the parent have baptized/christened the child of they've gone through the Tvilah/Mikveh/<insert ritual here> etc.

It's not something I'm directing directly to you Meister, just sorta thinking out loud. It's rare that there is any one answer given that no matter what you believe, you are an unbeliever to someone's point of view so it's hard to have a single "right" answer.

For the word to define a disposition, it requires cognisant human agency; otherwise, it has no more value than defining a physical feature like, say, blue-eyed (or non-brown-eyed).

Children are not defined as apolitical because they don't know what a Prime Minister is - they simply don't know that they don't know about political premiership.

In any case, children generally do believe in 'gods' as in omnipotent beings - their parents.

Well considering Politics will cease to exist here as a culture - which it does via 'other nations' from overseas.
But its future will be in that it will produce a Political 'Race'.

Politics: is an Eloi in America and a race of Morlocks in Australia. Wink

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 12637 Gender:	Re: Does Atheism really exist? Reply #684 - Oct 24^th, 2023 at 5:58pm Jasin wrote on Oct 24^th, 2023 at 5:50pm: Atheism = Anti Religious and nothing more. A better word for that is antitheist.
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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 48853 Gender:	Re: Does Atheism really exist? Reply #685 - Oct 24^th, 2023 at 6:03pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 24^th, 2023 at 5:58pm: Jasin wrote on Oct 24^th, 2023 at 5:50pm: Atheism = Anti Religious and nothing more. A better word for that is antitheist. I agree with your point there.
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AusGeoff

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #686 - Oct 24^th, 2023 at 7:20pm

Jasin wrote on Oct 24^th, 2023 at 5:50pm:

...Atheism = Anti Religious and nothing more.

Nope. Totally wrong. Atheists aren't specifically
anti-religion, and are just as likely to be anti about
other random stuff, just like everybody else.

This shows—again—that you don't understand what
it means to describe oneself as an atheist.

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AusGeoff Gold Member Offline Sage of Gippsland Posts: 5999 Victoria Gender:	Re: Does Atheism really exist? Reply #687 - Oct 24^th, 2023 at 7:23pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 24^th, 2023 at 5:58pm: Jasin wrote on Oct 24^th, 2023 at 5:50pm: Atheism = Anti Religious and nothing more. A better word for that is antitheist. Also incorrect.
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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Does Atheism really exist?
Reply #688 - Oct 24^th, 2023 at 7:33pm

AusGeoff wrote on Oct 24^th, 2023 at 7:23pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 24^th, 2023 at 5:58pm:

Jasin wrote on Oct 24^th, 2023 at 5:50pm:

Atheism = Anti Religious and nothing more.

A better word for that is antitheist.

Also incorrect.

It's more accurate.

A vehement dislike of religion is better defined as antitheism.

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Postmodern Trendoid III Gold Member Offline Posts: 10266 Gender:	Re: Does Atheism really exist? Reply #689 - Oct 24^th, 2023 at 9:16pm Atheism is just the absence of belief in god. Atheists will fill this absence with other beliefs: nationalism, wokism, traditions, 'progressive' bleatings about some future utopia etc.
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Poll
Question: Atheism - how do YOU define it?
Not believing in GOD? 6 (50.0%) Believing in NO GOD? 6 (50.0%) Total votes: 12 « Created by: Lisa Jones on: Sep 28^th, 2023 at 11:29am »