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The human cost in Gaza (Read 77829 times)
John Smith
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Re: The human cost in Gaza
Reply #975 - Nov 11th, 2023 at 4:34pm
 
Frank wrote on Nov 11th, 2023 at 11:45am:
John Smith wrote on Nov 11th, 2023 at 11:31am:
Did the Palestinians approve of Israel when it was shoved down their throats?



Did India, Persia, the Roman Empire approve of Islam when it was shoved down their throats? No.

Did Gazans approve of Hamas when they elected it to power?  Yes.



The Nazis were at least ashamed of what they were doing and tried to hide it. Not so the Muslims. They go after the Jews with gleeful barbarity everywhere, openly. It is a religious duty for Muslim, part of their personal Jihad for Allah.

https://twitter.com/DrEliDavid/status/1722891175105814982


Ohh, so you agree that eichart was stupid in suggesting it was ever a deterent
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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
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John Smith
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Re: The human cost in Gaza
Reply #976 - Nov 11th, 2023 at 4:38pm
 
Gordon wrote on Nov 11th, 2023 at 1:45pm:
Dnarever wrote on Nov 11th, 2023 at 1:20pm:
Yes we dodged one most likely. The Israelis have been the worst neighbours.

I like the idea but you could imagine them just keeping expanding into Australia till the Australian map looked like Palestine does today. Where Palestine have lost 75% of their land on top of what was the Israeli states original boundaries.

Israel still have plans to keep expanding into Palestinian territory with new settlements.


Name one war Israel as instigated.
Just one, dare ya.

You're just another garden variety racist who hides behind antizionism but you just hate Jews. 

Are you sticking blue stars on local shops yet, you nazi fool?



Ohhh, i agree, turdie, 6000 dead Palestinians in the last 17 yrs was hamas' fault.  How dare the Palestine civilians occupy their own lands  Roll Eyes
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Our esteemed leader:
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John Smith
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Re: The human cost in Gaza
Reply #977 - Nov 11th, 2023 at 4:41pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Nov 11th, 2023 at 3:19pm:
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/nov/10/palestine-and-israel-supp...


‘Deeply distressing’: premier condemns violence between
Palestine and Israel supporters over Melbourne burger bar fire



Jacinta Allan asks for increased police presence around Hawthorn Road after authorities break up scuffles near a synagogue close to where the Palestinian-owned burger shop was damaged by a blaze.

The Victorian premier has condemned the “deeply distressing” violence that erupted between pro-Palestine and pro-Israel protesters on Friday night, after a suspicious fire at a nearby burger shop in Melbourne’s south-east.

Jacinta Allan said she was briefed on the incident on Saturday morning by Victoria police, and asked for an increased police presence in area around Hawthorn Road in Caulfield.

A pro-Palestine group involved in a rally that led to the incident apologised to the Jewish community and said it should not have gathered at a location so close to a synagogue.

The opposition leader, Peter Dutton, claimed the decision to “provocatively protesting in an area home to many people of the Jewish faith was absolutely disgusting.”

The clash took place near Burgertory’s Caulfield store, which was severely damaged in a blaze on Friday morning.
Albanese has threaded a needle between the US and China. Now he needs to do the same on Israel-Hamas at home


Katharine Murphy


Police are treating the fire as suspicious but have said they do not think the blaze was religiously motivated.

Officers used pepper spray after fighting broke out between two groups each containing about 200 people.

“We cannot let violence in the Middle East beget violence on the streets of Melbourne,” Allan said.

“There is no place for violence, hatred or inciteful behaviour in Victoria – and it is unacceptable that faith communities feel unsafe at their own places of worship, and in their neighbourhoods.”


It doesn't matter bobbt, they were terrorists anyway... better some jew got them fist. Who knows how many innocent people were saved by this one brave jew.   Cheesy Cheesy
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tickleandrose
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Re: The human cost in Gaza
Reply #978 - Nov 11th, 2023 at 5:10pm
 
Gordon wrote on Nov 11th, 2023 at 1:45pm:
Dnarever wrote on Nov 11th, 2023 at 1:20pm:
Yes we dodged one most likely. The Israelis have been the worst neighbours.

I like the idea but you could imagine them just keeping expanding into Australia till the Australian map looked like Palestine does today. Where Palestine have lost 75% of their land on top of what was the Israeli states original boundaries.

Israel still have plans to keep expanding into Palestinian territory with new settlements.


Name one war Israel as instigated.
Just one, dare ya.

You're just another garden variety racist who hides behind antizionism but you just hate Jews. 

Are you sticking blue stars on local shops yet, you nazi fool?


Hi Gordon: 

On 09/04/1948, just weeks before the creation of State of Israel, a group of 130 militia entered a village called Deir Yassin - a small small of roughly around 600 near city of Jerusalem -  which at the time still under rule of British Mandate of Palestine.   This militia group killed 107 villagers, including women and children.  Seven of the villagers were killed whilst resisting, the rest in their homes. 

This attack were later found to be carried out by members of the Igrun and Stern Gang militias.  And this event is known as the Deir Yassin Massacre.   As news of the atrocities spread, thousands fled their villages in fear.   At the time, these two groups were designated as terorist groups.  Its leader, Mr Menachem Begin later became the 6th Prime Minister of Israel. 
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Gordon
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Re: The human cost in Gaza
Reply #979 - Nov 11th, 2023 at 5:19pm
 
tickleandrose wrote on Nov 11th, 2023 at 5:10pm:
Gordon wrote on Nov 11th, 2023 at 1:45pm:
Dnarever wrote on Nov 11th, 2023 at 1:20pm:
Yes we dodged one most likely. The Israelis have been the worst neighbours.

I like the idea but you could imagine them just keeping expanding into Australia till the Australian map looked like Palestine does today. Where Palestine have lost 75% of their land on top of what was the Israeli states original boundaries.

Israel still have plans to keep expanding into Palestinian territory with new settlements.


Name one war Israel as instigated.
Just one, dare ya.

You're just another garden variety racist who hides behind antizionism but you just hate Jews. 

Are you sticking blue stars on local shops yet, you nazi fool?


Hi Gordon: 

On 09/04/1948, just weeks before the creation of State of Israel, a group of 130 militia entered a village called Deir Yassin - a small small of roughly around 600 near city of Jerusalem -  which at the time still under rule of British Mandate of Palestine.   This militia group killed 107 villagers, including women and children.  Seven of the villagers were killed whilst resisting, the rest in their homes. 

This attack were later found to be carried out by members of the Igrun and Stern Gang militias.  And this event is known as the Deir Yassin Massacre.   As news of the atrocities spread, thousands fled their villages in fear.   At the time, these two groups were designated as terorist groups.  Its leader, Mr Menachem Begin later became the 6th Prime Minister of Israel. 



The massacre was condemned by the leadership of the Haganah, and the Jewish Agency for Palestine sent Jordan's King Abdullah a letter of apology,
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Re: The human cost in Gaza
Reply #980 - Nov 11th, 2023 at 5:20pm
 
Just curious, how many Jews live in Muslim countries.
How many Arabs live in Israel?
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IBI
 
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tickleandrose
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Re: The human cost in Gaza
Reply #981 - Nov 11th, 2023 at 5:44pm
 
Gordon wrote on Nov 11th, 2023 at 5:19pm:
tickleandrose wrote on Nov 11th, 2023 at 5:10pm:
Gordon wrote on Nov 11th, 2023 at 1:45pm:
Dnarever wrote on Nov 11th, 2023 at 1:20pm:
Yes we dodged one most likely. The Israelis have been the worst neighbours.

I like the idea but you could imagine them just keeping expanding into Australia till the Australian map looked like Palestine does today. Where Palestine have lost 75% of their land on top of what was the Israeli states original boundaries.

Israel still have plans to keep expanding into Palestinian territory with new settlements.


Name one war Israel as instigated.
Just one, dare ya.

You're just another garden variety racist who hides behind antizionism but you just hate Jews. 

Are you sticking blue stars on local shops yet, you nazi fool?


Hi Gordon: 

On 09/04/1948, just weeks before the creation of State of Israel, a group of 130 militia entered a village called Deir Yassin - a small small of roughly around 600 near city of Jerusalem -  which at the time still under rule of British Mandate of Palestine.   This militia group killed 107 villagers, including women and children.  Seven of the villagers were killed whilst resisting, the rest in their homes. 

This attack were later found to be carried out by members of the Igrun and Stern Gang militias.  And this event is known as the Deir Yassin Massacre.   As news of the atrocities spread, thousands fled their villages in fear.   At the time, these two groups were designated as terorist groups.  Its leader, Mr Menachem Begin later became the 6th Prime Minister of Israel. 



The massacre was condemned by the leadership of the Haganah, and the Jewish Agency for Palestine sent Jordan's King Abdullah a letter of apology,


I dont think Mr Begin himself ever apologized on his own behalf.  Nor any of those perpetrators were bought to justice.   And this massacre was not the only one.   The Irgun group itself carried out over 60 known attacks in the 1930s.   So these are seasoned terrorists and they are NOT sorry.   Grin  And there are other paramilitary groups like Lithi who carried out other terrorist attacks.  In fact, Mr Begin himself was denied a British passport due to his terrorist activities.  And mind you, those activities were conducted AGAINST the British Empire who had administrative rights over Palestine at the time.  So Gordon, you need to be clear when you pick a side.
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tickleandrose
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Re: The human cost in Gaza
Reply #982 - Nov 11th, 2023 at 5:45pm
 
Gordon wrote on Nov 11th, 2023 at 5:20pm:
Just curious, how many Jews live in Muslim countries.
How many Arabs live in Israel?


Well, in greater Israel, the map that the current PM was promoting a few months back.  It contains 7.3 million Jewish people, and 7.5 million Palestinians.    The 7.5 million Palestinians have no rights.  Otherwise, Israel will cease to be a Jewish homeland.  So be realistic. 
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Re: The human cost in Gaza
Reply #983 - Nov 12th, 2023 at 5:23am
 
tickleandrose wrote on Nov 11th, 2023 at 5:45pm:
Gordon wrote on Nov 11th, 2023 at 5:20pm:
Just curious, how many Jews live in Muslim countries.
How many Arabs live in Israel?


Well, in greater Israel, the map that the current PM was promoting a few months back.  It contains 7.3 million Jewish people, and 7.5 million Palestinians.    The 7.5 million Palestinians have no rights.  Otherwise, Israel will cease to be a Jewish homeland.  So be realistic. 



You lie:-

"Ethnic and religious minorities have full voting rights in Israel and are entitled to government benefits under various laws."


https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-know-about-arab-citizens-israel   Read what is written carefully - any of it sound familiar?

"Arabs comprise just over 20 percent of Israel’s population. The vast majority are citizens, while those in Jerusalem, which Israel claims as its capital, are considered “permanent residents.”
Arab citizens have the same legal rights as Jewish Israelis, but they tend to live in poorer cities, have less formal education, and face other challenges that some experts attribute to structural discrimination."
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: The human cost in Gaza
Reply #984 - Nov 12th, 2023 at 5:36am
 
https://decolonizepalestine.com/myth/all-israelis-are-equal/

So - why is it that, apparently like our Aborigines with their more than per capita representation in our Knesset, somehow these Arab Israelis feel they are disadvantaged and have no voice?  Why is it that they apparently cannot turn their political equality into reality on the ground, particularly when - just like here - they receive massive support from many in the rest of the political sphere?

Is it ...... you know .......... like a 'cultural thing'... to pursue a lower standard of education and social interaction and to commit crime and to hold your 'faith' as the right to rule and be a rabid theocracy instead of a democracy of equals and instead of being simple good citizens... you know... demand Freeeeeedom/Uhuru without civic responsibility... just 'their' 'freedom' to do ANYTHING they want?

Is it.. (heh, heh, heh) .. because by some abstruse reasoning they 'were here first' and thus instead of buckling down to a solid education etc, should simply be handed a fat lifestyle?  Watch out for the reality trap there.... get your facts - MOST of these 'Israeli Arabs' swarmed there when it was decided to create a Jewish Homeland (again) way back during WWI ....they're not even 'Originals' by that standard ...

What would YOU do with citizens of your small state like Israel is, who engage in hostile acts including bombings and terrorism and consider crime a part of their 'war' against the civilisation that feeds them?  Lick nuts at the UN in case they criticise you for imprisoning or expelling those bad eggs?

How facile it is to arbitrarily divide people into 'hawks' and 'doves' - great way to avoid addressing the real issues ....
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« Last Edit: Nov 12th, 2023 at 5:49am by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »  

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Frank
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Re: The human cost in Gaza
Reply #985 - Nov 12th, 2023 at 6:20am
 
Frank wrote on Nov 10th, 2023 at 4:44pm:
mothra wrote on Nov 10th, 2023 at 8:01am:
John Smith wrote on Nov 10th, 2023 at 7:47am:
Ohh look, the islamaphobes are still making excuses for the bombing of women and children Roll Eyes




Ozpol: Wrong side of history consistently.


Today's undergraduate miff: historicism.

Mother Frightbat knows the way history is unfolding, don't you know. Oh, yes.

She is on the 'right side of it", you see, pwogwessing nicely. Just don't ask where she is pwogwessing to. That is such a male, colonial, supremacist construct, goals. Reject such violently imposed settler colonial epistemologies. No.

Like orchids, it's all about the unfolding. The journey. Personal growth, social justice for all. That is the right side of history. She knows.



Which side of history are you on?  DOES history have sides?
Or do you have history on the side?

https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1657513247/11#11
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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
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Re: The human cost in Gaza
Reply #986 - Nov 12th, 2023 at 7:12am
 
tickleandrose wrote on Nov 11th, 2023 at 12:31pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 11th, 2023 at 11:17am:
tickleandrose wrote on Nov 11th, 2023 at 7:38am:
Over the past few days, I had being looking into the events around the time of formation of Israel.  It seemed that there was a plan to establish Israel in Australia, under something called The Kimberley Pan.    Basically, it was put forth by the Freeland league to resettle Jewish refugees.  A pastorist from WA offered up 16500 square KM for this.   Given what has happened in the middle east, I think we have dodged a bullet thanks to Curtin and Menzies! 

This was a plan that almost certainly could not have happened.

It would have taken a referendum to alter Australia's territorial integrity, which, of course, would have taken some time between proposal and putting it to the people - and with no guarantee at all that the people would approve it.

European Jews needed a place to settle immediately after the German surrender in 1945 - within months, not years.

Leaving that aside, it's almost certain that, had Israel been established in Western Australia, the Arabs would have had no animosity towards Jews, and may have even supported the Jewish state carved out from the Commonwealth.

However, how that state would have behaved over time would have likely been an issue. Would it want to expand its territories? Would it want involvement in Australian governance? Would it want a share of revenue from, say. mining and agricultural revenue?

Would this nation-state enter into alliances and treaties with foreign nation-states hostile to Australia or against the will of the Australian government?

etc... etc... etc...


And also Freediver

If its a model based on current Israel situation.  Then it will go something like this:  with establishment of new Israel in Western Australia, millions of Jewish refugees will be arriving through Darwin, before heading over to their designated homelands.   In order to facilitate this, the newly established Jewish government will ask the Australian government to annex Darwin as well.  The settlements would grow, leading to displacement of local aborigines and also white pastorialists. 

In the Eastern states.  PM John Curtin would lose the next election in a landslide, as anti - Jewish sentiments in Australia worsens.  However, due to the remote locality of the new Jewish state, tension are largely contained initially.  There would be also growing mistrust in the community against the USA and USSR, the two state that facilitated this solution. 

Tension will then boil over in the next few years, with discovering of large deposits of mineral wealth in WA.  For greater Australia, they will see Jewish settlers as invaders, who now have their hands on enormous amount of mineral wealth.  For the Jewish Settlers, this is their first and only homeland in centuries, and are fighting for their own survival.  These will then lead to conflict and war. 

And then in terms of alliance.   It is difficult to say.   Reading from reaction of alot people here on this forum, and in the general community... I'd just be blunt.  Right now, on TV, its Palestinian women and children are being killed.  They are not white, and they are (mostly) Muslim.  And so, alot of people in Western society - or at least core group of people that matters - dont really care!  Now.... if its white blonde hair, blue eyed Christian women and babies being killed by Israel bomb... I cant help to think that the Western response... would be alot different.    What do you all think? 


We have plenty of Jewish immigrants. They never tried to annex or create a separate state. They never have in the last 1000 years, despite being refugees over and over again. Not even in the middle east. There was an absence of a state there. They filled it with a liberal democracy.

This is one of the more absurd anti-Jewish conspiracy theories I have heard. It's pretty much the exact opposite of what you see them do.
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Re: The human cost in Gaza
Reply #987 - Nov 12th, 2023 at 7:29am
 
Re Freediver

My senario was to question what happens if Israel were to be established in Australia, under the Kimberly plan.  If any critism exist, it is towards the government, not the actual people.   I believe, that in any conflict, it is the politicians who benefits while the people suffers.   As I mentioned before, Israel cannot be considered a liberal democracy.   On Israel land, including the occupied territory, there are 7.3 million Jewish people, and 7.5 million palestinians.  Those 7.5 million Palestinians have no right, and are living in squalors.  That is not actions of a liberal democracy.  An UN report prepared in 2018, specified clearly that:

For the past 54 years, Israeli authorities have facilitated the transfer of Jewish Israelis to the OPT and granted them a superior status under the law as compared to Palestinians living in the same territory when it comes to civil rights, access to land, and freedom to move, build, and confer residency rights to close relatives. While Palestinians have a limited degree of self-rule in parts of the OPT, Israel retains primary control over borders, airspace, the movement of people and goods, security, and the registry of the entire population, which in turn dictates such matters as legal status and eligibility to receive identity cards.

https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution

I am sorry Freediver, but your dreams of liberal democratic Israel does not exist for everyone.
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Re: The human cost in Gaza
Reply #988 - Nov 12th, 2023 at 7:44am
 
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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Re: The human cost in Gaza
Reply #989 - Nov 12th, 2023 at 8:47am
 
What am I seeing in the flattened background of Gaza when a reporter was talking on camera… the beach… a nice sea scenery…. ready for takeover/new occupation with newly built beach front mansions.
Am I looking in a crystal ball? Is this why the ordinary citizens are constantly warned to leave, being bombed, blowing up their residences and towns and shops and… oh the hospitals … are the hospitals even safe?
They are asking whilst holding their injured/bleeding children, what have they done, why are they being punished like this? They just wanted to live in peace. But that’s really asking for too much.

There was even a bs story saying Hamas beheading babies, it’s not true… and leaders of Hamas came forth to say so.

I can’t understand why I’m feeling sorry for the people of Gaza and hubby says they started it by poking the bear. He says to me… how would you feel if our daughter was at a concert and then kidnapped?

I’m torn… and now….in my own birthplace Melbourne Au we are having troubles between Palestinians and Jews.
That burger place was bombed and the owners think it was racially motivated. The cops are saying it’s not. Don’t assume. But I ask… how would the cops know… were they there to witness it?
After all… it’s a bit of a coincidence happening at this point in time of unrest in Melbourne.

I wish both sides would show the world togetherness rather than division. That’s what I would have hoped our country stood for.
Tell me I’m dreaming’   Embarrassed
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