Australian Politics Forum - Hamas attacks Israel again

Frank

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel again
Reply #30 - Oct 8^th, 2023 at 11:01am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 10:51am:

freediver wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 10:29am:

Palestine did not exist as a country until Israel did. It is 100% about religion. The middle east was carved up however western countries wanted it. Most of the countries are very recent inventions. The locals got over it and moved on, until the Jews stepped out of line.

Religion is the marker by which most on each side identify themselves, not the reason for war.

I'd bet there are Palestinian Christians who stand with their Palestinian compatriots against Israel, as there may be Arab-Israelis who stand with Israel.

Had another Semitic people or other foreign entity claimed Palestine as Jews did, the local Palestinians would have risen up against them also.

This is about cultural identity and nationhood, not religious affiliation.

The Pallos didn't rise up against the Ottomans.
Mainly because they didn't think of themselves as Pallos ( a recently invented nationality) and because the Ottomans were Musulmans.

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freediver

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel again
Reply #31 - Oct 8^th, 2023 at 11:02am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 10:51am:

freediver wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 10:29am:

Palestine did not exist as a country until Israel did. It is 100% about religion. The middle east was carved up however western countries wanted it. Most of the countries are very recent inventions. The locals got over it and moved on, until the Jews stepped out of line.

Religion is the marker by which most on each side identify themselves, not the reason for war.

I'd bet there are Palestinian Christians who stand with their Palestinian compatriots against Israel, as there may be Arab-Israelis who stand with Israel.

Had another Semitic people or other foreign entity claimed Palestine as Jews did, the local Palestinians would have risen up against them also.

This is about cultural identity and nationhood, not religious affiliation.

You are projecting. In this case, it is entirely about religion. The Palestinians would not have risen up against other Muslims. Israel is the only middle eastern country whose existence the Muslims generally object to, because of the Jews rising above their natural place.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel again
Reply #32 - Oct 8^th, 2023 at 11:11am

freediver wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 11:02am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 10:51am:

freediver wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 10:29am:

Palestine did not exist as a country until Israel did. It is 100% about religion. The middle east was carved up however western countries wanted it. Most of the countries are very recent inventions. The locals got over it and moved on, until the Jews stepped out of line.

Religion is the marker by which most on each side identify themselves, not the reason for war.

I'd bet there are Palestinian Christians who stand with their Palestinian compatriots against Israel, as there may be Arab-Israelis who stand with Israel.

Had another Semitic people or other foreign entity claimed Palestine as Jews did, the local Palestinians would have risen up against them also.

This is about cultural identity and nationhood, not religious affiliation.

You are projecting. In this case, it is entirely about religion. The Palestinians would not have risen up against other Muslims. Israel is the only middle eastern country whose existence the Muslims generally object to, because of the Jews rising above their natural place.

You mean like Iran and Iraq, Iran and Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Saudi Arabia, Kurds against Iraq, Iran, Syria and Turkey?

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issuevoter

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel again
Reply #33 - Oct 8^th, 2023 at 11:11am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 10:26am:

issuevoter wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 9:21am:

If this was about land, it would have been settled yonks ago. The Palestians would be thriving, not in spite of the Jews, but because of them. Its all about the Abrahamic religions.

This has about as much to do with religion as the Northern Ireland conflict or the Ukraine-Russia conflict.

The Palestinians and Israelis are fighting for existential reasons.

When the architect of Egypt's 1973 war was asked to respond to his critcs, he said in English, "It was not about me. I did it for Allah."

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel again
Reply #34 - Oct 8^th, 2023 at 11:13am

issuevoter wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 11:11am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 10:26am:

issuevoter wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 9:21am:

If this was about land, it would have been settled yonks ago. The Palestians would be thriving, not in spite of the Jews, but because of them. Its all about the Abrahamic religions.

This has about as much to do with religion as the Northern Ireland conflict or the Ukraine-Russia conflict.

The Palestinians and Israelis are fighting for existential reasons.

When the architect of Egypt's 1973 war was asked to respond to his critcs, he said in English, "It was not about me. I did it for Allah."

Well, that's one.

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Frank

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel again
Reply #35 - Oct 8^th, 2023 at 11:14am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 11:11am:

freediver wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 11:02am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 10:51am:

freediver wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 10:29am:

Palestine did not exist as a country until Israel did. It is 100% about religion. The middle east was carved up however western countries wanted it. Most of the countries are very recent inventions. The locals got over it and moved on, until the Jews stepped out of line.

Religion is the marker by which most on each side identify themselves, not the reason for war.

I'd bet there are Palestinian Christians who stand with their Palestinian compatriots against Israel, as there may be Arab-Israelis who stand with Israel.

Had another Semitic people or other foreign entity claimed Palestine as Jews did, the local Palestinians would have risen up against them also.

This is about cultural identity and nationhood, not religious affiliation.

You are projecting. In this case, it is entirely about religion. The Palestinians would not have risen up against other Muslims. Israel is the only middle eastern country whose existence the Muslims generally object to, because of the Jews rising above their natural place.

You mean like Iran and Iraq, Iran and Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Saudi Arabia, Kurds against Iraq, Iran, Syria and Turkey?

Muslim sectarianism. The only people the Muslims hate more than the Jews is apostate Muslims (Shia, Sunni, etc)

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freediver

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel again
Reply #36 - Oct 8^th, 2023 at 11:49am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 11:11am:

freediver wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 11:02am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 10:51am:

freediver wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 10:29am:

Palestine did not exist as a country until Israel did. It is 100% about religion. The middle east was carved up however western countries wanted it. Most of the countries are very recent inventions. The locals got over it and moved on, until the Jews stepped out of line.

Religion is the marker by which most on each side identify themselves, not the reason for war.

I'd bet there are Palestinian Christians who stand with their Palestinian compatriots against Israel, as there may be Arab-Israelis who stand with Israel.

Had another Semitic people or other foreign entity claimed Palestine as Jews did, the local Palestinians would have risen up against them also.

This is about cultural identity and nationhood, not religious affiliation.

You are projecting. In this case, it is entirely about religion. The Palestinians would not have risen up against other Muslims. Israel is the only middle eastern country whose existence the Muslims generally object to, because of the Jews rising above their natural place.

You mean like Iran and Iraq, Iran and Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Saudi Arabia, Kurds against Iraq, Iran, Syria and Turkey?

Yes. We have Australian Muslims on this website preaching that Islam will inevitably reconquer Israel. They actually say the same thing about Spain. They consider the land to be owned by the religion. Not by a country or an ethnicity or some other ideology. By religion.

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issuevoter Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9200 The Great State of Mind Gender:	Re: Hamas attacks Israel again Reply #37 - Oct 8^th, 2023 at 11:54am I reiterate. The reason the Labor Government sides with the "Palestians" is because the USA and Britain support Israel and this is why the Laborites can never admit its about religion, when they are generally antagonistic toward religion. So am I, but that's another subject.
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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel again
Reply #38 - Oct 8^th, 2023 at 11:59am

freediver wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 11:49am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 11:11am:

freediver wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 11:02am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 10:51am:

freediver wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 10:29am:

Palestine did not exist as a country until Israel did. It is 100% about religion. The middle east was carved up however western countries wanted it. Most of the countries are very recent inventions. The locals got over it and moved on, until the Jews stepped out of line.

Religion is the marker by which most on each side identify themselves, not the reason for war.

I'd bet there are Palestinian Christians who stand with their Palestinian compatriots against Israel, as there may be Arab-Israelis who stand with Israel.

Had another Semitic people or other foreign entity claimed Palestine as Jews did, the local Palestinians would have risen up against them also.

This is about cultural identity and nationhood, not religious affiliation.

You are projecting. In this case, it is entirely about religion. The Palestinians would not have risen up against other Muslims. Israel is the only middle eastern country whose existence the Muslims generally object to, because of the Jews rising above their natural place.

You mean like Iran and Iraq, Iran and Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Saudi Arabia, Kurds against Iraq, Iran, Syria and Turkey?

Yes. We have Australian Muslims on this website preaching that Islam will inevitably reconquer Israel. They actually say the same thing about Spain. They consider the land to be owned by the religion. Not by a country or an ethnicity or some other ideology. By religion.

So, Muslims against Muslims, then.

I'm sure there are some who think Islam will rise again and the Islamic empire will be reconstituted, but they are the looney fringe.

The Islamic empire has as much chance of rising again as the Roman Empire does.

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MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 11134 Gender:	Re: Hamas attacks Israel again Reply #39 - Oct 8^th, 2023 at 12:00pm issuevoter wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 11:54am: I reiterate. The reason the Labor Government sides with the "Palestians" is because the USA and Britain support Israel Welcome to realpolitik.
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freediver

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel again
Reply #40 - Oct 8^th, 2023 at 12:05pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 11:59am:

freediver wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 11:49am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 11:11am:

freediver wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 11:02am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 10:51am:

freediver wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 10:29am:

Palestine did not exist as a country until Israel did. It is 100% about religion. The middle east was carved up however western countries wanted it. Most of the countries are very recent inventions. The locals got over it and moved on, until the Jews stepped out of line.

Religion is the marker by which most on each side identify themselves, not the reason for war.

I'd bet there are Palestinian Christians who stand with their Palestinian compatriots against Israel, as there may be Arab-Israelis who stand with Israel.

Had another Semitic people or other foreign entity claimed Palestine as Jews did, the local Palestinians would have risen up against them also.

This is about cultural identity and nationhood, not religious affiliation.

You are projecting. In this case, it is entirely about religion. The Palestinians would not have risen up against other Muslims. Israel is the only middle eastern country whose existence the Muslims generally object to, because of the Jews rising above their natural place.

You mean like Iran and Iraq, Iran and Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Saudi Arabia, Kurds against Iraq, Iran, Syria and Turkey?

Yes. We have Australian Muslims on this website preaching that Islam will inevitably reconquer Israel. They actually say the same thing about Spain. They consider the land to be owned by the religion. Not by a country or an ethnicity or some other ideology. By religion.

So, Muslims against Muslims, then.

I'm sure there are some who think Islam will rise again and the Islamic empire will be reconstituted, but they are the looney fringe.

The Islamic empire has as much chance of rising again as the Roman Empire does.

And yet it came very close to reality in the last decade.

You are again projecting on to Muslims. There is a very large and very dangerous level of support for all the backwards parts of Islam.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel again
Reply #41 - Oct 8^th, 2023 at 12:07pm

issuevoter wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 11:54am:

I reiterate. The reason the Labor Government sides with the "Palestians" is because the USA and Britain support Israel and this is why the Laborites can never admit its about religion, when they are generally antagonistic toward religion. So am I, but that's another subject.

This would explain why the ALP Government has come out today criticising Hamas's attack on Israel and why they have condemned it? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel again
Reply #42 - Oct 8^th, 2023 at 12:09pm

freediver wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 11:49am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 11:11am:

freediver wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 11:02am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 10:51am:

freediver wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 10:29am:

Palestine did not exist as a country until Israel did. It is 100% about religion. The middle east was carved up however western countries wanted it. Most of the countries are very recent inventions. The locals got over it and moved on, until the Jews stepped out of line.

Religion is the marker by which most on each side identify themselves, not the reason for war.

I'd bet there are Palestinian Christians who stand with their Palestinian compatriots against Israel, as there may be Arab-Israelis who stand with Israel.

Had another Semitic people or other foreign entity claimed Palestine as Jews did, the local Palestinians would have risen up against them also.

This is about cultural identity and nationhood, not religious affiliation.

You are projecting. In this case, it is entirely about religion. The Palestinians would not have risen up against other Muslims. Israel is the only middle eastern country whose existence the Muslims generally object to, because of the Jews rising above their natural place.

You mean like Iran and Iraq, Iran and Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Saudi Arabia, Kurds against Iraq, Iran, Syria and Turkey?

Yes. We have Australian Muslims on this website preaching that Islam will inevitably reconquer Israel. They actually say the same thing about Spain. They consider the land to be owned by the religion. Not by a country or an ethnicity or some other ideology. By religion.

We have? Where, whom? Evidence please, Freediver? Or you are talking bullshit again? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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John Smith

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel again
Reply #43 - Oct 8^th, 2023 at 1:19pm

freediver wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 8:31am:

John Smith wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 7:28am:

Frank wrote on Oct 7^th, 2023 at 7:28pm:

John Smith wrote on Oct 7^th, 2023 at 5:30pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 7^th, 2023 at 5:20pm:

Watch them bleat when Israel fights back.

They learnt that from the Israelis

But the idiots refuse to learn anything else, like how to make a flourishing, advanced country out of nothing but the effort of the people.

If Muslims could learn THAT, they would not be as ****ed as they are everywhere.

You might have a point except Israel has been blockading Gaza for decades, preventing the Palestinians any opportunities to thrive.

What does that mean?

Exactly what it says

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freediver

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel again
Reply #44 - Oct 8^th, 2023 at 1:21pm

John Smith wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 1:19pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 8:31am:

John Smith wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 7:28am:

Frank wrote on Oct 7^th, 2023 at 7:28pm:

John Smith wrote on Oct 7^th, 2023 at 5:30pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 7^th, 2023 at 5:20pm:

Watch them bleat when Israel fights back.

They learnt that from the Israelis

But the idiots refuse to learn anything else, like how to make a flourishing, advanced country out of nothing but the effort of the people.

If Muslims could learn THAT, they would not be as ****ed as they are everywhere.

You might have a point except Israel has been blockading Gaza for decades, preventing the Palestinians any opportunities to thrive.

What does that mean?

Exactly what it says

How does Israel stop Gaza trading with Egypt?

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