Australian Politics Forum - The human cost in Gaza

Karnal

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Re: The human cost in Gaza
Reply #60 - Oct 27^th, 2023 at 5:22pm

freediver wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 4:00pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 26^th, 2023 at 3:09pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 26^th, 2023 at 2:41pm:

It's not a cycle Bobby. If Gaza shoots, Israeli shoots back. If Gaza does not shoot, Israel does not shoot. The people of Gaza could end it any time they choose. The Israelis do not have that choice. The whole cycle thing is just a BS spiel used by Muslims to trick non-Muslims into thinking that something other than Islam is the root cause.

That's true but I can see the modus operandi of Hamas:

They hope to destroy Israel by using propaganda of innocent civilians - women and children
being murdered by Israeli air strikes to draw other Middle East countries into the war
to do the fighting for them.
It looks like Iran has taken the bait and has already opened a 2nd front in Lebanon.
Other countries all over the Middle East are going crazy about what they are seeing
24 hours a day on their TVs coming out of Gaza.

Congressmen in the USA are talking about destroying Iran's oil facilities -
great - just what we need after Russian oil has been cut off. Roll Eyes

Yes that is exactly what Hamas is trying to do. But you know what works better at attracting Muslim terrorists than the victimhood narrative? The success narrative. ISIS had a whiff of success about them for a period, and it attracted huge numbers of Muslims from all over the world to come and die for the case.

Either way. Israel still has to respond somehow.

Sir lastnail wrote on Oct 26^th, 2023 at 3:11pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 26^th, 2023 at 2:41pm:

It's not a cycle Bobby. If Gaza shoots, Israeli shoots back. If Gaza does not shoot, Israel does not shoot. The people of Gaza could end it any time they choose. The Israelis do not have that choice. The whole cycle thing is just a BS spiel used by Muslims to trick non-Muslims into thinking that something other than Islam is the root cause.

But what is Israel doing to the arabs that we are not being told about ?? Wink

Why do you feel the need to invent a Jewish conspiracy? There is no gap that need to be filled.

Hi FD, what do Palestinians need to do to become the next South Korea?

Cheers.

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Karnal

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Re: The human cost in Gaza
Reply #61 - Oct 27^th, 2023 at 5:25pm

Bobby. wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 4:20pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 4:00pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 26^th, 2023 at 3:09pm:

That's true but I can see the modus operandi of Hamas:

They hope to destroy Israel by using propaganda of innocent civilians - women and children
being murdered by Israeli air strikes to draw other Middle East countries into the war
to do the fighting for them.
It looks like Iran has taken the bait and has already opened a 2nd front in Lebanon.
Other countries all over the Middle East are going crazy about what they are seeing
24 hours a day on their TVs coming out of Gaza.

Congressmen in the USA are talking about destroying Iran's oil facilities -
great - just what we need after Russian oil has been cut off. Roll Eyes

Yes that is exactly what Hamas is trying to do. But you know what works better at attracting Muslim terrorists than the victimhood narrative? The success narrative. ISIS had a whiff of success about them for a period, and it attracted huge numbers of Muslims from all over the world to come and die for the case.

Either way. Israel still has to respond somehow.

I think Bibi has been sucked into this by Hamas - he is playing their game.

100s of little Palestinian kids are being killed every day.
The whole Arab and Persian world is up in arms and
will cause Israel to be attacked by them and may even lead to WW3.

I say, Bobby, did FD get the chance to tell you why those little Palestinian kids deserve to be collectively punished?

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freediver

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Re: The human cost in Gaza
Reply #62 - Oct 27^th, 2023 at 5:40pm

Karnal wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 5:22pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 4:00pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 26^th, 2023 at 3:09pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 26^th, 2023 at 2:41pm:

It's not a cycle Bobby. If Gaza shoots, Israeli shoots back. If Gaza does not shoot, Israel does not shoot. The people of Gaza could end it any time they choose. The Israelis do not have that choice. The whole cycle thing is just a BS spiel used by Muslims to trick non-Muslims into thinking that something other than Islam is the root cause.

That's true but I can see the modus operandi of Hamas:

They hope to destroy Israel by using propaganda of innocent civilians - women and children
being murdered by Israeli air strikes to draw other Middle East countries into the war
to do the fighting for them.
It looks like Iran has taken the bait and has already opened a 2nd front in Lebanon.
Other countries all over the Middle East are going crazy about what they are seeing
24 hours a day on their TVs coming out of Gaza.

Congressmen in the USA are talking about destroying Iran's oil facilities -
great - just what we need after Russian oil has been cut off. Roll Eyes

Yes that is exactly what Hamas is trying to do. But you know what works better at attracting Muslim terrorists than the victimhood narrative? The success narrative. ISIS had a whiff of success about them for a period, and it attracted huge numbers of Muslims from all over the world to come and die for the case.

Either way. Israel still has to respond somehow.

Sir lastnail wrote on Oct 26^th, 2023 at 3:11pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 26^th, 2023 at 2:41pm:

It's not a cycle Bobby. If Gaza shoots, Israeli shoots back. If Gaza does not shoot, Israel does not shoot. The people of Gaza could end it any time they choose. The Israelis do not have that choice. The whole cycle thing is just a BS spiel used by Muslims to trick non-Muslims into thinking that something other than Islam is the root cause.

But what is Israel doing to the arabs that we are not being told about ?? Wink

Why do you feel the need to invent a Jewish conspiracy? There is no gap that need to be filled.

Hi FD, what do Palestinians need to do to become the next South Korea?

Cheers.

Stop taking a knife to a gunfight.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 95991 Gender:	Re: The human cost in Gaza Reply #63 - Oct 27^th, 2023 at 5:57pm Quote: Stop taking a knife to a gunfight Sorry? Are you referring to the kiddies Israel's currently bombing in Gaza? What do you mean by a knife?
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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 95991 Gender:	Re: The human cost in Gaza Reply #64 - Oct 27^th, 2023 at 6:03pm Another question if I may, FD. You've often referred to Moh's 200 Jews killed in a day. Israel's now taking out that many kids every hour. Have you changed your position on Moh's actions, or have you just revised the criteria for genocide?
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tickleandrose

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Re: The human cost in Gaza
Reply #65 - Oct 27^th, 2023 at 6:15pm

Lets look at this war from practical point of view. Right now, Israel is bombing Gaza non stop, and its got over 300000 troops ready to go, tanks refueled. People have estimated, that so far, Israel would have spent between 1.5 to 2.1 billion US for the war effort. And this is a double edged sword, because most of the reservists would have day time jobs, and often are aged in their prime. So, there is this additional cost, plus loss of productivity. And this will cause huge economic problems for Israel going forward.

Noted, the method used by HAMAS is deliberately cruel. Which means, its aim is not to attack Israel per se. Because even with 1500 casualties, and 222 hostages, its not going to change the status quo. I believe, its goal is to draw the mighty Israel war machine into close quarter combat in ruined cities, using asymmetric tactics. It is not expecting any victory, but attempt to get the Israel armies involved enough to turn this in to a protracted campaign. This will drain away Israel's productivity, and put it into deep economic downturn. In many ways, this is like the Vietnam war, where the US had to win to win, but the Vietcoms does not have to win to win.

What happens in the next few weeks will be critical for Israel. If it draws into a protracted conflict, on background of higher oil prices, higher interest rates, higher inflation, and stagnation of US economy. Then, I am truly fearful for Israel as a nation.

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Bobby.

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Re: The human cost in Gaza
Reply #66 - Oct 27^th, 2023 at 6:35pm

freediver wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 4:55pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 4:20pm:

I think Bibi has been sucked into this by Hamas - he is playing their game.

100s of little Palestinian kids are being killed every day.
The whole Arab and Persian world is up in arms and
will cause Israel to be attacked by them and may even lead to WW3.

I don't expect the Israelis to die so we don't have to fret about WWIII. Even if everything you say is true, it has no value until you come up with a better plan.

A better plan would have been to go into Gaza with soldiers and tanks without
destroying the place by bombing it day and night.

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Setanta

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Re: The human cost in Gaza
Reply #67 - Oct 27^th, 2023 at 7:16pm

Karnal wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 5:22pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 4:00pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 26^th, 2023 at 3:09pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 26^th, 2023 at 2:41pm:

It's not a cycle Bobby. If Gaza shoots, Israeli shoots back. If Gaza does not shoot, Israel does not shoot. The people of Gaza could end it any time they choose. The Israelis do not have that choice. The whole cycle thing is just a BS spiel used by Muslims to trick non-Muslims into thinking that something other than Islam is the root cause.

That's true but I can see the modus operandi of Hamas:

They hope to destroy Israel by using propaganda of innocent civilians - women and children
being murdered by Israeli air strikes to draw other Middle East countries into the war
to do the fighting for them.
It looks like Iran has taken the bait and has already opened a 2nd front in Lebanon.
Other countries all over the Middle East are going crazy about what they are seeing
24 hours a day on their TVs coming out of Gaza.

Congressmen in the USA are talking about destroying Iran's oil facilities -
great - just what we need after Russian oil has been cut off. Roll Eyes

Yes that is exactly what Hamas is trying to do. But you know what works better at attracting Muslim terrorists than the victimhood narrative? The success narrative. ISIS had a whiff of success about them for a period, and it attracted huge numbers of Muslims from all over the world to come and die for the case.

Either way. Israel still has to respond somehow.

Sir lastnail wrote on Oct 26^th, 2023 at 3:11pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 26^th, 2023 at 2:41pm:

It's not a cycle Bobby. If Gaza shoots, Israeli shoots back. If Gaza does not shoot, Israel does not shoot. The people of Gaza could end it any time they choose. The Israelis do not have that choice. The whole cycle thing is just a BS spiel used by Muslims to trick non-Muslims into thinking that something other than Islam is the root cause.

But what is Israel doing to the arabs that we are not being told about ?? Wink

Why do you feel the need to invent a Jewish conspiracy? There is no gap that need to be filled.

Hi FD, what do Palestinians need to do to become the next South Korea?

Cheers.

Become Moonies?

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freediver

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Re: The human cost in Gaza
Reply #68 - Oct 27^th, 2023 at 7:32pm

Bobby. wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 6:35pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 4:55pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 4:20pm:

I think Bibi has been sucked into this by Hamas - he is playing their game.

100s of little Palestinian kids are being killed every day.
The whole Arab and Persian world is up in arms and
will cause Israel to be attacked by them and may even lead to WW3.

I don't expect the Israelis to die so we don't have to fret about WWIII. Even if everything you say is true, it has no value until you come up with a better plan.

A better plan would have been to go into Gaza with soldiers and tanks without
destroying the place by bombing it day and night.

Would you volunteer to be the cannon fodder?

tickleandrose wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 6:15pm:

Lets look at this war from practical point of view. Right now, Israel is bombing Gaza non stop, and its got over 300000 troops ready to go, tanks refueled. People have estimated, that so far, Israel would have spent between 1.5 to 2.1 billion US for the war effort. And this is a double edged sword, because most of the reservists would have day time jobs, and often are aged in their prime. So, there is this additional cost, plus loss of productivity. And this will cause huge economic problems for Israel going forward.

Noted, the method used by HAMAS is deliberately cruel. Which means, its aim is not to attack Israel per se. Because even with 1500 casualties, and 222 hostages, its not going to change the status quo. I believe, its goal is to draw the mighty Israel war machine into close quarter combat in ruined cities, using asymmetric tactics. It is not expecting any victory, but attempt to get the Israel armies involved enough to turn this in to a protracted campaign. This will drain away Israel's productivity, and put it into deep economic downturn. In many ways, this is like the Vietnam war, where the US had to win to win, but the Vietcoms does not have to win to win.

What happens in the next few weeks will be critical for Israel. If it draws into a protracted conflict, on background of higher oil prices, higher interest rates, higher inflation, and stagnation of US economy. Then, I am truly fearful for Israel as a nation.

Both sides have done it plenty of times before.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Bobby.

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Re: The human cost in Gaza
Reply #69 - Oct 27^th, 2023 at 7:38pm

freediver wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 7:32pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 6:35pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 4:55pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 4:20pm:

I think Bibi has been sucked into this by Hamas - he is playing their game.

100s of little Palestinian kids are being killed every day.
The whole Arab and Persian world is up in arms and
will cause Israel to be attacked by them and may even lead to WW3.

I don't expect the Israelis to die so we don't have to fret about WWIII. Even if everything you say is true, it has no value until you come up with a better plan.

A better plan would have been to go into Gaza with soldiers and tanks without
destroying the place by bombing it day and night.

Would you volunteer to be the cannon fodder?

Hamas don't have canons.
The last time Israel went into Gaza 2014 - Hamas ran like rabbits.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Gaza_War

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freediver

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Re: The human cost in Gaza
Reply #70 - Oct 27^th, 2023 at 7:44pm

Bobby. wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 7:38pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 7:32pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 6:35pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 4:55pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 4:20pm:

I think Bibi has been sucked into this by Hamas - he is playing their game.

100s of little Palestinian kids are being killed every day.
The whole Arab and Persian world is up in arms and
will cause Israel to be attacked by them and may even lead to WW3.

I don't expect the Israelis to die so we don't have to fret about WWIII. Even if everything you say is true, it has no value until you come up with a better plan.

A better plan would have been to go into Gaza with soldiers and tanks without
destroying the place by bombing it day and night.

Would you volunteer to be the cannon fodder?

Hamas don't have canons.
The last time Israel went into Gaza 2014 - Hamas ran like rabbits.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Gaza_War

You missed the point Bobby.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Bobby.

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Re: The human cost in Gaza
Reply #71 - Oct 27^th, 2023 at 7:47pm

freediver wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 7:44pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 7:38pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 7:32pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 6:35pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 4:55pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 4:20pm:

I think Bibi has been sucked into this by Hamas - he is playing their game.

100s of little Palestinian kids are being killed every day.
The whole Arab and Persian world is up in arms and
will cause Israel to be attacked by them and may even lead to WW3.

I don't expect the Israelis to die so we don't have to fret about WWIII. Even if everything you say is true, it has no value until you come up with a better plan.

A better plan would have been to go into Gaza with soldiers and tanks without
destroying the place by bombing it day and night.

Would you volunteer to be the cannon fodder?

Hamas don't have canons.
The last time Israel went into Gaza 2014 - Hamas ran like rabbits.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Gaza_War

You missed the point Bobby.

No I didn't - it's not my war to fight.
I just don't see the reason to turn Gaza into a pile of smoking rubble?
Over 45% of all buildings are destroyed before Israel has gone in.

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Karnal

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Re: The human cost in Gaza
Reply #72 - Oct 27^th, 2023 at 11:23pm

Setanta wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 7:16pm:

Karnal wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 5:22pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 4:00pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 26^th, 2023 at 3:09pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 26^th, 2023 at 2:41pm:

It's not a cycle Bobby. If Gaza shoots, Israeli shoots back. If Gaza does not shoot, Israel does not shoot. The people of Gaza could end it any time they choose. The Israelis do not have that choice. The whole cycle thing is just a BS spiel used by Muslims to trick non-Muslims into thinking that something other than Islam is the root cause.

That's true but I can see the modus operandi of Hamas:

They hope to destroy Israel by using propaganda of innocent civilians - women and children
being murdered by Israeli air strikes to draw other Middle East countries into the war
to do the fighting for them.
It looks like Iran has taken the bait and has already opened a 2nd front in Lebanon.
Other countries all over the Middle East are going crazy about what they are seeing
24 hours a day on their TVs coming out of Gaza.

Congressmen in the USA are talking about destroying Iran's oil facilities -
great - just what we need after Russian oil has been cut off. Roll Eyes

Yes that is exactly what Hamas is trying to do. But you know what works better at attracting Muslim terrorists than the victimhood narrative? The success narrative. ISIS had a whiff of success about them for a period, and it attracted huge numbers of Muslims from all over the world to come and die for the case.

Either way. Israel still has to respond somehow.

Sir lastnail wrote on Oct 26^th, 2023 at 3:11pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 26^th, 2023 at 2:41pm:

It's not a cycle Bobby. If Gaza shoots, Israeli shoots back. If Gaza does not shoot, Israel does not shoot. The people of Gaza could end it any time they choose. The Israelis do not have that choice. The whole cycle thing is just a BS spiel used by Muslims to trick non-Muslims into thinking that something other than Islam is the root cause.

But what is Israel doing to the arabs that we are not being told about ?? Wink

Why do you feel the need to invent a Jewish conspiracy? There is no gap that need to be filled.

Hi FD, what do Palestinians need to do to become the next South Korea?

Cheers.

Become Moonies?

Ah. Thanks, Setanta.

Is this right, FD? Should Palestinians develop economically by converting to Christianity?

Is this what you mean by Freeeeeedom?

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Karnal

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Re: The human cost in Gaza
Reply #73 - Oct 27^th, 2023 at 11:27pm

Bobby. wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 7:47pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 7:44pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 7:38pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 7:32pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 6:35pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 4:55pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 4:20pm:

I think Bibi has been sucked into this by Hamas - he is playing their game.

100s of little Palestinian kids are being killed every day.
The whole Arab and Persian world is up in arms and
will cause Israel to be attacked by them and may even lead to WW3.

I don't expect the Israelis to die so we don't have to fret about WWIII. Even if everything you say is true, it has no value until you come up with a better plan.

A better plan would have been to go into Gaza with soldiers and tanks without
destroying the place by bombing it day and night.

Would you volunteer to be the cannon fodder?

Hamas don't have canons.
The last time Israel went into Gaza 2014 - Hamas ran like rabbits.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Gaza_War

You missed the point Bobby.

No I didn't - it's not my war to fight.
I just don't see the reason to turn Gaza into a pile of smoking rubble?
Over 45% of all buildings are destroyed before Israel has gone in.

Ah. Thanks, Bobby.

Is this what you mean by Freeeedom, FD?

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Baronvonrort

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Re: The human cost in Gaza
Reply #74 - Oct 28^th, 2023 at 12:04am

Bobby. wrote on Oct 27^th, 2023 at 7:47pm:

Over 45% of all buildings are destroyed before Israel has gone in.

That's bullshit.

How many times has Hamas attacked Israel?

Did they fail to learn what happened in previous times or did the Iranian Ayatollah saying the Mahdi is near make them think Allah would help them this time?

If they don't do the job properly this time they will have to do it again in another couple of years.

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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