Dnarever wrote on Dec 29^th, 2023 at 9:31pm:


It is always hard to tell whether John is lying or merely confused. But he does seem to know which questions he has to tapdance around. I expect he thinks he is being cunning with his anti Jewish propaganda.

Fraudiver says:

"I have not misrepresented him (John Smith) at all. You are lying about what he said. He said daily. Do you understand what that means?"

Funny - the ultimate fraudster (or low IQ?), accusing me of "lying" about what JS said.

I'm assuming JS isn't actually saying Israel has killed 1 Palestinian every day for the last 17 years, but is referring to the average daily toll for  the last 17 years.

That's an assumption on my part, not a lie - can you  spot the difference?

Quote:


Obviously if you replace what he actually said with something he did not say, then he isn't lying. However, I was referring to what he actually said.

This isn't China you know.

Fraudiver writes:

Obviously if you replace what he actually said with something he did not say, then he isn't lying. However, I was referring to what he actually said.

This isn't China you know.

1. You said I was lying about what he said, I explained your first mistake.  I accept your concession.

2. As to whether JS is lying,  his post said  Israel has been "killing Palestinas daily for years". the UN stats show c. 6000 Palestinians killed and 300 Israelis killed since 2008, (roughly one Palestinian a day); but NOT including the figures from Oct. the 2023,  c. 20,000. 

https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties

The great irony of the tidal wave of anti-Jew invective that has come Stephen Fry’s way over the past 48 hours is that it has perfectly proved his point. He goes on TV to say we are witnessing a ‘rise in anti-Jewish racism’ and right away there’s a spike in anti-Jewish racism. Even before he’d finished his touching fireside homily on Jew hate, the Jew haters were out in force to ask: ‘Who the bugger does he think he is?’ A Jew on TV? At Christmas? Wanging on about the victimisation of Jews? Vomit emoji. That was literally the response of the army of arseholes that passes for the left these days, every one of them too dim to realise they were making Fry’s case for him.

Fry made his remarks on The Alternative Christmas Message on Channel 4. That’s the non-royal Christmas Day TV sermon, a little witty, a little right-on, in which a celeb is invited to hold forth on a hot issue the monarch is likely to overlook. Normally middle-class radicals lap it up, but not this time, because… oh you know why. The last thing they needed while tucking into their pigs in blankets was a lecture from one of those people who don’t even eat pigs. I swear they were more rattled by Fry than they were when Channel 4 invited then Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to give the alternative message in 2008. A literal Holocaust denier? What fun. A Jew concerned about anti-Semitism? Pass the remote.

Fry’s message was fair and benign. You’d have to be a frothing loon to object to it. He ‘came out’ as a Jew. He offered cold, hard facts. Since the Hamas pogrom of 7 October there have been 50 anti-Semitic incidents a day in London, he said. That’s an eye-watering 1,350 per cent rise in Jew-hate incidents. It’s the greatest rise in anti-Jewish racism in the UK since modern records began. He slammed the ‘venomous slurs’ heaped on Britain’s Jews in recent weeks. He made a plea for a return to the ‘decency’ our nation is famed for. And he ended on a note of Kumbaya. The ‘simple truth’, he said, is that ‘we are all brothers and sisters’: ‘It’s naive, but it’s as good a message as any other.’

Fry was slammed for ‘conflat[ing] anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism’. He didn’t do that. However, the spitting reaction to him rather suggested that anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism have merged. How else do we explain so-called anti-Zionists completely losing the plot over a critique of anti-Semitism? I find anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism indistinguishable these days. ‘It isn’t anti-Semitic to criticise Israel’, they say. Yeah, yeah, we know. You know what probably is anti-Semitic, though? Obsessively loathing Israel. Treating it as uniquely murderous. Damning it for its alleged bloodlust. Accusing it of exercising a malign influence over the Great Powers. All the things once said about the Jews – they’re all-controlling, love spilling blood, think they’re better than the rest of us – are now said of the Jewish State. Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism in woke drag.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/12/27/stephen-fry-and-the-rise-of-woke-anti-s...

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 30^th, 2023 at 11:47am:


Do you think that John Smith posted the truth?

no socialism - at least as the term would have been understood in 1905 when the then Australian Labour Party adopted the original Socialist Objective - is dead. It was always an extreme belief - the adoption of the Objective caused great damage to the ALP in the subsequent 1907 election. Lenin himself would not have succeeded without the calamity of WWI.

Somers Trail writes:

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Correct:  the whole world - even China - has adopted neoliberal free markets since the demise of the USSR.

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Again your premise is wrong, because you claimed the Left today still believe in "socialism". ("decades of dedication and activism"...)

'Lefty' Chalmers is about to cut taxes on the wealthy (in 'stage 3'), while denying above-poverty dole payment for those forced to lived on the dole...even whille the fool Bullock is trying to increase unemployment (by raisng interest rtates) to control inflation.   

"socialism" it ain't...